Medicine most OP skill in the game

[Sweynforkbeard]

It's incredibly easy and I do this part all the time. You can always access the clan parties in your army before launching the attack (or battle)and you can always access them again before moving or waiting on the map after a siege or battle. This also stops clan parties from putting troops into a garrison you can't access. It's the retaining or collecting the injured that I find too tedious to do often.

How? Just tried and I cannot access an option to talk to them while in a siege camp?

Edit. Scratch that, now I can. Ehh, and now I can not! Ok, this is weird. Seems like sometimes it acts as if my clanparty leader is too fare away and other times not.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

How? Just tried and I cannot access an option to talk to them while in a siege camp?

You click their picture, here I did it today

 

[Sweynforkbeard]

You click their picture, here I did it today

Yeah, I get that.

Its just, as I note above, sometimes it acts as if they are not near despite being there.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Yeah, I get that.

Its just, as I note above, sometimes it acts as if they are not near despite being there.

Oh yeah the old bug where they stay in a town and then magically teleport to you(but you can't talk to them)? That's annoying but I don't see it happen that much. It seems to go away after sometime but if I notice it I'll re-load, seems to trigger from going into a town sometimes.

 

[Sweynforkbeard]

Oh yeah the old bug where they stay in a town and then magically teleport to you(but you can't talk to them)? That's annoying but I don't see it happen that much. It seems to go away after sometime but if I notice it I'll re-load, seems to trigger from going into a town sometimes.

I tried it a few times more, with success, so, your method should work, at the very least, most of the time.

Yeah, I get that.

Its just, as I note above, sometimes it acts as if they are not near despite being there.

Two comments.

1) why do you keep so many prisoners in your party, it would take ages to convert that many anyway?
2) granted you run with a much smaller army than I would so the difference will not be terribly large, but you could probably still get a litte extra speed out of disbanding and reassembling your army after each siege so you dont have to travel from siege to siege in an army.

 

[thomas13]

So, I gave this a shot and it definitely didn't reach 275 in two years. I'm floating around 217 at 1086 and it will probably be another two years before it maxes, at the current rate of gain.

Are you sure you aren't running any XP or leveling mods? Alternatively, how many troops are you losing, typically?

I run on bannerlord difficulty and I have never installed or played mods ever. What kind of troops do you run and what kind of battles do you seek out? Once you get doctors oath and shield medic take advantage of sieges. I'm serious siege defenses are the best for big medicine gains because you can take on armies 4/5/6/7 times your size and win.

Strat gaming did a video on this a few months ago after the 1.8 patch. He found that it takes 2255 injuries and 558 deaths to reach 275. This is entirely viable to reach in the normal course of battling. You just can't be afraid to lose troops especially if they are just injuries. But you don't need to needlessly sacrifice them either.

I run with fian champs and high tier infantry (faction of infantry makes no difference). Most of my losses are from infantry in battles but sieges I'll lose some archers usually. Most people just hunt lords when they're trying to get renown to get clan tier 4. I don't. I hunt lords only in the very beginning when I'm recruiting and upgrading my troops. Once my troops (mostly my archers) are fully upgraded. I go army hunting because that's how you gain renown very fast and medicine very fast. Fighting outnumbered is the fastest way to boost renown and medicine. I routinely gain max renown from this strategy. Max renown gain from a single battle or siege is 90. If anyone wants the screenshots to prove this let me know. This is why I never understood why people complain about renown gain grind cause renown gain is actually pretty easy if you do it right.

To answer you question about losses. From battles I'll lose around 5-20 troops to deaths mostly infantry and depending on the size of the battle/siege 30-150 injuries. But the injuries really depends on how big the army/garrison I'm attacking or defending against. From battles the numbers deaths/injuries aren't very high. Sieges are great because you can force the enemy town/castle into using catapults which helps get you a lot of high tier troop injuries and few deaths. I seek out ways to gain max renown while also situations that will get me a lot injuries.

The other important factor is the reason I like fians and infantry is because I can set them and forget them. This allows my character to get a lot kills which helps me level faster. My observation is that when people use Khan's guard and RTS mod they are so focused on microing their troops that they aren't getting kills themselves which slows down their characters ability to level up fast. Plus, people can become obsessed with losing as little troops as possible. I like losing as few troops as possible but at the same time I'm not afraid of losing troops as long as my party strength stays viable.

It's all a matter of playstyles. For medicine you have to tailor your playstyle to get it fast. Most people are unwilling to do this. But I'm telling you it's an incredibly fun and rewarding style to play.

 

[Ichon]

It's incredibly easy and I do this part all the time. You can always access the clan parties in your army before launching the attack (or battle)and you can always access them again before moving or waiting on the map after a siege or battle. This also stops clan parties from putting troops into a garrison you can't access. It's the retaining or collecting the injured that I find too tedious to do often.

Yep, same thing goes for prisoners. Always take ALL prisoners then keep only 2-3 groups of the specific troops you want and either donate or distribute the remaining prisoners as the dungeon is usually full after a victorious siege but you can recruit a constant stream of high tier troops if your charm is decent by only keeping 2 groups of prisioners. Usually 2 volunteers a day and only lose .1 or less map speed so long as your prisoners total numbers are less than 50% of your prisoner cap.

