Make aging an option.

[duchuy613]

If there is a way to allow adjusting the rate of a month in-game, then that would be the best solution for everyone.

If this is not possible, however (or if it would lead to problems and limitations elsewhere), then the devs are going to have to choose between the wishes of people who want to live their character's life in about 10-20hrs of gameplay and move on to the next generation, and of those who do not want to age at all. In the end, the feature is either a major part of the game, or it is basically useless.

It doesn't seem like something that's easy to make optional, and the importance of the ageing feature is going to decide whether Bannerlord ultimately ends up being an RPG sandbox where you level your character to max and "win" in the end, or a dynamic medieval storytelling sandbox. The wishes of both groups of players do not seem compatible, and Taleworlds is going to have a tough time walking the tightrope between them.

I don't even know why it would be hard for TW. A simple check box to disable aging if people want to is enough. I don't even see how this aging feature is anywhere near to being the "core component" of this game. It's just a small thing added for immersion. Even if you take aging out, it still wouldnt change how the game plays in the slightest, that's a sign of it not being a core component lol.

 

[stevehoos]

What? No, you age about three times slower than you should.

As things stand, you never see yourself get old and die. You never see your kids grow up to take your place.

They need to accelerate ageing. If you don't like this feature, go back to Warband.

I don't even know why it would be hard for TW. A simple check box to disable aging if people want to is enough. I don't even see how this aging feature is anywhere near to being the "core component" of this game. It's just a small thing added for immersion. Even if you take aging out, it still wouldnt change how the game plays in the slightest, that's a sign of it not being a core component lol.

Agreed, he is making this sound like some grand compulsory feature that if its not kept the game will cease to work.

 

[spartanlemur]

I don't even know why it would be hard for TW. A simple check box to disable aging if people want to is enough. I don't even see how this aging feature is anywhere near to being the "core component" of this game. It's just a small thing added for immersion. Even if you take aging out, it still wouldnt change how the game plays in the slightest, that's a sign of it not being a core component lol.

With ageing in the game, there's a much greater emphasis on kingdoms rising and falling, succession, long-term improvement and decline of provinces, and dynastic narratives. You spend a lot longer as the lord of a kingdom and will face much more varied situations, so the strategy and kingdom management elements become very important, and require more work. Rebellions become a constant feature rather than an annoying setback in your quest for Calradia.

Without ageing in the game, none of this happens, because you're spending a lot longer in a much smaller space of time. The game becomes more about development of your particular character, doing quests and growing in power until you "win" and restart. You spend time building reputation and gold (this part of the game will have to be much more involved) until you can create your own kingdom (either after vassalage or not), and then expand until you can snowball, after which point you've won, because you're an immortal emperor who is stronger, wealthier, and more famous than anyone else in the world.

The lack of ageing also has implications for lord death/replacement, and the balance issues caused by this. Even the solution to the current snowballing problem depends on the progression of time, and the importance of ageing and death (whether it be slowing conquest much more, in fitting with a shorter progression of time, or in having vassal and cultural rebellions that reverse gains and topple empires - the vassal rebellions may be a result of a dead sovereign leaving multiple claimants).

The focus of future development is going to be different depending on how important ageing and death is to the overall experience.

 

[Cankiie]

Wait.

We are aging in this game?

I did not notice.

I don't mind the idea of it, makes sense to get a family then... but I did not know.

 

[duchuy613]

With ageing in the game, there's a much greater emphasis on kingdoms rising and falling, succession, long-term improvement and decline of provinces, and dynastic narratives. You spend a lot longer as the lord of a kingdom and will face much more varied situations, so the strategy and kingdom management elements become very important, and require more work. Rebellions become a constant feature rather than an annoying setback in your quest for Calradia.

Without ageing in the game, none of this happens, because you're spending a lot longer in a much smaller space of time. The game becomes more about development of your particular character, doing quests and growing in power until you "win" and restart. You spend time building reputation and gold (this part of the game will have to be much more involved) until you can create your own kingdom (either after vassalage or not), and then expand until you can snowball, after which point you've won, because you're an immortal emperor who is stronger, wealthier, and more famous than anyone else in the world.

The lack of ageing also has implications for lord death/replacement, and the balance issues caused by this. Even the solution to the current snowballing problem depends on the progression of time, and the importance of ageing and death (whether it be slowing conquest much more, in fitting with a shorter progression of time, or in having vassal and cultural rebellions that reverse gains and topple empires - the vassal rebellions may be a result of a dead sovereign leaving multiple claimants).

