Magic for the masses

[Worbah]

If this mod ever gets made, I think most people will atleast give it a try. First of all, every spell would have it's own spellbook, and every spellbook takes up a weapon slot, so if you make a pure magic character, he'll get 4 spell types per battle. Maybe they should reguire a certain level, instead of the 'wizard'-class. Every spell has different amount of times it can be used, denpending on the strength of it.I'm listing the spells that could be made.

Blesses and Curses
1. Trueshot. Increases the ranged proficiencies for you or one of your allies by 50. additional casts on the same target have no effect. Lasts 20 seconds.3/SB (Spellbook), ML 5(minimum level), 6 sec. CT (Cast time)

2. Fever. The weapon proficiencies of an enemy are reduced by 50. lasts 30 seconds. 4/SB, ML6, 3 sec. CT

3. Frogjump. increases your jump height and distance tremendously for ten seconds or so. Also disables fall damage. Only usable when on foot. Hilltop snipers favorite. Or you can lure the enemy cavalry into a river surrounded by cliffs, where your Vaegir Guards are patiently waiting, and you jump out. 4/SB, ML 7, 4 sec. CT

4. Slow. Halves the speed of an enemy for 20 seconds. Fairly boring, but nice when that last Black Khergit turns your infantry into pincushions. 4/SB, ML 10, 3 sec. CT

5. Hellwoad. Vaegir only.You basically have an incredibly fierce look when under this spell, and enemies of a lower level than you lose 1/4 of their attack speed.
lasts about 30 seconds. 2/SB, ML 12, 6 sec. CT

6. Mass slow. The enemy army loses 1/4 of it's speed for 30 seconds. 2/SB, ML 15, 8 sec. CT

7. Fire And Brimstone. You need stones for this spell. They start to burn, they do some 15 points of additional damage, and they have an increased chance of knockdown. Lasts as long as a single stone bag. 1/SB, ML 14, 6 sec. CT

8. Inevitability. Your soldiers don't suffer the effects of knockdown, and their attacks can't be interrupted. Lasts until the end of the round. 1/SB ML 18, 10 sec CT

9. Sons of Swadia. All of your Swadian troopers ignore 25% of hits directed at them for the rest of the round. 1/SB, ML 20, 12 sec. CT

Attack Spells:

1. Trip. You can knockdown an enemy. usefull when your troops are closing in on a powerfull foe and you want to be sure they get the first hit.
5/SB, ML 5, 3 sec. CT

2. Horsebane. Instantly kills targeted mount with a 75% probability. 4/SB, ML 8, 5 sec. CT

3. Smite. Like Trip, but does 30 points or so of damage. 3/SB, ML 12, 4 sec CT

4. Sleep. Stuns a target. 100-Targets levelx2 is the chance of this spell working. 4/SB, ML 9, 4 sec. CT

5. Boil. Basically boils a river/pond/whatever, causing 10-20 points of damage per second to those in it. Lasts 20 seconds. 1/SB, Ml 22, 8 sec. CT

6. Bedlam. All rocks explode causing 20 or so stones to fly from them. All trees tie nearby enemies down with their roots. All bodies of water evaporate causing 10 points of damage to all in them. This is the most strong spell I'm thinking about adding at the moment. 1/SB ML 25, 15 sec. CT

Summoning:

1. The Dead Walk Again. You summon 3-8 zombies, that are nearly identical with peasants and footmen/militia. The only differences are that these are slower, and they are under the effects of Inevitability. 1/SB, ML 8, 10 sec. CT

2. Dream. Summons a mount that basically is a spirited courser with increased speed and that is less affected by petty little things like gravity. Not able to fly, but you know, doesn't fall down so fast. 1/SB, ML 12, 6 sec. CT

3. Nightmare. Summons a mount that is black, has red eyes and a burning mane. Has the stats of a spirited warhorse, an in addition you are treated as having Hellwoad when mounted on a nightmare. 1/SB, ML 14, 8 sec. CT

4. Valkyrie. Vaegir only. Summons a lance bearing woman riding a Dream. Very high level weapon profiences and all. 1/SB, ML 18, 10 sec CT

This list is a WIP, more spells will be added at a later date. Feel free to comment.

EDIT1: Valkyrie, Bedlam, and Sons of Swadia added.

 

[n00854180t]

Sounds cool. I only hope we'll be able to do it. I'm not entirely sure that we'll be able to easily add effects like this.

 

[Magnus]

I would personally avoid magic being something you cast over and over again, as in i.e. Guild Wars, Dark Age of Camelot etc.

