M&B: what works and what not

[Questor]

I'm not an english person, my motherlanguage is italian, so I do my best.

You might like to know that "lingua madre" properly translates as "native language", to English.

when an NPC use them, they wield them like a bow, eg. they aim and then after a while, they shoot.

That is true: You see them motionless on the spot, empty-handed.
That is an area in need of some tweaking.

I'm just saying that in this game is cheesy. It's too easy to use it, and it deals too much damage, without any real downside.

With proper training and equipment, mounted knights were capable of ruling the battlefield - so I can't find it "cheesy".
The unbalancing point is: NPCs won't use lances to the full extent.
And that's an AI issue, not a balancing problem.

You might want to search the thread about NPC-wielded lances; just everybody agrees on that point.

Also, if foes could plant spears/pikes, knights wouldn't rule the battlefield as much.
Again, this is an AI foible.
Lance per se is balanced. Training time needed to wield it isn't.
But would you really want to spend time *training* instead of actually playing?

NPC use lance mediocrely and that's not a real nuisance, but if you make a lanced knight, hey, everything is too easy. It's like cheating sometimes.

It really depends on your difficulty settings and the foes you're currently facing.
Try charging a group of Swadian crossbowmen...

Maybe piercing weapons *should* halve armor, but they do not do it.

Picks couple swinging action with piercing damage; they should be very effective, I agree on that.

On armors I would like to add: it's not very pleasant to see when you wear a black armor, a lot of 0 damage hits.

Plate armour was like that, deflecting most non impaling attacks.
When endurance/stamina is being featured in, zero-damage attacks will probably be addressed.

In real life you can be an invulnerable tin-can, but they will mob you and drag down, that's a game, a lot of 1 hit blows will make more scary to charge between 6 footman, increasing challenge.

Attacks stun you regardless of damage; that is a balancing factor.
Of course, since they can't physically pull you down from the horse, you are somewhat safe.

I still think you should raise your difficulty gauge.

Lastly: the purple coif. No, it doesn't matter, but it's somewhat funny. Every padded is brown, except for that, maybe it's a mistake or an overlooking.

Purple is fashionable this year, over Swadia.

 

[leprechaun]

Seriously though. Who here has not been unbelievably p(eed - Editor) off when one of their soldiers gets in the way? Has to be the most annoying thing, not couched lances or which colour's in Vogue for armour. PLEASE SOMEONE PUT IN A "GET THE HELL* OUT OF MY WAY" BUTTON!





*or words to that effect

 

[Yoshiboy]

i think polearms should become couched when standing still on the ground. LIke pushed against the ground and out. THat would be a big advantage against horses.

 

[Elias_Maluco]

I guess weapons are indeed a bit unbalanced now, specially polearms and blutn weapons; and couched lance should be a little harde to hit. But the real problem is the AI overall stupidity.

They cant use lances properly, as a matter of fact, they use a horse properly, the enemy are so bad as horseman that they are actually weaker when mounted. And hell, they are not terribly sdmart as infantry neither. The only weapons that the AI is less stupid to use are the bow and the crossbow, and only when on foot, and even that should be improved.

Ah, if "M&B" had multi-player combat! Then we really would see how balanced or unbalanced the weapons are.

 

[Daimyo]

It really depends on your difficulty settings and the foes you're currently facing.
Try charging a group of Swadian crossbowmen...

Well, not so difficult after all: don't forget you have the shield. Try doing it with a 2h axe...

.
Attacks stun you regardless of damage; that is a balancing factor.
Of course, since they can't physically pull you down from the horse, you are somewhat safe.

I still think you should raise your difficulty gauge.

It's already at maximum, both on difficulty and on battle size.

I wished to agree with Elias on the bow-wielding capacity of NPCs. I've noticed this with my mounted Borcha: he develops a profound handicap when wielding a bow on horseback, while he's very skilled when on foot.
Another odd thing is that NPCs *never* use crossbows while on horseback. If you equip Marnid with just crossbow and bolts and give him an horse, he will wander pointlessly around the map, equipping it only when ordered to dismount.