The focus of future development is going to be different depending on how important ageing and death is to the overall experience.

Succession doesn't matter when the main game play mechanic is the same with the goal of you conquering everything. It doesn't even matter who the kings are when they all act the same with the same AI. And without ageing, you spend even longer as the lord of a kingdom, and face even more varied situations, I dont know why you even brought it up.

Without ageing, the game would literally be the same, just without the lords' names changing once in a while. The game is designed around kingdoms conquering each other in a sandbox world. It will never be a story-driven game with a narratives. The core gameplay mechanic doesn't support that. There aren't even any decent conversation in the game.

If you're expecting something like Games of Throne, you'd be disappointed. You can't have a story with all this randomness happening every 5 minutes. It's like expecting The Last of Us level of story telling in Minecraft lol....

Just accept the fact that it's a more polished version of Warband with some added cool features.

 

[spartanlemur]

Succession doesn't matter when the main game play mechanic is the same with the goal of you conquering everything. It doesn't even matter who the kings are when they all act the same with the same AI. And without ageing, you spend even longer as the lord of a kingdom, and face even more varied situations, I dont know why you even brought it up.

Without ageing, the game would literally be the same, just without the lords' names changing once in a while. The game is designed around kingdoms conquering each other in a sandbox world. It will never be a story-driven game with a narratives. The core gameplay mechanic doesn't support that. There aren't even any decent conversation in the game.

If you're expecting something like Games of Throne, you'd be disappointed. You can't have a story with all this randomness happening every 5 minutes. It's like expecting The Last of Us level of story telling in Minecraft lol....

Just accept the fact that it's a more polished version of Warband with some added cool features.

The goal isn't the same with ageing, because the drama becomes more important as a result of the importance of dynasties. Because you keep suffering the setback of death and the internal crises this creates, you spend more of your time dealing with intrigue and internal diplomacy than you would if death were not in place.

Hence you will spend longer managing a kingdom through its good times and bad.

I'll come clean and admit that I would like Bannerlord to give us a Game of Thrones experience after many DLCs/expansions over the next decade which expand the features of the game.

A polished version of Warband seems to be a very limited ambition. I got to a stage where I couldn't even play Warband anymore, because I realised that nothing in the world ever changes: lords can't die (or if they do in mods I imagine they're just replaced by some autogenerated lord who does the same thing), and the result is that all you're doing through battle is squeezing them into less space until you can recruit them and paint the map your colour. I've not enjoyed a campaign since I made that realisation about five years ago, and I was the most excited I had been in years when Taleworlds announced death, ageing, and childbirth, because it meant I may finally be able to enjoy Mount and Blade again - the world would feel as though it was one which could be substantively changed by player intervention.

 

[TIDM2]

Everyone is so concerned about aging, I don't think its a concern at all. I've played about 35 hours in my one campaign and I've aged from 30 to 39, with the campaign being almost over for me. I doubt most people will play a single game long enough to die of natural causes. Especially if they make it so you can start at age 20 or or something, which they should.

If anything it is aging too slowly for the people who actually want the children system and want to see their kids become adults

 

[Stromming]

A few things NEED to happen to make this system viable.

1. Ageing speed needs to be made optional
2. Ageing speed needs to have several speed settings as the current is too slow for me but may be too fast for others
3. Faction balance needs alot of work to accomodate the above.
4. They need to put a limit to how many kids you can have. 2-3 generations down the line, you will have more people in your clan than there is noblemen in the world.

 

[duchuy613]

The goal isn't the same with ageing, because the drama becomes more important as a result of the importance of dynasties. Because you keep suffering the setback of death and the internal crises this creates, you spend more of your time dealing with intrigue and internal diplomacy than you would if death were not in place.

Hence you will spend longer managing a kingdom through its good times and bad.

I'll come clean and admit that I would like Bannerlord to give us a Game of Thrones experience after many DLCs/expansions over the next decade which expand the features of the game.

A polished version of Warband seems to be a very limited ambition. I got to a stage where I couldn't even play Warband anymore, because I realised that nothing in the world ever changes: lords can't die (or if they do in mods I imagine they're just replaced by some autogenerated lord who does the same thing), and the result is that all you're doing through battle is squeezing them into less space until you can recruit them and paint the map your colour. I've not enjoyed a campaign since I made that realisation about five years ago, and I was the most excited I had been in years when Taleworlds announced death, ageing, and childbirth, because it meant I may finally be able to enjoy Mount and Blade again - the world would feel as though it was one which could be substantively changed by player intervention.

