Melee combat in v0.701

[jrawlings]

I fired up v0.701 last night and started a new character. As always, one of the first things I do is go through the training. With this new version, the melee combat got much more difficult. In v0.700 it wasn't that difficult due to the rapid swing exploit. Now that this is no longer available, the champion level got downright difficult! I went in with a squire, and by the time I was taking on champions, I was level 2. Anyway, at the time, I was winning maybe 1 out of 3 fights (playing on Normal damage/Good AI). It was clear to me that the AI could put together swing combos much faster than I could, especially block/swing combos. I finally got through the round by forgoing any blocking and staying patient, waiting for the AI to charge me, with an attack ready, as soon as they lifted their blade/shield from the block position, I'd let loose with my attack. Rinse, repeat to victory.

Anyone want to post some other tactics to use for newbie melee fighters to use in v0.701 in training, or in melee combat in general?

 

[ThVaz]

I find champion fights in the training much harder too. They feint like crazy, and I just can't click the mouse fast enough to avoid being hit.
What you did tough I think it's a bit of a exploit
I think the AI always have the need of attck you - its primary worry is to dealt damage to you, and not to avoid damage to itself. So it WILL attack you nonetheless, but if it didn't the combat will never end (both would wait the other to attack first).
I hope you understand what I mean

 

[Lhorkan]

I won by thrusting my 2hander/staff (barely got sword and shield) right in their exposed bodies when they were thumping the air with their short swords.

 

[sheek]

I thought the melee fighting was very easy. I did the whole championship (from novice to champion) repeating only two battles. This was on high AI normal damage too.

 

[jrawlings]

I thought the melee fighting was very easy. I did the whole championship (from novice to champion) repeating only two battles. This was on high AI normal damage too.

Maybe you could tell us your secret? Against me, the champion fighters could run circles around me if they wanted and were definitely much faster in striking me. For example, if the AI blocks my attack, the AI could swing and hit me before I could attack again. If I block the AI's attack and then try to counterattack, they'd hit me before I complete the swing. Also, they are better at using the different swing types more effectively, going from an overhead block to a side swing with much more ease/speed than I ever could.

 

[Jhaerik]

Ya know, is it just me, or do you guys have a feeling armagan uses the training matches to test AI?

Honestly, the training matches are great fun, and they have better AI by far if you ask me.

 

[okiN]

jrawlings, the best offense is a good defence. Keep sharp and block all attacks, don't fall for feints and wait for a window. Then strike like a cobra.

 

[Dorian]

Just run around blocking and try to place your enemy in a corner. Once they are in a corner, they're dead. Just do overhead swings, you'll rarely need to block.
Pressing the "next shield" button while holding the right mouse button will make you change your defense. So, if they pretend to do a left slash and you block, but they feint and change to an overhead swing. Press "next shield" and you will change your defense to block their overhead swing..

 

[boyracer]

I found the training a lot tougher - I was yelling and swearing at my computer a lot more than before. They certainly swing much faster than you so you have to be patient to slip through their guard.

Excellent whatever Armagan did!

 

[yehrom]

Nice news about "next shield" apply, Dorian.
^^

Champions have faster action than your character,
if you just use crude-action, not easy to have a open to attack.
But you can compensate, using the mouse to drive your attack.
(Same way like with key, naturally)
That give your character a speed-bonus in his move...


----------------
Yes, the training is now like a little jewel.

 

[Mage246]

I had a harder time in .700 than I did in .701..... It seems to me like combat has gone back to the way it was in .632, and now I pretty much dominate the training courses. Basically, if you've got a weapon with alot of reach, use that to strike at your opponent while he is out of range (or at least time your backstepping so that you can charge him right after his first swing misses you). If you have the sword and shield, just try to charge your opponent into the corner, then just rain blows down upon him until he dies. I lost only 2 training matches, one against a veteran who spawned behind me ( ), and the other to a champion who I somehow managed to miss with several attacks that I thought should have hit. Just never give your opponent the chance to hit you, and the training is very easy.