 

[thomas13]

Well, in my lastest campaign (fian based) I am late 1086, day 190 more preciesly, and have conquered 20 towns and 24 castles. So roughly 37% of all fiefs/the map.

My 7(5) healer is at 256 medicine.

My campaign before (infantry based) I ended late 1087, day 290, and had conquered 24 towns and 26 castles.

In that campaign I was the healer with 8(5) and had reached a whooping 262 medicine.


It is really hard to see how, even with 10(5), you would get medicine (275) at a point where it is still going to make even the slightest bid of a difference. On top of that there are other basic issues. In the archer based case I am on lvl 37 after 190 days whereas going no ranged left me at lvl 36 after 290 days. So, not particularly levelling friendly either.

So, short of intentionally going out of your way to get your men killed, which is hardly the best way of progressing, its probably not going to happen.

Can you paint the map quickly without medicine? Yes. If your goal is to conquer the map as quickly as possible then your character doesn't need to have medicine personally to do it. The main point of my post was to point out that medicine 275 is a viable and incredibly fun and strong option that can be achieved without needlessly sacrificing troops to do it.

Personally the fact that people can paint the map so quickly and easily is more of an issue than medicine taking longer to develop. I'd say at least 70-80% of all fiefs are pathetic and can be taken with 150 good men especially if you use archers and can bypass the siege mechanics. But even without bypassing siege mechanics it's still too easy to take fiefs.

Sure they could give us more useful smaller perks earlier that the player could take advantage of but that still doesn't change the fact that painting the map is still too easy.

Regardless, medicine 275 is viable and incredibly strong for most people who aren't trying to speed run every playthrough.

 

[Sweynforkbeard]

Can you paint the map quickly without medicine? Yes. If your goal is to conquer the map as quickly as possible then your character doesn't need to have medicine personally to do it. The main point of my post was to point out that medicine 275 is a viable and incredibly fun and strong option that can be achieved without needlessly sacrificing troops to do it.

Personally the fact that people can paint the map so quickly and easily is more of an issue than medicine taking longer to develop. I'd say at least 70-80% of all fiefs are pathetic and can be taken with 150 good men especially if you use archers and can bypass the siege mechanics. But even without bypassing siege mechanics it's still too easy to take fiefs.

Sure they could give us more useful smaller perks earlier that the player could take advantage of but that still doesn't change the fact that painting the map is still too easy.

Regardless, medicine 275 is viable and incredibly strong for most people who aren't trying to speed run every playthrough.

You said it best yourself.

"But I'm telling you it's an incredibly fun and rewarding style to play."

Does that sound like something that should be considered a problem in a game? No, clearly not

 

[thomas13]

You said it best yourself.

"But I'm telling you it's an incredibly fun and rewarding style to play."

Does that sound like something that should be considered a problem in a game? No, clearly not

What is you point? You think the map should be easy to take?

 

[Sweynforkbeard]

What is you point? You think the map should be easy to take?

The premiss of this thread is that the 275 perk in medicine is OP. The only thing that I have argued is that it is not a particularly useful perk ergo it hardly qualify as being OP. That is all.

Basically, I see no reason for it to be nerfed/that you should be denied an option to play in a way that is fun for you. We really should not be at odds here.

 

[thomas13]

The premiss of this thread is that the 275 perk in medicine is OP. The only thing that I have argued is that it is not a particularly useful perk ergo it hardly qualify as being OP. That is all.

Basically, I see no reason for it to be nerfed/that you should be denied an option to play in a way that is fun for you. We really should not be at odds here.

I never said or implied it should be nerfed. All I said is that I think it's the strongest of all the final perks and one that is under utilized. You're right we shouldn't be at odds and yet we are.

What you're really saying is that you like to speed run playthroughs and its not useful for you. That's fine. But it doesn't mean it won't useful for the majority of players.

People see the term OP in a title and rush to judgement without actually reading what's in the body of a post. I think that's the case here.

 

[Sweynforkbeard]

People see the term OP in a title and rush to judgement without actually reading what's in the body of a post. I think that's the case here.

I mean you are probably right.

What the OP really just wanted to do was basically to share his fancy for this particular perk; in perhaps a slightly offensive manner (he didnt really want anyone to contradict him, people rarely do)

 

[thomas13]

I mean you are probably right.

What the OP really just wanted to do was basically to share his fancy for this particular perk; in perhaps a slightly offensive manner (he didnt really want anyone to contradict him, people rarely do)

Ahh so you're real issue is my wording. Tell me I'm wrong... I welcome it..

It was meant to start a conversation. It appears it worked. As far as it being slightly offensive.. I don't see that at all. I'm just confident in what I know and I'm fully prepared to defend that against people who don't read threads and rush to judgement then flip flop because they have a difficult time admitting when they're wrong.

