SP - General Marriageable Freedom, Romancing, Courtship, and Family: a complete love-life and progeny overhaul suggestion

[eddiemccandless]

I like it! As far as homosexual marriage goes, while it's true that it wouldn't really be a thing in a medieval society dominated by the Catholic church, it's not like Bannerlord is 100% based on historical truth. Calradia is fictional, we have Roman-style cultures mixed with cultures like the Battanians and Sturgians, and there isn't any mention of religion in the game that I know of (which actually for a medieval simulator would be really weird, given how religion-centric the culture of the time was, at least in Europe).

I do imagine that this might not be easy to implement, but it's a nice list of suggestions and a detailed post. Also, many forum posters can certainly learn a lesson from you about how to discuss suggestions without losing their heads over it .

 

[GeneralMayonaise]

I like it! As far as homosexual marriage goes, while it's true that it wouldn't really be a thing in a medieval society dominated by the Catholic church, it's not like Bannerlord is 100% based on historical truth. Calradia is fictional, we have Roman-style cultures mixed with cultures like the Battanians and Sturgians, and there isn't any mention of religion in the game that I know of (which actually for a medieval simulator would be really weird, given how religion-centric the culture of the time was, at least in Europe).

I do imagine that this might not be easy to implement, but it's a nice list of suggestions and a detailed post. Also, many forum posters can certainly learn a lesson from you about how to discuss suggestions without losing their heads over it .

Very good point, and I hadn't really thought about the religion aspect. I agree it is kind of strange religion isn't out in the open though. Although (correct me if I'm wrong), during the conversation with Arzagos he talks about the gods of his ancestral people. Other than that I don't know of anything else. It's almost kind of nice there isn't a religion aspect to the game, seen as someone will eventually (if not already) come out with a mod involving the crusades anyway.

I personally (with my extremely limited knowledge of coding) think it will be fairly difficult to implement, but definitely more than worth it. If TW doesn't, we all know there'll be a mod. And if neither TW or a modder, I think the game will be less for it.

 

[Capillati]

I reckon a religion mechanic would only hinder the diplomacy one... You get yours and maybe another faction like yours and if the mechanics keep true to how religions work, you won`t get to have alliances with anyone except the other one or two factions that would share your religion. I see it as taking from the player`s freedom on how to impact the world. Not to mention you may have fans of certain factions who are gonna` complain ''oh why is my faction a, b or c religion, why isn`t it x y z. It would go on and on and on... Marriage would definitely be affected by this. You a vlandian of x religion? Goodbye marrying a khuzait princess of religion b.

 

[MightyMidgit]

Marriage would definitely be affected by this. You a vlandian of x religion? Goodbye marrying a khuzait princess of religion b.

If she likes you enough, it's nothing eloping can't fix!
Seriously, I abused eloping so much in Warband because I could not be bothered to raise my to-be-father-in-law's opinion of me enough for him to accept the marriage.

Religion certainly would add another major factor into proposal and marriage acceptance. There is a lot of lingering societal stigma in marrying someone outside your religion, and I'm fairly certain it was far worse in the past. Maybe if religion was eventually implemented in a lighter form where it wasn't as strong of a political influence as it was in Europe and the Mediterranean in ancient times, it won't be so bad.

 

[GeneralMayonaise]

Good point @Capillati. Although, I wasn't very clear in my post and I apologize. I meant @MightyMidgit 's original idea as a whole, not the religion aspect. It could make things more interesting having religion in the game, initiating holy wars and all. It would certainly make for some epic sized battles having a couple kingdoms on each side fighting all at once.

Speaking in terms of marriage and religion, it could definitely cause some extreme hatred towards the player kingdom if said player was to elope with a spouse of an opposing religion. Anybody recall the siege on Troy? And that wasn't even over religion, just a couple of kids running off together from opposing kingdoms. Granted, Helen was already married to Menelaus. But you get my point.

Also in terms of marriage, it would be nice to see the player's spouse take a more active role in governing/politics/etc. Sure if (s)he is married to the king/clan/faction leader, they would still require consent from the leader on political issues...or would they? I certainly wouldn't want to be the spouse of a cruel leader, I might end up missing a few inches off the top for a truce that went south.

