M&B had peaked with F&S, apparently

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That is just arguing symantics though as some people clearly do still use the term. I and many others still prefer the term "the dark ages" to "early middle ages" and it's just as accurate as long as both parties know as to when you are referring. It's no different that referring to a soft drink as soda pop, soda, pop, or a soft drink. Different terms all referring to the same thing spoken by different circles. I'm sure in another 10-15 years they'll be calling it something else, as well as something else in 20-30 more. Regardless I think we both know what's being discussed here.
Seems goofy to on one hand 1)Argue for a need for increased historical accuracy and 2)Use an outdated term dismissed by current historiography. Like pick a lane.

Dark Ages as a term is quite different from calling soda as pop because it is Eurocentric in focus. Other places in the world such as Muslim societies, Japan, China, etc. were experiencing flowering of culture, science and society at the time so calling that period of history the dark ages in a way dismisses these accomplishments because they didn't occur in Europe.
 

xdj1nn

Knight
WBWF&S
I was reading some articles on M&B Fire and Sword wiki (never played it myself), and realised just how many features that've been suggested lately are mentioned and present in the game. How in-depth they are - whether they even exist - I don't know. To give some examples (add 'apparently' to all these sentences):

- Mercenary camps, where you can hire mercenaries talking to the captain and CUSTOMIZE THE GEAR OF YOUR MERCENARIES??? WHAT MORE HAVE I MISSED OUT ON? Well there's more ...

-
Wai- wha really? You can what?

-
AAAH STOP IT HURTS

-
Okay well they added at least two of these, I hope we can expect to see the other ones and more soon then? Right? Right TW? You're working on it right?

-

There are- There are commanders? And mercenary captains? If I had read this some months ago I would probably think these features were from the future Bannerlord. Where the **** were all these features in Warband, IN BANNERLORD (but they're coming soon I hope, thanks to TW's excellent communication with the community about their plans and goals I feel assured and motivated to support the game further, right?)


- Regional Mercenaries: specific for certain Towns and Fortresses.

Region-specific units? No ****ing way.




That's it, if these articles are true, then M&B has peaked years ago. And I didn't even know it. Unless the author was trolling. I would've said it couldn't get any better but since Taleworlds have been so communicative in telling us about the development process I've no doubt Bannerlord will surpass any M&B game in no time. Just as soon as they're done with making the game less fun.
most, if not all, of those features never really worked as planned, they were clunky and really poorly implemented. The best DLC Singleplayer for Warband is Viking Conquest, and it also has some serious flaws. To me those features sound awesome on paper, they really do, here's to hoping that BL gets them properly this time around.
 

Jhaerik

Banned
Seems goofy to on one hand 1)Argue for a need for increased historical accuracy and 2)Use an outdated term dismissed by current historiography. Like pick a lane.

Dark Ages as a term is quite different from calling soda as pop because it is Eurocentric in focus. Other places in the world such as Muslim societies, Japan, China, etc. were experiencing flowering of culture, science and society at the time so calling that period of history the dark ages in a way dismisses these accomplishments because they didn't occur in Europe.

1) I wasn't arguing for increased historical accuracy. I was arguing for a more interesting setting.
2) There is no such thing as an outdated term. Last I checked there isn't a global and universally accepted governing body on word usage. By your own logic I could say that you shouldn't be using the word "goofy" or starting sentences with "Like." You should by modern standard be calling me a "Boomer" and using some acronym someone came up with 12 minutes ago on twitter. If you want to cite outdated means of communication I'd like to point out your post didn't include a single link to a meme.
 