There's no internal crisis when the AI is not designed for it. It will just be you dealing with the same problem but with different characters. The drama doesn't become any more important because all it changes is the name of the NPC, nothing more. The "intrigue and internal diplomacy" you are expecting doesn't exist. You thinking as if this is a kingdom management game when it's not. It's a sandbox action RPG with some elements of kingdom management.

If you want to spend more time managing a kingdom, just do it on your character. It all comes down to whether you want to do it or not regardless of if ageing exists.

Let's be honest here, expecting story telling in Bannerlord is just unrealistic. You're making the game something it's not. What you're looking for is a 4X game like Civilization where a year passes in a heartbeat. You simply can't do that in Bannerlord with the core gameplay mechanic. If you're bored with Warband's mechanic, you're gonna be bored of Bannerlord too. It's all the same genre of game, they're in the same series, so don't expect them to be massively different.

 

[spartanlemur]

There's no internal crisis when the AI is not designed for it. It will just be you dealing with the same problem but with different characters. The drama doesn't become any more important because all it changes is the name of the NPC, nothing more. The "intrigue and internal diplomacy" you are expecting doesn't exist. You thinking as if this is a kingdom management game when it's not. It's a sandbox action RPG with some elements of kingdom management.

If you want to spend more time managing a kingdom, just do it on your character. It all comes down to whether you want to do it or not regardless of if ageing exists.

Let's be honest here, expecting story telling in Bannerlord is just unrealistic. You're making the game something it's not. What you're looking for is a 4X game like Civilization where a year passes in a heartbeat. You simply can't do that in Bannerlord with the core gameplay mechanic. If you're bored with Warband's mechanic, you're gonna be bored of Bannerlord too. It's all the same genre of game, they're in the same series, so don't expect them to be massively different.

No, actually I'm looking for something more like Sid Meier's Pirates, where ageing progresses at a reasonable rate. Fast enough to notice, but slow enough that you can play a full and satisfying game with your character.

I think Taleworlds have a lot of room to improve things such as the AI, and see this concept (which I should add is already in the game - it is part of the vision Taleworlds has) as a natural progression of the core idea that was incomplete in Warband.

All they need to do is speed up ageing by 3x and then build on the character relations and kingdom management mechanics. It's an early access game, and while they will be adding things, they will not be taking core features away. It's rather amusing that you're accusing me of wanting the game to be something it's not when this thread has multiple people asking to essentially remove one of the core features of Bannerlord.

I am happy with every Bannerlord feature we have, and I want more. I think the people unhappy with existing features should stick with Warband, which has everything they want bar pretty graphics.

 

[Delinard]

Why do we even start as 30 year old? It should be like 20-25 so we get more time to mess around before actually worrying about having a kid

 

[duchuy613]

No, actually I'm looking for something more like Sid Meier's Pirates, where ageing progresses at a reasonable rate. Fast enough to notice, but slow enough that you can play a full and satisfying game with your character.

I think Taleworlds have a lot of room to improve things such as the AI, and see this concept (which I should add is already in the game - it is part of the vision Taleworlds has) as a natural progression of the core idea that was incomplete in Warband.

All they need to do is speed up ageing by 3x and then build on the character relations and kingdom management mechanics. It's an early access game, and while they will be adding things, they will not be taking core features away. It's rather amusing that you're accusing me of wanting the game to be something it's not when this thread has multiple people asking to essentially remove one of the core features of Bannerlord.

I am happy with every Bannerlord feature we have, and I want more. I think the people unhappy with existing features should stick with Warband, which has everything they want bar pretty graphics.

They are not gonna massively change the entire genre of the game that is already out in early access. The amount of work it takes to code the thing is literally the same as making a brand new game. No one is ever gonna do that. Ageing and succession are added cool features for immersion's sake. It's NOT a core feature. As I said before, if it's taken away and the way you play the game remained the same, then it's not a core feature. No matter how much you tell yourself it's a core feature, it's not. People wanted the option to turn it off, not remove it. You're the one who wants to turn this game into an entire different genre.

If you're looking for something like Sid Meier's Pirates, play Sid Meier's Pirates.

People here want to play Mount and Blade, not a Sid Meier's game. More features is cool, but if it means changing the entire game to another genre is a big no no. It's ridiculous to go to MnB forum asking for a Sid Meier's game and tell MnB fans to play Warband, acting as if Bannerlord should be tailor-made for you personally.