Magic is something I would concider powerful, but rare.

You may cast one fireball, and that's that. With pauses between each shot, you could use your magic in a castle siege, but an action wizard doesn't cut it for me.

To me, magic is manipulating existance.
A mage could, say, cause the roof in a castle to crumble over his enemies, entangle him in grass and vines he causes to grow under his feet, talk with the animals, turn water to ice and hurl it at enemy.

I think it's a great effort you've done here, but based on my own humble and personal opinion, it sounds like another boring Morrowind magic system.
Great efforts doesn't necessarely mean great results, unfortunately.
Meh... I'm trying my best here not to insult you in any way. I'll stop at it here

 

[Skipe]

Yup, I personally agree with Magnus. If someone adds magic to this game, it should not be something cliché (I didn't spell it right) but something like Lord Of The Rings books. Gandalf actually doesn't cast spells just like that (movies give a little bit wrong idea), casting magic is very difficult and Gandalf usually uses his brains instead of a fireball. Talks to the birds, reads weather from anything and uses special words that servants of the Dark Lord fear.

 

[okiN]

Yup, I personally agree with Magnus. If someone adds magic to this game, it should not be something cliché (I didn't spell it right) but something like Lord Of The Rings books. Gandalf actually doesn't cast spells just like that (movies give a little bit wrong idea), casting magic is very difficult and Gandalf usually uses his brains instead of a fireball. Talks to the birds, reads weather from anything and uses special words that servants of the Dark Lord fear.

Actually, you DID spell it right.

And I don't remember Gandalf casting spells left and right in the movies, either, although I do remember him throwing fireballs out of that tree in the Hobbit. I agree with you, though, if someone makes a magic mod for M&B it should be something unique, not just a generic spellcasting system.

 

[Worbah]

And if you would read the original post you'll notice that I meant it so that you could only cast a spell limited times. some of them can be cast once, and the ones that can be cast more often can only be cast like four or five times.

 

[Kelpo]

This is just my view of the whole magic thing, but I think magic should have a very dark feel on it as opposed to generic fireballs and elemental magic and all that.

I think that magic should really feel like a forbidden lore, messing with dark forces, banned by the church and all that and the spells or rituals should reflect that in the form of curses and witchcraft.

Also I don't think a wizard class would be such a good idea. I think it would be better to have a long, possibly hidden quest where something happens and you would have the option of selling your soul to get to use magic or remain pure and refrain from it. Sort of like light/dark side of the force thing.

So in effect, the setting should be religion versus magic. Religion being goodish and generally accepted but without spells and the like whilst magic might have powerful spells with the price of being hunted by the inquisition and shunned by commoners in addition to the overall feeling of wrongness.

edit: proofread

 

[okiN]

That's a great idea, exactly what I meant. I think a magic mod for for M&B should have a specific feel to it, and Kelpo's suggestion is a great way of adding character.

 

[Worbah]

This is just my view of the whole magic thing, but I think magic should have a very dark feel on it as opposed to generic fireballs and elemental magic and all that.

I think that magic should really feel like a forbidden lore, messing with dark forces, banned by the church and all that and the spells or rituals should reflect that in the form of curses and witchcraft.

Also I don't think a wizard class would be such a good idea. I think it would be better to have a long, possibly hidden quest where something happens and you would have the option of selling your soul to get to use magic or remain pure and refrain from it. Sort of like light/dark side of the force thing.

So in effect, the setting should be religion versus magic. Religion being goodish and generally accepted but without spells and the like whilst magic might have powerful spells with the price of being hunted by the inquisition and shunned by commoners in addition to the overall feeling of wrongness.

edit: proofread

good idea, although I specifically said that I too oppose both generic magic and wizard classes. If there were religions, magic could be something taught to the people closest to the deities. Here's a simple idea for three main religions. None of them is inherently good or evil, despite their names. There could be an introduction in the beginning of the game along these lines.

Life: The followers of Life believe in the flourishment of all things living. They do not shun violence, for every garden needs the cold touche of scythes and sickles to prosper. When the Vaegirs began their rebellion they were no better than the bandits that skulk the land this very day. A Vaegir army surrounded Curaw, but the Citizens held the city with a mere handfull of soldiers. The Vaegirs planned an all out attack on the city. priests that follow the path of light infiltrated the city and opened its gates to the Vaegirs. Every last citizen was raped and butchered, but the Life priests knew that had they aided in the defence the casualties on both sides had been tremendous. The suffering of few enabled the prospering of many.

