makeshift pike spawners

[Ducksrulez]

imagine the wall has just been breached in your fort, you and your regiment are rushing to the cover the hole in the wall as the enemy advances towards it. you see your engineers rushing past to drop large sharpened wooden sticks next to the breach. your regiment leader yells "Front line! Stakes!"  you and the rest of the front line rush to grab the stakes picking them up before falling back in line. you and your regiment then set up in front of the breach with you and the front line kneeling with your wooden stakes in font of you. you can now see the the enemy has started there charge and your regiment leader orders one last barrage from both the back line and front line.  you fire your shot and pick up your stake and brace it against the ground with the rest of your regiment. the first of enemy's comes through unable to see through the smoke left from your last barrage they blindly charge onto the end of your pikes. the enemy's behind the first wave hear the screams of there fallen comrades and lunge out with there bayonets as they come through the smoke, but they are no match for you as you thrust out with the extended reach of your pike.

wouldn't this be pretty easy to add in?  we all ready have the ammunition spawners for artillery why not just change the models for the spawner and have it spawn a different weapon? the pike should look like a very crudely made spear basically a tree branch with a sharpened end, but it should have a major reach advantage over the bayonet. it would be weaker than the bayonet maybe with a chance to whiff when the crude tip is not able to penetrate the clothing. also the way that mount and blade works, long weapons like the pike in native are practically useless at point blank since you are unable to hit them with the tip of the weapon.  the pike could be used to slow down charges in sieges and also be able  to keep people off of ladders before they get on the wall.

 

[Sharp.Ryan]

The engineers already can deploy barricades, and the infantry can brace their bayonet tipped muskets.

 

[Reoul_MM]

No this is not going to happen if you like it play MM.

 

[Scully]

Stopping a charging horse with a bayonet, is that realistic?

 

[Nordmann]

Stopping a charging horse with a bayonet, is that realistic?

Yes. Horses tend not to charge into sharp pointy things.

 

[FatalJoker]

Stopping a charging horse with a bayonet, is that realistic?

the horse itself would stop because it wouldnt want to die.

 

[Crayon]

Stopping a charging horse with a bayonet, is that realistic?

Infantry Squares say yes.

 

[dochtorgajo]

Stopping a charging horse with a bayonet, is that realistic?

Stopping it before he runs into you  - yes. Stopping it by impaling it is nonence on the other hand. If it really happened, it was death sentence for infantry. Most charges never made it to bayonets after first volley, something this game cant simulate as everyone is berserker here without fear for his life.

Baynets themselves have almost no role in stopping cavalry charge, yes, if you maintain formation, then they cant and wont simply run over you like avalanche, but thats all. Without firepower, sooner or later one or more determined horseman could make a breach paying with his horses or his life at first most propably, but then allowing others to push into the gap at which point most infatrys discipline would dissolve as theyre surrounded and cut down from all sides. (Of course you can use anything else, like artillery ideally, hopefully cannons cooperating with horsemen will be possible in this game) Austrians at Dresden or Sikhs at Aliwal, or Khushab would surely be able to speak volumes about it.

 

[DanAngleland]

Stopping a charging horse with a bayonet, is that realistic?

I'm not sure how this question came up; perhaps the mention of bracing was enough to convince people that the OP was thinking of cavalry? Everything else in his post though suggests infantry on both sides, at least to me.

Reoul_MM makes a strange statement as well; 'No this is not going to happen if you like it play MM.', as if the pike spawning feature was available in M&M. Not just unhelpful, but nonsensical.

As for the idea, I'm not sure it would be useful- apart from the question of would it be realistic (would commanders order their men to fashion makeshift pikes in this era, weapons which they aren't drilled in using as a group, when they have more potent short version in their bayonets? Which they are experienced in using.), why is it needed? As long as a map is well balanced a good defending side can slow attackers down a lot as it is. And when the attackers do get past the pikes, the pike carriers are suddenly at a big disadvantage and are going to get massacred. Their numbers are bound to be whittled down by attacking musket fire, and then the attacking bayonets can get in amongst the pikewall and kill them at leisure. The pikes, and the presumably fleeing pikemen, would then become a hindrance to their own side who would have to wait until the now useless pikemen had run past before engaging the pursuing attackers.

An interesting idea but I think it makes more sense for a mod such as The Deluge, where musketeers could conceivably benefit from makeshift pikes to augment the proper pikemen in a melee.

 

[Ducksrulez]

Stopping a charging horse with a bayonet, is that realistic?

I'm not sure how this question came up; perhaps the mention of bracing was enough to convince people that the OP was thinking of cavalry? Everything else in his post though suggests infantry on both sides, at least to me.

