Male Circumcision - why still legal?

[Adorno]

For instance, western liberals think child obesity is not a sufficient reason for an outside intervention, while circumcision is. In my opinion it's the other way around.

What is this 'obesity vs. circumcision' logic? 
The complexity of the problematic of obesity are not comparable to that of circumcision.
Circumcision is a one time thing done a by a professional (hopefully) here and now, and choosing not to is simple,
whereas obesity involves all of society from the daily lives to food production and consumption.
Solving obesity can't be done by removing thousands of children from their parents (if that's the implication);
even intensive community work shows very little effect - and obesity keeps rising.

 

[rebelsquirrell]

For some reason people here are sceptical of moral relativism, but it is a reality. - Dah Weaver

You are aware that moral relativism does not mean that all moralities are equal or should be followed.

Relativism is still a form of moral realism. (or at least it does not have to be a nihilistic enterprise) 

Morality is no more fake than rocks or trees. Humans perceive the world first then provide labels for what is perceived. (rocks, trees, good, bad etc.)

Morality however does not just express the feelings of speaker (emotivism) it also offers a prescription (Prescriptivism)  for behavior based on rational necessity  of events in order to achieve desired goals. 


If a world in which theft is not common is desired then one will teach not stealing to others in order to achieve that goal.

Also just because all moralities are prescriptions does not make them all equal.

If one prescribes me to condemn homosexuality to please a non existent God then this prescription can never actually be fulfilled and is thus not valid.

Even if two conflicting morality's prescriptions can be fulfilled  one's own "rational ought to's"  do not disappear.


Rationally one should subvert the other.

 

[Weaver]

Solving obesity can't be done by removing thousands of children from their parents (if that's the implication);

Certainly not.
In any case, you are right, it was an ill-advised example.

 

[Weaver]

Even if two conflicting morality's prescriptions can be fulfilled  one's own "rational ought to's"  do not disappear.

Rationally one should subvert the other.

I'm aware that we'll open a completely new can of worms here, but I'm willing to do it. What can possibly go wrong?

Moral relativity is not a term I chose. Some other guy mentioned and I played along.
But if we're going into detail here, this term is not exactly precise. There is more to this relativity than just morals.
Every moral decision is based in speaker's ratio. If culturally he is raised as an individualist and believes that human life and personal freedom are more important than cultural integrity and tradition, that's his rational premise in a discussion. But if one was raised in a rigid traditional society, he has a different starting point. His arguments can be as rational as the other guy's but they're based in different initial data.

I'm not willing to say that one view point is better than the other. That said, I'm also not willing to say that there should be no clashes and tension between cultures. It's a natural historical process.
I'm not trying to assume some moral higher ground. Nor am I willing to be apathetically neutral as Jhess suggests.
But the truth with the law against circumcision is that it will (arguably) help very few people in a very minor way and piss off in a rather bad way a numerous groups of people, entire nations. Colour this argument utilitarian if you will.
If the reason behind this discussion is to actually make jews' and muslims' life better, rather than prove that their traditions are invalid (as we should surely do with slavers and cannibals), then we need to take into account their opinion on the issue.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

What is this 'obesity vs. circumcision' logic? 

Don't you know? Circumcised guys tend to be chubbier. Mage doesn't tell many people this, but he's actually the size of Akira's Tetsuo in blob-form.

In fact, he is Tetsuo in blob-form. On account of all the small children he consumes in an average day. Small children and OAPs. And cats. Even the cats aren't safe.

 

[Mage246]

Cats are tasty, but just aren't very filling anymore.I once absorbed a schoolbus full of children. Delicious.

 

[Tibertus]

What is this 'obesity vs. circumcision' logic? 

Don't you know? Circumcised guys tend to be chubbier. Mage doesn't tell many people this, but he's actually the size of Akira's Tetsuo in blob-form.

In fact, he is Tetsuo in blob-form. On account of all the small children he consumes in an average day. Small children and OAPs. And cats. Even the cats aren't safe.

Good lord, I can't imagine how skinny I'd be if I weren't circumcised then.

 

[Seff]

This explains my skinniness.

 

[Mage246]

Well, as a shape-shifting demigod I can technically assume any shape I wish, which is why I choose to appear skinny when not devouring the flesh of the innocent.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

Not mine.

You probably need more protein in your diet.

You live near Pav, don't you?

Well, as a shape-shifting demigod I can technically assume any shape I wish, which is why I choose to appear skinny when not devouring the flesh of the innocent.

Pft, I can't remember the last time you weren't devouring the flesh of the innocent for more than five minutes.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

I must be thinking of someone else, then. I'll scratch you off mine & Seff's US road-trip next year.

So. How 'bout that circumcision?

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

Chicago won't be there next year, but thanks for the thought.

What? Oh. Seff says I'm not supposed to talk about Chicago...

 

[FrisianDude]

Seff's afraid of Limburger.

 

[Mage246]

I must be thinking of someone else, then. I'll scratch you off mine & Seff's US road-trip next year.

So. How 'bout that circumcision?

You're thinking of me! I'm a hermit, but I could be convinced for the right price...

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

You're thinking of me!

Don't you mean we're thinking of ourselves? 

I'm a hermit, but I could be convinced for the right price...

I'll buy you a bigger house.

隐藏

 

[Mage246]

It's... So beautiful.

 

[Mage246]

So don't give them a bucket, you silly person you.

 

[Seff]

Chicago won't be there next year, but thanks for the thought.

What? Oh. Seff says I'm not supposed to talk about Chicago...

 

[kurczak]

Uhm, as the one who came up with the obesity "comparison" - it's not about putting fat kids to concentration camps or whatever, taking morbidly obese kids away from their parents is a thing, it's not something I would suggest out of blue. It doesn't mean they go to fat camps, they just got appointed a guardian who takes over the parental rights/responsibility and stops feeding them bigmacs 24/7.

The entire point is that while normal chubbiness or overweight is bad for the kid or at the very least "not necessary" to keep up with the circumcision terminology, it doesn't and should not warrant intervention from the government. Similarly circumcision might not be "necesssary" and its risks may outweigh its benefits (debatable), but it's not that horrible to be banned.

Simple as that.

 

[Sir Saladin]

I had hermit crabs when I was little.  They were fun, but had a nasty habit of kicking the bucket fairly regularly.

A little known fact about hermit crabs is that they need to keep water in their borrowed shells for breathing, so they have to have a small bowl filled with water that they can walk through and fill up the reservoir occasionally. Apparently they have gills even though they spend a lot of time out of the water.

I can't remember if they live longer if you circumcise them or not.