Blood: The followers of Blood worship ancient, savage gods. Combat, honor and glory are the only virtues in their eyes. They wield mainly axes and cleavers, anything that makes the nectar of gods flow free. They never hesitate to step between innocents and bandits, but only because such a battle brings them glory. They care not for those who are weak enough to be trampled under their feet.

Death:The gods of death are surprisingly gentle and kind. They wish their followers to deliver as many people as possible to them, so they may celebrate eternally in the afterlife. Death followers kill all in their path. They were defending Curaw, so that as many as possible could rejoice with their gods. They view themselves as the saviors of mankind, but most others see them as madmen and murderers. The religion of Death has been outlawed for decades, but it is still practiced among high society.

 

[Maksha]

I want to see magic mods, but not magic in the actual game, and this looks to be the best planned magic mod so far ¬_¬

 

[Kelpo]

good idea, although I specifically said that I too oppose both generic magic and wizard classes.

Yes, my post wasn't meant to be strictly an answer to yours but great minds as they say generally do think alike. (I can't bring myself to use smilies but if I would, this might be a proper place for such a creature)

If there were religions, magic could be something taught to the people closest to the deities.

Hmm, here I'm beginning to become hesistant, as I originally intended "magic" to be evil by nature and an abomination in the eyes of the church.

The issue here is game balance. Magic is of course supposed to be a tempting option because it's something that wouldn't be available for you otherwise, and at this point arises the question: why would anyone choose not to employ magic?

I think religions shouldn't provide tou with any "light" magic en sich. The advantages of being a man of faith should be something different like maybe being able to take your blade to a temple to be blessed in order to make it better or having the option of hiring templars of sorts or something to that extent (and of course not being hunted by inquisitors and having lower prices at the market)

Here's a simple idea for three main religions. None of them is inherently good or evil, despite their names. There could be an introduction in the beginning of the game along these lines.

Life: The followers of Life believe in the flourishment of all things living. They do not shun violence, for every garden needs the cold touche of scythes and sickles to prosper. When the Vaegirs began their rebellion they were no better than the bandits that skulk the land this very day. A Vaegir army surrounded Curaw, but the Citizens held the city with a mere handfull of soldiers. The Vaegirs planned an all out attack on the city. priests that follow the path of light infiltrated the city and opened its gates to the Vaegirs. Every last citizen was raped and butchered, but the Life priests knew that had they aided in the defence the casualties on both sides had been tremendous. The suffering of few enabled the prospering of many.

Blood: The followers of Blood worship ancient, savage gods. Combat, honor and glory are the only virtues in their eyes. They wield mainly axes and cleavers, anything that makes the nectar of gods flow free. They never hesitate to step between innocents and bandits, but only because such a battle brings them glory. They care not for those who are weak enough to be trampled under their feet.

Death:The gods of death are surprisingly gentle and kind. They wish their followers to deliver as many people as possible to them, so they may celebrate eternally in the afterlife. Death followers kill all in their path. They were defending Curaw, so that as many as possible could rejoice with their gods. They view themselves as the saviors of mankind, but most others see them as madmen and murderers. The religion of Death has been outlawed for decades, but it is still practiced among high society.

Supposing that the religions that will be included wouldn't be really existing ones (which I think shouldn't be completely ruled out) I think that it could be something like that, even though in my opinion the contrast between them shouldn't be quite that large.

People around the world seem to have moral values of sorts and by and large they tend to be rather similar on many parts (killing=bad, stealing=bad etc.), hence the diffrences between their philosophies should be a bit more subtle. Different cults could of course exist with radical ideas about some things, but in order for the magic to be "evil" by nature, there would have to be a more or less common concept of evil between the religions.

I could try and come up with some examples of what I mean but now I must be off to plant some potatoes. Which is not fun. But then there'll be more potatoes later. Which is fun.

 

[Worbah]

I understood your first point, I just brought up another one. The magiv VS religion idea is a good one, but I don't think that an existing religion should be added if the world itself is fictional. If religion/religions were added, they should have philosophic differences, the Good&Evil setting has been overused. The world could be bleaker, and so there should rather be greed, fanatism, and rigid belief.

 

[Kelpo]

I understood your first point, I just brought up another one. The magiv VS religion idea is a good one, but I don't think that an existing religion should be added if the world itself is fictional. If religion/religions were added, they should have philosophic differences, the Good&Evil setting has been overused. The world could be bleaker, and so there should rather be greed, fanatism, and rigid belief.