 

[IceNoVa]

Here's a reminder to keep things on topic.
If you feel like you have to debate with a specific user take it to pm.

 

[Lord Ferdinand]

"Homosexual marriage"
In the medieval? Are you serious??? ? ? ?
The ten votes: do outing please

 

[Razdv]

Let it for mods, you can transform your game into whatever you want.

In medieval ages marriage was about creating heiroom of dedicated parents. That's all.
And you were able to do your "love" with anyone but without marriage. But if someone knew about it there might be some consequences, or not, it depends...
Also check ethymology of a word "marriage" and you'll see what is it actually.

 

[MightyMidgit]

Here's a reminder to keep things on topic.
If you feel like you have to debate with a specific user take it to pm.

Thank you for the thread cleanup.

"Homosexual marriage"
In the medieval? Are you serious??? ? ? ?
The ten votes: do outing please

I thought I'd take a stab at my own interpretation of how it could work and interact with the world in a semi-natural way. I cannot remove anything from the poll at this stage (after so many votes, it will not let you), and I am not going to remove my vision of how it might work from the post. If people don't like it, doesn't hurt me any.

Let it for mods, you can transform your game into whatever you want.

In medieval ages marriage was about creating heiroom of dedicated parents. That's all.
And you were able to do your "love" with anyone but without marriage. But if someone knew about it there might be some consequences, or not, it depends...

Current mods for homosexual marriage are horrendously bugged after the actual marriage because the code simply does not know what to do with same sex couples, and there are no mods for "hidden love affairs".

Also check ethymology of a word "marriage" and you'll see what is it actually.

Ultimately the root: "provided with a *mari," a young woman, from PIE *mari-, *mori- "young wife, young woman" (source also of Welsh morwyn "girl, maiden," Middle Welsh merch "daughter"). Litterally, marriage: "to give daughter."

So etymologically, marriage involved offering your daughter to another. Does that mean that at least lesbian marriages are valid if you offer your daughter to a girl?

I jest, but there is nothing wrong with suggesting the idea. I certainly will not be hurt if the devs do not implement the option to have homosexual romances.


EDIT: I have modified the main post to reflect a lot of the comments about homosexual marriage, changing it to homosexual romances in general which, as many stated here in discussion, did exists back then. You can have the option to keep it secret, hush-hush, (which is more historically accurate) or be bold and announce it officially and suffer any relationship consequences that follow.

 

[Leader144]

Love this thread, great Job. Should be sticky in my opinion so that more can vote and see it ?

 

[Fietta]

"Homosexual marriage"
In the medieval? Are you serious??? ? ? ?
The ten votes: do outing please

No, homosexual marriage in a fantasy game.

 

[Big Bobby]

The moment I saw "far-right" and "far-left" I though - the moderator will remove this thread.

And yet it is... Can you please remove it then? I don't think THE MAJORITY of players wants to do anything with politics.

 

[MightyMidgit]

The moment I saw "far-right" and "far-left" I though - the moderator will remove this thread.

And yet it is... Can you please remove it then? I don't think THE MAJORITY of players wants to do anything with politics.

The most off-base of those comments have already been deleted by the moderator IceNoVa, and the discussion has returned to civility. You can see IceNoVa's response above. Whenever homosexuality is included in discussion, someone is bound to needlessly drag real-world politics into it, but that whole politically-fueled argument is long past back in page 1, so there is no need to resurrect it again, and certainly no one is going to shut down a valid thread because a few commenters brought up real-world politics. (I assume that is what you mean by politics, because I DO think that most players are interested in in-game politics, which this thread very much contributes to.)

I am keeping a close eye on the discussions here and will be reporting any post that goes off-base again, so rest assured that discussions should (hopefully) continue to be civil from here on out.

 

[Big Bobby]

The most off-base of those comments have already been deleted by the moderator IceNoVa, and the discussion has returned to civility. You can see IceNoVa's response above. Whenever homosexuality is included in discussion, someone is bound to needlessly drag real-world politics into it, but that whole politically-fueled argument is long past back in page 1, so there is no need to resurrect it again, and certainly no one is going to shut down a valid thread because a few commenters brought up real-world politics. (I assume that is what you mean by politics, because I DO think that most players are interested in in-game politics, which this thread very much contributes to.)

