Medicine most OP skill in the game

Users who are viewing this thread

fragonard

Grandmaster Knight
WB
It really depends on your playstyle. I hate being wounded or losing troops so my medicine is slow to level. I had Steward at 275 before medicine 50. Medicine will never work for me. Charm is easy for me just from custom smithing orders, never miss one and they give lots of charm points.
 

Sweynforkbeard

Sergeant at Arms
It really depends on your playstyle. I hate being wounded or losing troops so my medicine is slow to level. I had Steward at 275 before medicine 50. Medicine will never work for me. Charm is easy for me just from custom smithing orders, never miss one and they give lots of charm points.
Just plain old school "catch and releash" is fine for levelling charm.
 

anoddhermit

Sergeant at Arms
Best way to level charm is to take the perk that returns influence when a proposal you voted for fails.

Just spend max influence on proposals that will fail, you get lots of rep and tons of charm XP.

Also, for medicine, I think the perk that makes med skill work on enemy troops as well makes it level way faster.


I do think they're a little imbalanced as perks, since they seem like must haves for leveling the respective skill.
 

diehold

Recruit
No, I actually have absolutely no clue what you are trying to say.

They do not level the same. There is still a long way to go from 229 to 275 let alone 278. It is hardly a slight difference.

Anyway, from my perspective its just not a perk you(I) will get within a timeframe where it still holds any relevance. So, no, I dont personally think it is overpowered.
I'm saying that they both level at relatively the same pace. One might be a little bit faster or slower than the other but they level relatively the same if you tailor your playstyle to one or the other. You're still not getting either until late game. For example if I want to level charm but I don't like smithing or catching and releasing prisoners, charm will take awhile. But regardless of leveling speed the rewards from 275 medicine by far outweigh level 275 charm. 275 charm is only valuable if you're merc otherwise that extra influence is meaningless.

It really depends on your playstyle. I hate being wounded or losing troops so my medicine is slow to level. I had Steward at 275 before medicine 50. Medicine will never work for me. Charm is easy for me just from custom smithing orders, never miss one and they give lots of charm points.
That's fair it doesn't mix with your playstyle. But you still can't deny 275 medicine is by far the most powerful 275 perk in the game.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
Well, I'll say the doctors oath giving medicine skill is a God Send for leveling medicine. Without that it was just not goin to happen and the game would end with my medics having gone from 120-150 or so. However it still comes in too late to be very useful or impactful in the game. In warband surgery is much better because you can quickly get the max level on you MC and have the full benefit the whole game, preserving more of your best troops early when it matters most. In Bannerlord, it's nice to get 275+ medicine but by then you're so good and defeating the AI and have so much access to troops, it's just not going to change the game.

Charm has a few very good perks, even though the skill it's self still makes me do a double take at how stupid it is: So the skill is I get more relations when I get more relations and how I learn the skill is getting more relation? Yo Dog...... But there are so many ways to get relation that charm basically levels it's self and I can forgive it. Also, the way I start my character to not waste any points starts me with 4 charm. I love firebrand though!

I'd say the main appeal of a high INT main character is just the convenience of covering the roles and being able to use family members (who can also have high INT) as you clan party leaders, rather then roles in you party.

I also like 3 end and 3 cunning om MC to get the mounted patrols/keen sight combo, but this take a very long times now too since scouting is no longer bugged. Still I get it eventually and even at the last leg of the game being able to kart around a couple faction of lords is great!

One thing I guess I must say though, is that painting the map isn't the end if you don't want it to be. You could always leave you kingdom and take it on by yourself! Max medicine and keen sight/mp might really make a difference if you suddenly are cut of from all the villages and are fighting a mega faction.
 

Sweynforkbeard

Sergeant at Arms
I'm saying that they both level at relatively the same pace. One might be a little bit faster or slower than the other but they level relatively the same if you tailor your playstyle to one or the other. You're still not getting either until late game. For example if I want to level charm but I don't like smithing or catching and releasing prisoners, charm will take awhile. But regardless of leveling speed the rewards from 275 medicine by far outweigh level 275 charm.
They do not level at the same rate.

I dont smith, I dont trade. Basically I dont do any active that isnt, atleast, indirectly related to fighting battles. Tournaments, sure when selling loot, and a few quests that can be solved without hassle; notably gangleader needs weapons.

The source of Medicine and Charm XP both come from battle and the former clearly level faster. And why the f... would you not use catch and releash... Makes no sense.
275 charm is only valuable if you're merc otherwise that extra influence is meaningless.
Clearly a difference of opinion. Influence is extreemly useful lategame. Medicine 275 is not; the amount of casualties you actually take relative to the attrition your armies take from leaving behind garissons is just trivial.

They do not level at the same rate.