Good and evil is overused in the sense of having naughty orcs fight against perfect elves or good magic versus bad magic. What I was trying to create was the views that for example christianity has toward practising occult rituals, which I think the "magic" in the game should be all about.

If someone in the middle ages had confessed that he had practised witchcraft in some form, I don't think the church would have beed all that merciful toward the poor chap. Hence the church would in a way represent the 'good' while torturing the supposed witch and selling your soul to Satan(or some other figure yet to be invented) would represent evil.

What I was trying to create was a world where evil indeed is evil in most ways, but the good certainly wouldn't be without fault themselves. They would fight fanatically against the [insert manifestation of evil] worshippers and use all methods available in order to reach their goals. Including the torture of innocents or varying amounts of corruption and the like.

 

[pere]

So why not make the magicians some mystical conspiracy, a rather secret organization with a different philosophical approach to the world and some special abilities, but considered as heretics by the church. And thus having to avoid showing off their magic when its not necessary. With magicians being to Calradia what hackers are to the internet. Some of them just fool around because they get fascinated with possibilities, others try to change the world into a better place, and others try to harm people for some reasons, but in the end they're all outlawed.

This would basically give magical characters more possibilities besides being just evil sorcerers/witches.

 

[Magnus]

I wouldn't want to concider them outlaws as much as the bandits.

More like, if you walk in crowded town, they will distant you and look strangely upon you.

Neither the Vaegris or Swadians should want any businiss with you, that is, at least not publicaly.
There could be more secret, hidden bases of both sides, and a wizard in Zendar that will give you missions.
The one in Zendar should also put you to training, in which he will take you to the woods (just as you're taken to inside a house or the arena), and will train you in casting magic against dummy targets, or illusionary soldiers.

Edit: Wouldn't one way to do it be to change models for the crossbow and bolt and replace them with a spellbook / fireball?
Sounds could be changed as well.

 

[Worbah]

Thought I'd add a few spells. When the mod tools come out, we can think about which of these are feasible.

Oh yeah, I'll add the spells to my original post.

 

[Kestenvarn]

This is just my view of the whole magic thing, but I think magic should have a very dark feel on it as opposed to generic fireballs and elemental magic and all that.

I think that magic should really feel like a forbidden lore, messing with dark forces, banned by the church and all that and the spells or rituals should reflect that in the form of curses and witchcraft.

This is pretty close to my view on it... I was hoping to make a mod with a system that would work sort of like the magic in IVAN (A Violent Road to Death.)

In that game, the character could call upon various gods, but the effects would be varied between good or bad depending on thier relationship. Calling on the God of War would give temporary effects such as enhanced strength or invulnerability, but he might just smite you if you had the gall to call on him too often or he was angered by your actions.

Also, the character didn't know how to call upon them until he stumbled across an altar or tome, and made regular offerings.

 

[Worbah]

I'm thinking about just adding actual spells and **** at the moment, I wish to keep this one as simple as possible, and probably branch it to fit the views that people have. I'm just going to make them available at Merchants', along with magical weapons and armor. I'm thinking of making it wizards-extinct-for-millenia-left-behind-a-bunch-of-spellbooks-that-people-can-use type of magic.

 

[KaL]

If your interested in a different style of magic, you might want to consider reading the Malazan Book of the Fallen series by Steven Erikson. I'll briefly explain the way magic works.

Magic is invoked through things called Warrens (Which are explained in reasonable detail in the books). They tear open Warrens and cast magic through them but it takes a great amount of effort to cast, the longer warrens are open (and the more vicious the Warren) it takes a physical toll on the mage, some mages in the books die from overuse.

There are different Warrens (essentially Spell Schools) and usually mages can only use one.

My description is fairly poor and my point isn't really gotten across very well but essentially I'm suggesting that mages should have to invoke *something* before they can Cast any spells and attempting to cast to long or too many would harm them. This would help force mages to plan their castings, sure you could run into battle ready to cast but your health would drain away very quickly, better to stand back and attack from range.

 

[Waylander918]

I crave for a magic mod, and this is perfect! Instead of all these random spells (but good ones), how about we have titles for various spell types.

Here are some basic examples.

Fire (direct damage with some damage over time, area of affects like fire storm?)

Water (direct damage with some slows, maybe some AoE like tsunami?)

Air (direct damage lightning and tornado stuff, maybe something like chain lightning?)

Earth (buffs, roots (stops player), heals, maybe some throw big rock smashy thing )

Death (medium damage spells that are lifetaps? debuffs (stuff like -STR, -AGI, etc...)

Those are just some ideas, and maybe some summoner things like you said.