Reoul_MM makes a strange statement as well; 'No this is not going to happen if you like it play MM.', as if the pike spawning feature was available in M&M. Not just unhelpful, but nonsensical.

As for the idea, I'm not sure it would be useful- apart from the question of would it be realistic (would commanders order their men to fashion makeshift pikes in this era, weapons which they aren't drilled in using as a group, when they have more potent short version in their bayonets? Which they are experienced in using.), why is it needed? As long as a map is well balanced a good defending side can slow attackers down a lot as it is. And when the attackers do get past the pikes, the pike carriers are suddenly at a big disadvantage and are going to get massacred. Their numbers are bound to be whittled down by attacking musket fire, and then the attacking bayonets can get in amongst the pikewall and kill them at leisure. The pikes, and the presumably fleeing pikemen, would then become a hindrance to their own side who would have to wait until the now useless pikemen had run past before engaging the pursuing attackers.

An interesting idea but I think it makes more sense for a mod such as The Deluge, where musketeers could conceivably benefit from makeshift pikes to augment the proper pikemen in a melee.

you aren't forced to drop your gun when you pick up the pike. the purpose of using it would be when you are in a defensive position you are able to out range the charging force there for slowing the enemys down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze4YmUjFDBI#t=6m25s during sieges in MM people easily get over run  when there is a hole in a wall, with pikes a few people could hold bayonets off while there teammates keep fire on the enemy.  and yes the stakes could also be able to safely fend off a lancer charge. you don't really need much training for pikes as the soldiers all ready know how to stand in formation, for bayonets the training you need is how to safely stab at maximum range without giving an opening to the enemy also how to deflect oncoming thrusts just like in fencing. with a pike you don't need to know how to safely thrust or block since you are mostly safe since you out range your enemy's stabbing weapon already.

 

[Bloodbeag]

horses cant physically charge at a sharp metal thing that was the whole idea behind the square formation, the horses couldnt charge at them so they would keep running around and then they would shoot them.

 

[DanAngleland]

Stopping a charging horse with a bayonet, is that realistic?

I'm not sure how this question came up; perhaps the mention of bracing was enough to convince people that the OP was thinking of cavalry? Everything else in his post though suggests infantry on both sides, at least to me.

Reoul_MM makes a strange statement as well; 'No this is not going to happen if you like it play MM.', as if the pike spawning feature was available in M&M. Not just unhelpful, but nonsensical.

As for the idea, I'm not sure it would be useful- apart from the question of would it be realistic (would commanders order their men to fashion makeshift pikes in this era, weapons which they aren't drilled in using as a group, when they have more potent short version in their bayonets? Which they are experienced in using.), why is it needed? As long as a map is well balanced a good defending side can slow attackers down a lot as it is. And when the attackers do get past the pikes, the pike carriers are suddenly at a big disadvantage and are going to get massacred. Their numbers are bound to be whittled down by attacking musket fire, and then the attacking bayonets can get in amongst the pikewall and kill them at leisure. The pikes, and the presumably fleeing pikemen, would then become a hindrance to their own side who would have to wait until the now useless pikemen had run past before engaging the pursuing attackers.

An interesting idea but I think it makes more sense for a mod such as The Deluge, where musketeers could conceivably benefit from makeshift pikes to augment the proper pikemen in a melee.

you aren't forced to drop your gun when you pick up the pike. the purpose of using it would be when you are in a defensive position you are able to out range the charging force there for slowing the enemys down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze4YmUjFDBI#t=6m25s during sieges in MM people easily get over run  when there is a hole in a wall, with pikes a few people could hold bayonets off while there teammates keep fire on the enemy.  and yes the stakes could also be able to safely fend off a lancer charge. you don't really need much training for pikes as the soldiers all ready know how to stand in formation, for bayonets the training you need is how to safely stab at maximum range without giving an opening to the enemy also how to deflect oncoming thrusts just like in fencing. with a pike you don't need to know how to safely thrust or block since you are mostly safe since you out range your enemy's stabbing weapon already.

Good point, I didn't consider that; the musket could just be slung on the back while using the pike, though when the attackers do eventually get through the crucial second or so taken to get the musket in hand would leave the defenders open to attack. But I still don't think that such an advantage for the defenders is desirable, since in my experience siege rounds don't get won long before the time runs out, and of course quite often they are won by the defenders. A good defensive side can make breaches very hard to take. I play in the public siege mode on the 84e server a lot and see good defensive work trump the attackers often (though the attackers win most rounds of course, but usually with less than a minute left on the clock).