 

[DaLagga]

Mounted lance: as someone else already said, it's overkill. You can fight with a 2h weapon while on horseback and deal lots of damage, still you're never sure if you will kill your foe or not if he's armored, and hitting him is still somewhat difficult as he can parry you (and if he's an archer it's a very dangerous business). With a couched lance, he cannot parry, damage is over 100+ (ergo instant kill, always), it's easier to aim, and you can wield a shield while charging. Cheesy.

Am i the only one that think the lance is underpowered if anything? Sure, it's a great weapon in the arena, but in large battles, especially trying to solo, its usefulness drops considerably. Its worthless against large groups, because when you go to lance someone, the guy next to him will slash you as you ride by...cancelling your attack not to mention hurting like hell. Also, you've got to consider the fact that you must be charging full speed for it to work and there's a significant delay after a hit before you can strike again, which means you're probably only going to get 1 guy per pass at most. So you charge, kill one guy, then have to turn around and repeat leaving you open to missile attacks. Where as with a 2hander on horseback, you can kill 3-4 in a single pass, and if they don't die for some reason, they're hurt badly and have most likely lost their horse if they happened to be mounted. You can also just circle the enemy group slashing away with little fear of retaliation because you have greater reach. Also, the lance is actually very hard to aim when the AI decides to do its little sidestep whirlwind on you, in which case you miss(just like enemy archers do in the arena sometimes when you close the range, making them nearly impossible to catch and hit). So lets see, very low damage over time, leaves you open to attack on the sides, leaves you vulnerable to missles while turning around, can't be used on foot if you're mount dies, and sometimes is impossible to land a hit because of an AI glitch. I really fail to see how the lance is better in any way than a 2hander while on horseback, aside from the fact that you can carry a shield with it.

 

[Questor]

Well, not so difficult after all: don't forget you have the shield. Try doing it with a 2h axe...

Ah, that's a good point.
I actually prefer two-handed swords, though; long reach makes them decent in the horse busting department, on foot.

It's already at maximum, both on difficulty and on battle size.

Heheh...
I guess you've outplayed M&B then.

When a char either becomes too powerful, or too boring, I start all over again, and play-test another char-build.
I've created and played about 4 different chars and I alternate them as whim strikes.

If you equip Marnid with just crossbow and bolts and give him an horse, he will wander pointlessly around the map, equipping it only when ordered to dismount.

I usually tell my guys to dismount as they join the fray, anyway; this helps cause I can track my chest down easily, and they won't wander around aimlessly.

Also, ranged troops are better off on foot anyway.
And since knights won't couch their lances, they are pretty useless to me as mounted troops.

I guess these all are AI-related issues to be addressed in future releases.

 

[Wood]

I think that the lance is naff and boring. A VERY ANNOYING BUG when not looking perfectly straight is that the lance lumps uncontrolably. This makes the lance useless when not on perfectly flat ground, not by design but by a stupid bug. This is naff. And as lowering the lance is automatic and aim has to be straight ahead to work useing the lance is very boring. I once took down an entire group of pirates using only one hand and eating breakfast at the same time. This is boring. If the lance was manual, could aim side to side and up and down, didn't bug and looked sensible when holing a shield up, then I might consider taking up the lance again.

 

[scaddenp]

Batles in M&B are skirmishes so I think that translating data from army battles is not a good move. One person with a pike is not particularly effectively. Pikes rule in well-drilled formations. In singles it too easy to
defect and get inside. Couched lance is devastating also in knee-to-knee charge but still effective if target cant easily duck or deflect.

I am also a little shy on the "cavalry rulez" bit. There is no denying the
advantages of mobility and weight but much of the cavalry success seem to be proof that armoured warriors beat bunches of peasants. When the infantry can be protected by spikes, caltrops, ditches, then cavalry has trouble. Horse can fair badly against missles too.

However, in a skirmish situation, I think cavalry advantages certainly weigh in. Not easy for infantry to find protection, moving too fast for accurate missile fire etc.

 

[Sir Prince]

MAYBE *hits shift key*.
And, I've noticed that the ai throws weapons from half way across the map. And hits....

 

[leprechaun]

I never have any problems with my lance and routinely get hits even when not looking straight forward, and hired blades couch their lances.
I know this for sure because I had a huge army of them and know their strengths and weaknesses well, although they aren't always accurate with them, but they often get one-hit kills with couched lances. I also get couched lance damage from enemy AI, but this is not often because I use a great lance which is one of the longest weapons in the game.