I dont smith, I dont trade. Basically I dont do any active that isnt, atleast, indirectly related to fighting battles. Tournaments, sure when selling loot, and a few quests that can be solved without hassle; notably gangleader needs weapons.

The source of Medicine and Charm XP both come from battle and the former clearly level faster. And why the f... would you not use catch and releash... Makes no sense.

Clearly a difference of opinion. Influence is extreemly useful lategame. Medicine 275 is not.
So it's not a matter of playstyle then? Because if your goal is too level a certain skill you have to tailor your playstyle to prioritize leveling that skill. And if you're doing that they both level relatively the same in the end. Maybe your playstyle isn't tailored for leveling medicine. Doesn't change that fact that when utilized it's extremely powerful.

I don't trade much because I find it boring but I can still admit level 275 trade is a powerful without arguing semantics.

It was just an example of someone who might have a different playstyle. Since you argued that everyone has a different playstyle. And some playstyles might not fit with certain skills. I personally always catch and release for that exact reason. It works.

Clearly. I don't find influence useful in late game cause I normally have an overabundance of it without 275 charm. So I only put 3 attribute points into social because with that I get everything I need out of that attribute. Which leaves you with enough attribute points left over to max out both intelligence and endurance. Because I enjoy maxed out athletics just like you. And for me leveling medicine I get it to 275 just in time for the beginning of late game or creating a kingdom.
 
Last edited:

Sweynforkbeard

Sergeant at Arms
So it's not a matter of playstyle then? Because if your goal is too level a certain skill you have to tailor your playstyle to prioritize leveling that skill. And if you're doing that they both level relatively the same in the end. Maybe your playstyle isn't tailored for leveling medicine. Doesn't change that fact that when utilized it's extremely powerful.
How precisely do you want tailor your playstyle to levelling Medicine.. Short of recruiting excess troops that you can suicide at the beginning of each battle, I dont really see much opportunity for tailoring anything.
I don't trade much because I find it boring but I can still admit level 275 trade is a powerful without arguing semantics.
I have no clue what perk you are referring to in trade.
It was just an example of someone who might have a different playstyle. Since you argued that everyone has a different playstyle. And some playstyles might not fit with certain skills. I personally always catch and release for that exact reason. It works.
You are the one argueing that medicine 275 is overpowered. It is not.

Its not much different from saying that workshops are OP because you can just buy them and leave the game running overnight (or something) and you will be rich.

You..just...get..the perk... too late for it to actually matter.
And for me leveling medicine I get it to 275 just in time for the beginning of late game or creating a kingdom.
If you want to waste alot of time just running around doing nothing meaningful, so you can get a perk, it does not make the perk OP. It just means you are wasting alot of time doing unnecessary things.
 

diehold

Recruit
Well, I'll say the doctors oath giving medicine skill is a God Send for leveling medicine. Without that it was just not goin to happen and the game would end with my medics having gone from 120-150 or so. However it still comes in too late to be very useful or impactful in the game. In warband surgery is much better because you can quickly get the max level on you MC and have the full benefit the whole game, preserving more of your best troops early when it matters most. In Bannerlord, it's nice to get 275+ medicine but by then you're so good and defeating the AI and have so much access to troops, it's just not going to change the game.

Charm has a few very good perks, even though the skill it's self still makes me do a double take at how stupid it is: So the skill is I get more relations when I get more relations and how I learn the skill is getting more relation? Yo Dog...... But there are so many ways to get relation that charm basically levels it's self and I can forgive it. Also, the way I start my character to not waste any points starts me with 4 charm. I love firebrand though!

I'd say the main appeal of a high INT main character is just the convenience of covering the roles and being able to use family members (who can also have high INT) as you clan party leaders, rather then roles in you party.

I also like 3 end and 3 cunning om MC to get the mounted patrols/keen sight combo, but this take a very long times now too since scouting is no longer bugged. Still I get it eventually and even at the last leg of the game being able to kart around a couple faction of lords is great!

One thing I guess I must say though, is that painting the map isn't the end if you don't want it to be. You could always leave you kingdom and take it on by yourself! Max medicine and keen sight/mp might really make a difference if you suddenly are cut of from all the villages and are fighting a mega faction.
Truth be told I never played Warband only Bannerlord so I'm not familiar with its mechanics. I completely agree that by late game the player is so powerful that almost all 275 perks are overkill cause the snowball has already formed by that time. I find late game grindy like everyone else because there is no challenge left its just cleaning up at that point and time consuming.

I always throw 5 focus points into charm cause it does have a lot of good perks but I've learned its not really worth max attribute points cause to me extra influence isn't needed. I get more than enough influence from battling. Firebrand is awesome!

I think medicine is the only INT skill thats worth it for the player because the final perk can only be gotten by the party leader. 275 steward can be attained by a sibling or companion and same for engineering. The reason I like medicine 275 is I don't even need family members and party leaders cause I can just dominate large armies by myself.

