massive battles

[sooch90]

ah so here's my 2 cents which might've been said ALOT of times before, but I just wanna say it anyway. I think one problem is that when u have infantry battles, the battle usually just ends up with complete chaos of your men just mushed in with the enemy. You know what I'm saying? It's just a big blob of hacking and slashing.

Here's what I think could fix it.
First, the obvious, formations. It's probably been said alot, so I won't say that much about this. But I think when they are in formation, they should try and stay in formation instead of become a blob of hacking and slashing everywhere.

Secondly, I think that back peddling is too fast. It's kinda awkward to be walking backwards while fighting people. So walking backwards should become very slow and pretty much ineffective when fighting. I think this will help prevent the enemy mixing into your formations so easily and making it a chaotic battle blob.

well that's my 2 cents, sorry if it's been said alot before.

I think Mount and Blade is a GREAT game, and I think it's developing really nicely.

 

[barbaros]

Yes, the combat is usually very chaotic due to the lack of formations and uniforms. Simple line formations would be enough I think.
Backwards speed has been discussed a lot. The main problem is that if you have to fight with 2-3 opponents on foot, there is no other way other than running backwards and attacking at the same time. If backwards speed is decreased, then you have no chance against multiple opponents on foot.

 

[jrawlings]

Should you, in reality, have much of a chance against multiple opponents on foot?

 

[Archonsod]

In all fairness most battles quickly descended into a blob of hacking and slashing. Thats why they invented uniforms.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

On the multiple opponents point, I think it should be very, VERY difficult to defeat multiple opponents simultaniously without a greatly superior weapon, eg. great axe Vs. 3 butchering knives. And even in that encounter, impetuous attackers would still win.
Reducing backward movement speeds would force new, more realistic tactics for fighting multiple opponents (lining them up by sidestepping etc.).

P.S. I agreee with the original post.

 

[Kelpo]

Aye, backpedaling speed should be decreased and yes, surcoats and tunics would be most welcome additions. Of formations I'm not quite sure if they'd fit into the game all that well, but I've been wrong before.

 

[barbaros]

Reducing backward movement speeds would force new, more realistic tactics for fighting multiple opponents (lining them up by sidestepping etc.).

What tactics?. We don't have dodging, sprinting or crouching. If you don't have much higher athletics (like yours is 8 and theirs is 1), there is no way to kill multiple opponents.

Should you, in reality, have much of a chance against multiple opponents on foot?

No. But that's why I play this game. I don't want to be an ordinary NPC. 3 units kills 1 unit if they are equal, is that so simple?. I don't want the result of a battle determined by stats or numbers like a RTS game (or Morrowind type RPG's). I should be somewhat special in game. Not a superman but still I should have some tricks to be able to kill 2-3 NPC opponents at my level.

 

[McPa]

Should you, in reality, have much of a chance against multiple opponents on foot?

I'm with barbaros on this one, you are the hero, not the peasant, not the nameless bastard who always dies, you are the chosen one, the general, you must live through pretty much almost all battles you fight, that means you will pick your fights carefully and fight carefully on the battlefield, but when struggling against 3 watchman, I want to win.

Now, if I am armor-less, unskilled, afraid, and have only a blunt sickle, then I'll die.

 

[Kelpo]

I'm with barbaros on this one, you are the hero, not the peasant, not the nameless bastard who always dies, you are the chosen one, the general, you must live through pretty much almost all battles you fight, that means you will pick your fights carefully and fight carefully on the battlefield, but when struggling against 3 watchman, I want to win.

There's a point there, but do you specifically want to win by backpedaling? It's not exactly the most heroic or cinematic way to fight in my opinion.

 

[sooch90]

I'm with barbaros on this one, you are the hero, not the peasant, not the nameless bastard who always dies, you are the chosen one, the general, you must live through pretty much almost all battles you fight, that means you will pick your fights carefully and fight carefully on the battlefield, but when struggling against 3 watchman, I want to win.

There's a point there, but do you specifically want to win by backpedaling? It's not exactly the most heroic or cinematic way to fight in my opinion.

yeah back pedaling and killing 3 npcs is pretty boring. It's not cool at all. I don't mind killing 3 npcs but there has to be a cooler way of doing it.

 

[Valec SKylien]

I can back pedal fast as hell while fighting people in mock medieval combat- I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about. Second I would like to comment that back pedaling is the tactic for fighting multiple opponents in real combat.

I can fight multiple opponents in the game without back pedaling- it is called strafing, spinning with the shield up and head shots.

 

[Vachir]

Should you, in reality, have much of a chance against multiple opponents on foot?

