Marnid and Borcha the wimps :(

[svart]

After i played a few characters, i have found that marnid/borcha best contribute me by boosting their non-combat skills, and leaving their combat skills at null.

I find it quite hard to believe a person who fought hundreds of battles, has the fighting level of a peasant - hell even a peasant is more dangerous ...

With the new intelligence handicap, the armor skill, and the harder to level system, it seems like a great waste to put points in non-combat skills for the player, and vice versa put combat skill points for marnid/borcha.

Don't get me wrong, i'm an avid hardcore gamer, and i give my blessing for the added slowness in progression with the new version.
But it seems a bit insane to me to try to have the two "heroes" at the same combat level than me and at a higher level than the other troops without having a -4 tactics disadvantage to each fight, scouting that equals a 12 year old boy scouts, tracking our own footprints and going in circles, and well you get the point

So is it just me ?

 

[Dorian]

No point in increasing their combat skills since they always get knocked down unless they have a 20 on 1 advantage..
It's much better to hire 20 peasants and hope that one of them survives to become a knight (who pay for their own equipment) , then wait ages for M or B to get high-level and buy them expensive equipment..
It's also more roleplayish to leave them with party skills, since Borcha is a scout and Marnid used to be a merchant..

 

[guspav]

hmm actually I haven't found them THAT wimpy by making marnid a horse archer and borcha a horse skirmisher.. they do get some kills (sometimes) and have leveled up a little bit, but it's true since they are "heroes" they shold have some sort of advantage when comparing them to regular troops.

 

[Knight_Galahad]

Their advantage is not dying away. I think its enough.. But that's me.. I think they do allright with horse archer and power throw skills, shooting longbows and throwing javelin on horseback.. Since its a pain in the ass getting any Kerghits in your army...

 

[jrawlings]

I got Marnid and Borcha very early in the game and early on, they were able to score quite a few kills against river pirates. Granted, I could have soloed them...

Part of the problem with Marnid and Borcha is that if you have them mounted, they behave like mounted troops, which as we all know, do not follow commands as well as infantry. They tend to wander off a bit, which gets them isolated against the enemy, and consiquently they get toasted.

To increase their survival, try dismounting them and give them other infantry support.

 

[Beelzebub]

In my last game I made Borcha into a mounted heavy knight with a bigass 2h sword and he did alright, got a lot more kills than Marnid as a horse archer. Mostly because Marnid was a terrible skirmisher, he didn't listen when I orded hold position (my army had a lot of Vaeger infantry) and was always out ahead alone and got railed by the enemy mounted troops.

 

[Sir Prince]

I've been doinng this all along. Marnid is a trader/healer who can kill a few guys. Borcha is a tacker/hunter who can also kill a few guys.

 

[Kanon_Kross]

Me.. I just force them to become trainers to the best of their abilities for leveling the rest of my troops, and become healers as well. They cannot truly die so I see no point in -not- leaving them on horseback and letting them die. I find it funny out of random to see them knocked out. If they get the enemy away from me, great, if they just die, hahahahahaha. Borcha you suck!~ Now train my soldiers!

 

[Instag0]

Marnid and Borcha would be far more useful if they leveled up WITH the player's character.

 

[jknemesis]

I still feel like the "hero" characters should have more unique combat abilities than the run-of-the-mill soldier. I don't mean giving ridiculous skills a la Diablo II (IE. Whirldwind and leap attack all that crazy crap) , but since the computer's AI is driving the heroes, there's no significant advantage there. Since marnid and borcha both take forever to even reach the same level as your hired blades and knights, there's no advantage there. The only foreseeable advantage that comes to mind is if: 1) Armagan and his new dev. team somehow come up with amazing AI algorithms to boost the behavior and leadership of Marnid and Borscha, or if 2) Hero units can gain skills beyond the mundane soldier set that are unique only to them, like destroying shields in a single hit, attacking several times in quick succession, duel wielding, shield bashing, acrobatics, etc or something.

 

[kkriegg]

I think they should just be beefed up a bit and given a better AI. I can't even count the times those two just charged into a crowd and get killed, while my knights do the smarter thing and circle around.

 

[Slaists]

give them crossbows swords and big shields and dismount them before the battle... they tend to do alright in that situation...

 

[Garth]

I think they should be left just as they are because they wouldn't be so lovable and the topic of countless discussions on the message board otherwise.

Every time I see one of my knights die, I smack my table and say naughty things.

Every time I see Marnid disobey an order and get knocked unconscious, I think to my self 'Gee willikers, silly ol' Marnid's done it again.'

And in the last version, Borcha with a great sword and all black armor was no worse than any of my knights.

And their non-combat skills are priceless.

Besides, your character is enough of an ultra superhero. No need for three.

 

[Wood]

I use Marnid as a squire, to give me a backup horse. I charge ahead and if my horse dies I call for Marnid, order a dismount and ride his horse instead.

 

[Maelstorm]

Hey hey. They already have properties that others dont.
first, they excel in shooting your hero.
second, their "party" skills can be used, unlike those of standard troops.
You dont need to give a damn about tracking if you have borcha.

I usually use them for their skills, not their combat abilities, and the outcome is welcome. I can save skill points to increase MY combat abilities while i use theirs to increase party skills. We get along well.

 

[Skanky Burns]

Their non-combat skills make them worthwhile. Any actual fighting skills are a bonus, plus you can equip them with the best weapons you can afford (and find) while your other standard followers only have set equipment per level. We will ignore the fact that standard followers pay for their own stuff.

 

[svart]

I've been doinng this all along. Marnid is a trader/healer who can kill a few guys. Borcha is a tacker/hunter who can also kill a few guys.

Same here, and my hero gets all the combat skills ... oh and leadership and 1 point in prison management
I added a suggestion discussion thread at http://forums.taleworlds.com/viewtopic.php?p=62993#62993

I use Marnid as a squire, to give me a backup horse. I charge ahead and if my horse dies I call for Marnid, order a dismount and ride his horse instead.

Nice, wait that means the other 20 knights dismount from their horses in your honor as well

 

[Maelstorm]

We will ignore the fact that standard followers pay for their own stuff.

Nope. Their weekly pay covers equipment too. Or so says the tavern guy. "I know a fellow or two who can fight for you if you paid for their equipment" or something like that, if memory serves.

 

[Zeaph]

I just turn them into guide's and medics, works out pretty well I think

 

[Skanky Burns]

You have a point, Maelstorm - your heroes don't require pay, another point in their favour.