I like getting both of those as well it helps with being at war with multiple factions cause you hold almost every noble of two factions prisoner. Have you noticed that when you hold onto like 150 nobles prisoners it completely f**** the economy for the entire map. It's fun.

Have you ever maxed medicine? You could be competitive with just an army of recruits. It's just silly. I just like having the option of being independent as a solo party. Plus faster movement speed is nice too.
 

Lord Irontoe

Master Knight
Truth be told I never played Warband only Bannerlord so I'm not familiar with its mechanics. I completely agree that by late game the player is so powerful that almost all 275 perks are overkill cause the snowball has already formed by that time. I find late game grindy like everyone else because there is no challenge left its just cleaning up at that point and time consuming.

I always throw 5 focus points into charm cause it does have a lot of good perks but I've learned its not really worth max attribute points cause to me extra influence isn't needed. I get more than enough influence from battling. Firebrand is awesome!

I think medicine is the only INT skill thats worth it for the player because the final perk can only be gotten by the party leader. 275 steward can be attained by a sibling or companion and same for engineering. The reason I like medicine 275 is I don't even need family members and party leaders cause I can just dominate large armies by myself.

I like getting both of those as well it helps with being at war with multiple factions cause you hold almost every noble of two factions prisoner. Have you noticed that when you hold onto like 150 nobles prisoners it completely f**** the economy for the entire map. It's fun.

Have you ever maxed medicine? You could be competitive with just an army of recruits. It's just silly. I just like having the option of being independent as a solo party. Plus faster movement speed is nice too.
I think you're getting pushback on your opinion because when you say something's OP around here, it winds up getting nerfed into the dirt. So while I agree with you that the Minister of Health perk is very powerful and one of the best perks in the game, its not overpowered. Its just powerful enough for the time it takes to earn it.
 

diehold

Recruit
How precisely do you want tailor your playstyle to levelling Medicine.. Short of recruiting excess troops that you can suicide at the beginning of each battle, I dont really see much opportunity for tailoring anything.

I have no clue what perk you are referring to in trade.

You are the one argueing that medicine 275 is overpowered. It is not.

Its not much different from saying that workshops are OP because you can just buy them and leave the game running overnight (or something) and you will be rich.

You..just...get..the perk... too late for it to actually matter.

If you want to waste alot of time just running around doing nothing meaningful, so you can get a perk, it does not make the perk OP. It just means you are wasting alot of time doing unnecessary things.
My playstyle is all about these goals.. leveling medicine fast and max renown gain from battling so I can gain clan tiers quickly.
First you want all high tier troops cause they help you accomplish both goals. I prefer Fians because archers level up incredibly quickly and if they die its not as detrimental as losing Khan's Guard cause no expensive horse investment. Plus forest bandits are more readily available then steppe bandits. My army consists of only top tier Fians and infantry to bait in other infantry and cavalry. The higher the tier troop the faster medicine will grow. I mainly fight as a merc in battles outnumbered and battles where I know I will get the lions share of kills for max renown gain. In the beginning i'm prepared for some losses but as medicine grows most of those losses turn to injuries. I love solo sieges with catapults because they only injure and don't kill. So I end up with a ton of injuries but little to no deaths. Great way to grow medicine.

So as you can see no wasted time doing unmeaningful things. I grow medicine pretty quickly. And I also get max renown gain of 90 often fighting this way. So clan tiers come very fast as well.

It's the best way to accomplish both goals I've found. And my medicine levels probably at a similar pace as if I had max attribute/focus into charm. Charm may level slightly quicker but not by much so it's there with plenty of time to make plenty of use of it during endgame.

I think you're getting pushback on your opinion because when you say something's OP around here, it winds up getting nerfed into the dirt. So while I agree with you that the Minister of Health perk is very powerful and one of the best perks in the game, its not overpowered. Its just powerful enough for the time it takes to earn it.
Even if it does get nerfed the player is so OP regardless. Honestly I'm surprised they nerfed steward and smithing final perks over medicine.
 

Sweynforkbeard

Sergeant at Arms
I think you're getting pushback on your opinion because when you say something's OP around here, it winds up getting nerfed into the dirt.
I sincerely doubt that. If that was the case then KGs and Fians would probably be running around with wooden sticks by now:smile:
 

diehold

Recruit
I sincerely doubt that. If that was the case then KGs and Fians would probably be running around with wooden sticks by now:smile:
I think they want you to play with Fians or KGs cause the game is totally setup for that high powered build. They give you everything you need to make it fully viable.
 
Truth be told I never played Warband only Bannerlord so I'm not familiar with its mechanics. I completely agree that by late game the player is so powerful that almost all 275 perks are overkill cause the snowball has already formed by that time. I find late game grindy like everyone else because there is no challenge left its just cleaning up at that point and time consuming.