I am keeping a close eye on the discussions here and will be reporting any post that goes off-base again, so rest assured that discussions should (hopefully) continue to be civil from here on out.

Oh, sorry - I wanted to read the whole thread but I saw some finger-pointing on the first page and wrongly assumed the topic degenerated into twitter feed.

 

[GeneralMayonaise]

I do love the idea of a domination through politics with the noble class. Also, it would make things a little more interesting to include political assassinations along with the noble class. This could apply to internal as well as external political figures. Say one (or a group) of the player's vassals are opposed to a policy or law the PC has initiated and said vassal(s) is/are causing unrest in the kingdom, so you send an assassin companion to deal with the leader and quell the unrest behind the scenes. Of course, with a %chance success rate depending on a specified skill of the assassin, and either level or specified skill of the mark(s).

I am aware assassination is in the gang leader class, but just something to think about.

 

[MightyMidgit]

I do love the idea of a domination through politics with the noble class. Also, it would make things a little more interesting to include political assassinations along with the noble class. This could apply to internal as well as external political figures. Say one (or a group) of the player's vassals are opposed to a policy or law the PC has initiated and said vassal(s) is/are causing unrest in the kingdom, so you send an assassin companion to deal with the leader and quell the unrest behind the scenes. Of course, with a %chance success rate depending on a specified skill of the assassin, and either level or specified skill of the mark(s).

I am aware assassination is in the gang leader class, but just something to think about.

I kind of like the idea of keeping specific benefits for different classes, but that doesn't mean we can't do as you are suggesting! Let's take your idea and tweak it a little.

What if you have mostly nobility in your family because you do want to conquer the world through politics, BUT you also have a single gang relation in your family that you use for the nefarious work, such as assassinating someone vehemently opposed to a policy or law or a warmonger in your faction etc.. Enough noble marriages could easily counterbalance the negative opinion caused by marrying a single gang family into yours. This adds power to the combination of class marriages to reap some of the benefits from each. Of course, once the assassination plan is on the table, like any task/quest in Bannerlord, you should have the option of sending a companion to complete it "with a %chance success rate depending on a specified skill of the assassin, and either level or specified skill of the mark(s)."

 

[Lord Ferdinand]

No, homosexual marriage in a fantasy game.

? It's not a fantasy game.

 

[Teutonic_Tirade]

I do love the idea of a domination through politics with the noble class. Also, it would make things a little more interesting to include political assassinations along with the noble class. This could apply to internal as well as external political figures. Say one (or a group) of the player's vassals are opposed to a policy or law the PC has initiated and said vassal(s) is/are causing unrest in the kingdom, so you send an assassin companion to deal with the leader and quell the unrest behind the scenes. Of course, with a %chance success rate depending on a specified skill of the assassin, and either level or specified skill of the mark(s).

I am aware assassination is in the gang leader class, but just something to think about.

So assassinations are in the game, just not fully implemented? I did notice that one of the lords that I think started out dead said that he was assassinated around the year at the start of the game.

 

[MightyMidgit]

? It's not a fantasy game.

It is a fantasy game. Fantasy does not just mean magic and dragons and Elves. This game falls under the genres of "light fantasy" or "historical fantasy" where everything is still made up, but it keeps with a real-world feel with the addition of historical inspirations.

So assassinations are in the game, just not fully implemented? I did notice that one of the lords that I think started out dead said that he was assassinated around the year at the start of the game.

Assuming you are referring to the statement, "I am aware assassination is in the gang leader class, but just something to think about," I believe @GeneralMayonaise was referring to assassination ability that comes as a marriage benefit in my main post of this thread under marrying into the gang social class.

 

[Teutonic_Tirade]

Assuming you are referring to the statement, "I am aware assassination is in the gang leader class, but just something to think about," I believe @GeneralMayonaise was referring to assassination ability that comes as a marriage benefit in my main post of this thread under marrying into the gang social class.

I see, I must have missed that part. There may add something I'm sure but assassination being in the base might be a while away.

Also, it does feel like marriage is pretty shallow at the moment. Hopefully that add more detail. It doesn't need to be as in depth as CK2 but more in depth than Medieval 2 Total War. I really liked having a wide family tree with lots of children in my kingdom back in M2 TW.