 

[jrawlings]

Just run around blocking and try to place your enemy in a corner. Once they are in a corner, they're dead. Just do overhead swings, you'll rarely need to block.
Pressing the "next shield" button while holding the right mouse button will make you change your defense. So, if they pretend to do a left slash and you block, but they feint and change to an overhead swing. Press "next shield" and you will change your defense to block their overhead swing..

"Next shield button" I didn't see that. I'm not where I can play the game now, where is this button, and is there a hot key for it?

 

[jrawlings]

jrawlings, the best offense is a good defence. Keep sharp and block all attacks, don't fall for feints and wait for a window. Then strike like a cobra.

Forgive me if I ask a question that's been asked too many times before, but are the arrows that appear around your enemy the direction that they are swinging, or the direction you should press to block the swing?

 

[Mage246]

Next shield is automatically mapped as the "]" button (next to the next weapon button "["). I personally remapped it to my 6 button mouse, so I can switch weapons and shield more easily.

 

[Mage246]

jrawlings, the best offense is a good defence. Keep sharp and block all attacks, don't fall for feints and wait for a window. Then strike like a cobra.

Forgive me if I ask a question that's been asked too many times before, but are the arrows that appear around your enemy the direction that they are swinging, or the direction you should press to block the swing?

The arrow will be the direction of YOUR swing. IE if the arrow is pointing up you will do an overhead slash, if it is down you will attempt to thrust, and either side will do a horizontal slash.

 

[DakHam]

I don't know, I think that even with the enhancements to the enemy melee AI it's still rather easy at champion level, good AI, full damage. Before, when I was new to the game, even the novices gave me trouble. It's really only experience. The enemy will feint like crazy, the only thing you can do is watch them, until you see them swing, and then block, or parry. Another tactic that I've found that's worked for me is to hold your weapon in thrust (if applicable), while running forwards towards the enemy. He should be backpedaling; let him. When he gets redicuously far away due to his higher athletics, stop, and let him come towards you. When he lowers his guard to attack, then release your attack. Well, this is coming from a guy who abuses the tournament + quit without saving option.

 

[namster]

i do notice one minor difference. In combat I cannot follow a jump with another jump without swinging my weapon.

looking forward to looking at changes in 0.702.
or may be wait until all of your have tinkered with it and armagan has updated it

I suspect a few more shakes and rattles will have to be worked out...

 

[LetterAfterZ]

i do notice one minor difference. In combat I cannot follow a jump with another jump without swinging my weapon.

looking forward to looking at changes in 0.702.
or may be wait until all of your have tinkered with it and armagan has updated it

I suspect a few more shakes and rattles will have to be worked out...

Yeah, you'll notice the same thing with a horse too. You need speed up first and because a jump slows you, you need to move after the jump to get your speed back up. Good realistic feature IMO

 

[Don Quichot]

Shees, I was just about to post a major complaint on how ridiculously easy the game has become. I've installed v0701 from v0632 and I've plowed through training and about 20 arena fights without getting defeated..... And I can say I'm not really all that skilled. Plus what really totally ANOYS the crap out of me is that you can not damage mounted knight until their horse is dead. THAT S*CKS. It really ruins any footman character that i love to play so much.........................

 

[Elias_Maluco]

Shees, I was just about to post a major complaint on how ridiculously easy the game has become. I've installed v0701 from v0632 and I've plowed through training and about 20 arena fights without getting defeated..... And I can say I'm not really all that skilled. Plus what really totally ANOYS the crap out of me is that you can not damage mounted knight until their horse is dead. THAT S*CKS. It really ruins any footman character that i love to play so much.........................

Upgrade to 0.702 first, it seens like its harder now (havent tried myself yet). And you still can damage the mounted enemy jumping, but I agree that I liked better the way it was.