 

[Apocal]

I run on bannerlord difficulty and I have never installed or played mods ever. What kind of troops do you run and what kind of battles do you seek out? Once you get doctors oath and shield medic take advantage of sieges. I'm serious siege defenses are the best for big medicine gains because you can take on armies 4/5/6/7 times your size and win.

I usually run an all-mounted party (solo), deaths in battles amount to around 2-5, generally, against lord parties in size from 60-120.

I've never been involved in a siege defense in the course of a regular playthrough.

edit:

To answer you question about losses. From battles I'll lose around 5-20 troops to deaths mostly infantry and depending on the size of the battle/siege 30-150 injuries. But the injuries really depends on how big the army/garrison I'm attacking or defending against. From battles the numbers deaths/injuries aren't very high. Sieges are great because you can force the enemy town/castle into using catapults which helps get you a lot of high tier troop injuries and few deaths. I seek out ways to gain max renown while also situations that will get me a lot injuries.

Yeeeeah... this just about counts as throwing away troops -- or, more accurately, my real-life time -- away to me. And the part about forcing the enemy into using catapults is not exactly a normal way of playing.

 

[thomas13]

I usually run an all-mounted party (solo), deaths in battles amount to around 2-5, generally, against lord parties in size from 60-120.

I've never been involved in a siege defense in the course of a regular playthrough.

edit:

Yeeeeah... this just about counts as throwing away troops -- or, more accurately, my real-life time -- away to me. And the part about forcing the enemy into using catapults is not exactly a normal way of playing.

Too bad there isn't an award voted by your troops for best make believe commander.

I'm sorry to hear that. You're missing out.

There is no normal way of playing the game.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

1) why do you keep so many prisoners in your party, it would take ages to convert that many anyway?

At this time I destroyed a large 1k+ army to start the war and immediately go to siege this fief so these are all left over from that and they will be put in the fief at siege end for a large influence bump. In my own party I have only lords (they cannot escape)and 1-3 stacks of troops to recruit, but a large stack of 1 unit is good for consistent recruiting, you can save them up forever too and pop them in whenever. At this point in the game I will likely never recruit troops for anything but garrison fillers as I move and all my troops are either my original troops or prisoner free-bees. It is full killdozer mode with no stopping.

2) granted you run with a much smaller army than I would so the difference will not be terribly large, but you could probably still get a litte extra speed out of disbanding and reassembling your army after each siege so you dont have to travel from siege to siege in an army.

Killdozer needs no speed, only kill. But 1: other clans will summon them 2: They increase camp build speed so it makes up for less movement, even if a much smaller party could handle the siege. 3 The amount of horses is shared handled with you whole army so abruptly dropping them can cause herd penalties.

you can recruit a constant stream of high tier troops if your charm is decent

It's leadership but yeah I agree, the speed loss is nominal compared to the utility of constant high tier troops.

Too bad there isn't an award voted by your troops for best make believe commander.

Oh is that so?

Spoiler: Thomas gets an attention upgrade

https://tw.greywool.com/i/2H4GN.png

I usually run an all-mounted party (solo), deaths in battles amount to around 2-5, generally, against lord parties in size from 60-120.

I've never been involved in a siege defense in the course of a regular playthrough.

 

[Apocal]

Too bad there isn't an award voted by your troops for best make believe commander.

It isn't a skill thing. It's me not wasting my own time running around getting more cavalry. I'm pretty much agnostic on troop types (Are you riding a horse? Yes? You're in!) but it isn't really fun going around from settlement to settlement. That's why I was skeptical you could get to Medicine 275 without taking big (25% of your party or more) losses in every fight.

Oh is that so?

mrw:

 

[thomas13]

Oh is that so?

About as clownish as someone who gets zero views on their livestreams.

It isn't a skill thing. It's me not wasting my own time running around getting more cavalry. I'm pretty much agnostic on troop types (Are you riding a horse? Yes? You're in!) but it isn't really fun going around from settlement to settlement. That's why I was skeptical you could get to Medicine 275 without taking big (25% of your party or more) losses in every fight.

mrw:

Whatever you have to tell yourself to stroke your own ego. Loser.

 

[Sweynforkbeard]

At this time I destroyed a large 1k+ army to start the war and immediately go to siege this fief so these are all left over from that and they will be put in the fief at siege end for a large influence bump. In my own party I have only lords (they cannot escape)and 1-3 stacks of troops to recruit, but a large stack of 1 unit is good for consistent recruiting, you can save them up forever too and pop them in whenever. At this point in the game I will likely never recruit troops for anything but garrison fillers as I move and all my troops are either my original troops or prisoner free-bees. It is full killdozer mode with no stopping.

Ok, no running around with a huge stack normally

Killdozer needs no speed, only kill. But 1: other clans will summon them 2: They increase camp build speed so it makes up for less movement, even if a much smaller party could handle the siege. 3 The amount of horses is shared handled with you whole army so abruptly dropping them can cause herd penalties.

Ok, so you try to match the number of horses to your entire army, I guess that makes sense (actually pretty clever really). I bring larger numbers to keep the camp building time down so I have to compensate by splitting up the army to cut travel time.