Yes, but in reality:

Footwork is much better.
Targeting and striking are much better.
Evading and avoidance are much better.
Blocking and parrying are much better.
Successful attacks are much more damaging.
Collision detection (specifically with regard to weapons and allies) is much better.
Movement in general is much faster.

I also dislike how infantry combat always devolves into this backpedaling footrace. I'd like a lot more options for almost all of these areas, especially footwork, as realistic melee combat is a lot of fun.

 

[sooch90]

I can back pedal fast as hell while fighting people in mock medieval combat- I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about. Second I would like to comment that back pedaling is the tactic for fighting multiple opponents in real combat.

I can fight multiple opponents in the game without back pedaling- it is called strafing, spinning with the shield up and head shots.

You gotta be kidding me. You think you can back pedal faster than they can run foward? Maybe if you're really fast, but you won't be able to do it for very long. It's much easier to charge at someone than to back pedal away from someone. When you backpedal, you are slower, you get tired more easily, your attacks won't have nearly as much force.

Well here's a cool way to kill lots of people without backpedaling constantly. I was fighting a group of river pirates alone. And they didn't all come charging at me, they were kind of spread apart. So I charged right through the middle killed a bunch of them and then the other guys began moving in.

So I think the npcs should back off a little more. They shouldn't come charging in all at once. Maybe this should only be done for weaker opponents or something. Also they should square off a little more too.

 

[barbaros]

yeah back pedaling and killing 3 npcs is pretty boring. It's not cool at all. I don't mind killing 3 npcs but there has to be a cooler way of doing it.

Exactly. But unfortunately we don't have any cooler ways now. So reducing backpedaling speed should be postponed until Armagan think of some replacement.

Well here's a cool way to kill lots of people without backpedaling constantly. I was fighting a group of river pirates alone. And they didn't all come charging at me, they were kind of spread apart.

What?. Is this type of AI new in 0.711?. Because they always attacked me all at once in my games. But I didn't do much foot combat in 0.711.

 

[Klokkwork]

Well what the game needs is definitely a little new AI. For instance, units should consider a battle before waltzing up to their enemy. They should consider whether or not their enemy is already engaged, and just how skilled their enemy is. If they spot a lvl 2 enemy being attacked by a lvl 6 ally, they could shrug that one off and look for another battle. If, in contrast, they see a lvl 2 ally being harassed by a lvl 6 enemy, they should try to even the odds by joining in. I can't say as I've been in any actual medieval wars, but in all the movies, the battle isn't just a random blob of chaos. It's a chaotic field of battle. A battle comprised of many little battles, where units square off with enemy units of equivalent skill/number. The hero/champion/captain almost always slashes his way through the chaos, to find the enemy leader, to have the better battle on the field.

Which brings me to another point.. enemy groups need heroes of their own. Yes, this has been suggested before, by many people, and I have to agree. There should be the one guy in the group who's faster, stronger, better than his minions. The guy in charge. The guy who, if he dies, drastically alters the flow of battle. When he drops, his allies lose moral, dropping their own stats down a couple points. Maybe even causing them to turn and flee. You can either hunt them down, or kill them as they run. Up to you. Throw some rocks and get some cheap slaves. *shrug*

This is how these battles go in our minds. You know it as well as I do. And like such AI captains, we need special abilities to. As previously mentioned in this thread, we ARE the hero. We should have some special duck/dodge/roll moves. We're talking about a complex organic brain vs. algorhythmic computer functions, and the best tactic we have is to run backwards and hope to God we don't get backed into a mountain, all the while swinging our swords in front of our face to keep a group of assailants at bay?! Oh yeah, I'm feeling the Die Hard mojo now, baby, yeah!

((P.S. I LOVE this game, even if I am the Zorro of backpeddling))

"Are you saying I can dodge bullets?"

"No, Neo. I'm saying when you're ready, you can outrun them backwards."

 

[Roach]

There were leaders in the Mag7 mod, they had generally better equipment then their men and seemed a lot harder to kill. And apparently they had a boosted Tactics score so they'd outnumber you even more on the field.

As for backpedaling faster than someone can run forward: no, you can't. But if it makes them have to run faster to get within range of you, they're not concentrating on defence as much and can be easier to kill. And it's the only way to avoid getting surrounded, in re-enactment anyway. Valec knows what he's talking about.

And if you try to leap and dodge and duck around like Neo on PCP in even a one-on-one fight you're just asking for a spear in the side.

 

[rugbyizmint]

if u want lots of power in your strike wave your mouse in the direction of your swing i did it and i deliverd 31 damage