 

[spartanlemur]

Why do we even start as 30 year old? It should be like 20-25 so we get more time to mess around before actually worrying about having a kid

I agree with this. Honestly, they need to let us customise more about our starting situation, and not force us to play the campaign.

Let us choose an age between 18 and 60, where we start, and then what job we have when we start (determines starting equipment). If I remember correctly, Viking Conquest had this feature.

They are not gonna massively change the entire genre of the game that is already out in early access. The amount of work it takes to code the thing is literally the same as making a brand new game. No one is ever gonna do that. Ageing and succession are added cool features for immersion's sake. It's NOT a core feature. As I said before, if it's taken away and the way you play the game remained the same, then it's not a core feature. No matter how much you tell yourself it's a core feature, it's not. People wanted the option to turn it off, not remove it. You're the one who wants to turn this game into an entire different genre.

If you're looking for something like Sid Meier's Pirates, play Sid Meier's Pirates.

People here want to play Mount and Blade, not a Sid Meier's game. More features is cool, but if it means changing the entire game to another genre is a big no no. It's ridiculous to go to MnB forum asking for a Sid Meier's game and tell MnB fans to play Warband, acting as if Bannerlord should be tailor-made for you personally.

Meanwhile, here you are asking for Warband on a Bannerlord forum.

 

[duchuy613]

Meanwhile, here you are asking for Warband on a Bannerlord forum.

Because Bannerlord is a Warband's sequel? Not a Sid Meier's game? Are you sure you're not on the wrong forums? You might want to head over to Sid Meier's forums if you're looking for a Sid Meier's game sequel lol.

 

[Varrak]

It's a game about MY CHARACTER

There are already mods that stop aging on nexus, just use them, and enjoy your immersion.

 

[duchuy613]

There are already mods that stop aging on nexus, just use them, and enjoy your immersion.

There are not.

 

[Varrak]

There are not.

Actually, there are

Forever-Young (OBSOLETE)

Prevent charter from aging if you manually set them to be a teenager, child or infant.The new version of detailed character creation obsoletes this mod, use that instead

www.nexusmods.com

But seems like author got tired updating it after each patch. I'm sure someone will continue such work eventually.

 

[duchuy613]

Actually, there are

Forever-Young (OBSOLETE)

Prevent charter from aging if you manually set them to be a teenager, child or infant.The new version of detailed character creation obsoletes this mod, use that instead

www.nexusmods.com

But seems like author got tired updating it after each patch. I'm sure someone will continue such work eventually.

That's not really disable aging, that's just making the game bugged out by playing as a kid lol..

 

[Wheem]

What? No, you age about three times slower than you should.

As things stand, you never see yourself get old and die. You never see your kids grow up to take your place.

They need to accelerate ageing. If you don't like this feature, go back to Warband.

Do you really find it odd that players want a sequel to be similar to the earlier iteration(s) of the franchise? If someone was annoyed over say...a new Diehard movie being made into a Romantic Comedy, would you tell them to just go watch the original(s) and keep their mouths shut, just because you might be cool with a RomCom?

More kingdom management, diplomacy, intrigue, etc...would all be great things to have, but it doesn't mean that one needs to play a succession of different characters across multiple generations in order to have those implemented. You cited Game of Thrones, which is strange, since it didn't require 10 different generations for the main story to play out.

Ultimately, not only do I personally dislike the ageing system, I think you're going to end up being disappointed in what it offers (at least if it gets sped up in the way you want it to). It's not difficult to imagine things like greatly increased tedium due to deaths - both yours and that of NPCs - requiring a lot more focus on improving relations. And how does one do that in Bannerlord? Through some super complex system of diplomacy and intrigue, which is enjoyable every single time you do it?

While we're flippantly telling other players to go play other games, how about you go play Crusader Kings 2 (or CK3, which is on the way). If you're really after the systems that you think ageing will magically bring about, you'll find them in spades with CK2 + expansions.

 

[Averion]

I don't know as for the others, but I for one would like to play Bannerlord, and not Warband, while not having the age feature operating in my game. I'm staying with my opinion regardless.

As it's an early access game, I won't yell "refund" or whatever like there was some "no kingdom" madness going on around. That one feature can and will be modded easily, with a workaround via the developer console of main character's age modification being one available right now. I'll use that personally, because I can.

I also think that since this "core component" is being discussed quite intensively then that could be feedback upon which TaleWorlds could see about. Feedback's feedback after all.

Overall, the game's really good, and the amount of care provided by constant patching & updating is neat. Keep the good work up and don't let it stress you out!