I always throw 5 focus points into charm cause it does have a lot of good perks but I've learned its not really worth max attribute points cause to me extra influence isn't needed. I get more than enough influence from battling. Firebrand is awesome!

I think medicine is the only INT skill thats worth it for the player because the final perk can only be gotten by the party leader. 275 steward can be attained by a sibling or companion and same for engineering. The reason I like medicine 275 is I don't even need family members and party leaders cause I can just dominate large armies by myself.

I like getting both of those as well it helps with being at war with multiple factions cause you hold almost every noble of two factions prisoner. Have you noticed that when you hold onto like 150 nobles prisoners it completely f**** the economy for the entire map. It's fun.

Have you ever maxed medicine? You could be competitive with just an army of recruits. It's just silly. I just like having the option of being independent as a solo party. Plus faster movement speed is nice too.
I do agree that medicine 275 may be a bit too powerful, but I wouldn't say that it's the strongest perk. I would say that trade 300, scouting 275 and tactics 275 (when it's combined with other perks in the tree, though I admit it's veeery tedious to get to tactics 275) are stronger overall. It's also harder to get to 275 with medicine than most skill trees, and the perk itself also makes it harder to level it up further due to your soldiers becoming more survivable (maybe except with auto-resolves if the bonus doesn't apply there?).

Imo a final perk being very influential is good, it requires significant investment. For example, I would like that the engineer final perk (also it's level up bonuses) to be much stronger. A master engineer should be the god of building and siegeing by constructing (& building a siege camp) really fast at higher levels, not your engines doing slightly more damage. I would also like the final perks of Vigor, Control & Endurance skills to give some party bonuses (or the bonuses to be increased so that the player can feel like a god).
 
Last edited:

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
I think you're getting pushback on your opinion because when you say something's OP around here, it winds up getting nerfed into the dirt. So while I agree with you that the Minister of Health perk is very powerful and one of the best perks in the game, its not overpowered. Its just powerful enough for the time it takes to earn it.
Of for sure. It's weird how people are always saying things are OP and broken when they're just functional. Most of the skills and perks in bannerlord are just garbage and it's clear they had no Idea what kind of effect they have in the actual gameplay. But you have to put points somewhere so anything that gives some utility is good while "+1 potato every other Tuesday" perks can be skipped.

Have you ever maxed medicine? You could be competitive with just an army of recruits. It's just silly. I just like having the option of being independent as a solo party. Plus faster movement speed is nice too.
I think I got it to 310. I've never tried using any different troops with it but if so that's' good, if you play that long you might as well be able to do goofy things like use only recruits if you want. I like the option of being fast too but TBH the last 3 playthroughs I went into full Killdozer mode very early and stayed that way the whole game, consuming all units and depositing them into garrisons as I go.
 

Sweynforkbeard

Sergeant at Arms
It takes about the same time for you as well.. stop arguing semantics.
No.

If I may make a suggestion. If you want to speed things up then dont aim to fight big battles (if you happen upon a big battle then by all means). Hunt them down individually. And if you really want to crank up the engine then stay independent (dont merc) and declare your own wars against factions and minor clans.
 

diehold

Recruit
Of for sure. It's weird how people are always saying things are OP and broken when they're just functional. Most of the skills and perks in bannerlord are just garbage and it's clear they had no Idea what kind of effect they have in the actual gameplay. But you have to put points somewhere so anything that gives some utility is good while "+1 potato every other Tuesday" perks can be skipped.


I think I got it to 310. I've never tried using any different troops with it but if so that's' good, if you play that long you might as well be able to do goofy things like use only recruits if you want. I like the option of being fast too but TBH the last 3 playthroughs I went into full Killdozer mode very early and stayed that way the whole game, consuming all units and depositing them into garrisons as I go.
Totally. I'm not saying other builds aren't viable anything and everything is viable in this game. Like we both have said many times this game can be beat easily even handicapping yourself. If someone is planning on speed running a playthrough most 275 perks won't be attained or if they are won't be attained to have much utility. And I personally think maxing out attribute points for charm is a waste because you get more than enough influence from battling alone.

No.

If I may make a suggestion. If you want to speed things up then dont aim to fight big battles (if you happen upon a big battle then by all means). Hunt them down individually. And if you really want to crank up the engine then stay independent (dont merc) and declare your own wars against factions and minor clans.
Why hunt them down individually when you can gobble them up all at once solo? And do you mean don't merc just declare a kingdom?
 

Sweynforkbeard

Sergeant at Arms
Why hunt them down individually when you can gobble them up all at once solo? And do you mean don't merc just declare a kingdom?
No, just stay independent (and fiefless) while you do your intial farming. In principle you can just fight, more or less, everything and everyone that moves; though, you probably still want to be able to dump some loot.
 
Top Bottom