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mrtats

Regular
M&BWBWF&SNW
2) There is no such thing as an outdated term. Last I checked there isn't a global and universally accepted governing body on word usage. By your own logic I could say that you shouldn't be using the word "goofy" or starting sentences with "Like." You should by modern standard be calling me a "Boomer" and using some acronym someone came up with 12 minutes ago on twitter. If you want to cite outdated means of communication I'd like to point out your post didn't include a single link to a meme.
There is though, and the guy you are replying included that governing body. Historiography professors.
 

mrtats

Regular
M&BWBWF&SNW
That's not a governing body. That's a group of people very much afraid of losing their jobs if they say anything that isn't PC due to people being so easily offended these days. It's part of the modern brainwashing that requires everything to be relabeled to erase any chance of a word pissing off someone with overly thin skin. Personally I don't much give a crap. :smile: If it walks like a duck, and whacks like a duck, it's a duck.
Nah, mate. It just shows your education is lacking. We have much more data about how much technological progress there were in Europe during the Middle Ages.
 

Jhaerik

Banned
Nah, mate. It just shows your education is lacking. We have much more data about how much technological progress there was in Europe during the Middle Ages.

You can be educated in a subject without agreeing with it. Hell we live in a time where education in a simple Google search away. I just don't think ones opinion should change every time X percentage of people disagree with you. That seems to be the modern trend. People label anyone they disagree with as "uneducated."
 

Jhaerik

Banned
>


No offense man but it seems like you're the only guy getting offended here. I'm just stating what scholars and medieval experts say about the term dark ages - sorry that's so offensive for you. The worldview you've constructed doesn't make sense: There is a group of extremely weak people who can't say the truth because they will lose their jobs but at the same time they are so powerful as to control the viewpoint of history and language across the world. Is this PC mafia super weak or super powerful? I don't get it.

I'm saying that there are other scholars and medieval experts who support the usage of the term "dark ages" I happen to agree with them.

The premise of calling Middle Ages, Dark Ages started with the notion that there was a societal collapse, no cultural or technological development in Europe. Today, we know that such a notion was not true. There were cultural and technological advances and there was no societal collapse. This means your education is not up to date and lacking, which makes your education questionable at best.

Again there are those of comparable backgrounds who do not in fact agree with this. If you want to reduce history and education to a popularity contest then I don't know much what to say to you.

I would recommend taking this elsewhere to discuss however and to stop hijacking threads. I don't believe this is the correct forum to argue semantics.
 

adrakken

Sergeant
M&BWBNWVCWF&S
I thought you believed in constructive posting?
:roll:
Actions always speak louder than self report.

Your comment would only have merit if the OP had made a constructive argument, which he did not. This is one in a long line of threads that have made this board near pointless. I get better discussions on Nexus without any of the trolling or complaints the game isnt in a near completed state.
 

Meraun

Regular
Lol, dude, if you ever had played it.. i have 1k hours on Warband... and like 10 in FS... and 130h in Bannerlord alteady. It wasnt nearly as good
 

adrakken

Sergeant
M&BWBNWVCWF&S
The premise of calling Middle Ages, Dark Ages started with the notion that there was a societal collapse, no cultural or technological development in Europe. Today, we know that such a notion was not true. There were cultural and technological advances and there was no societal collapse. This means your education is not up to date and lacking, which makes your education questionable at best.

That is incorrect as the term is used by different historians for different reasons. It was the Dark Ages because of the Religious approach towards reason and learning which is why the end with the age of ENLIGHTENment. Then some use it because of the near complete LACK OF HISTORICAL records hence we are in the "dark" about events in that time period... lol...so about that "education" comment of yours...haha


 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
WFaS was not good. It has some nice features grafted on but... it was overall Warband in a rather unique setting, but somehow worse.
 
That is just arguing symantics though as some people clearly do still use the term. I and many others still prefer the term "the dark ages" to "early middle ages" and it's just as accurate as long as both parties know as to when you are referring. It's no different that referring to a soft drink as soda pop, soda, pop, or a soft drink. Different terms all referring to the same thing spoken by different circles. I'm sure in another 10-15 years they'll be calling it something else, as well as something else in 20-30 more. Regardless I think we both know what's being discussed here.

I disagree, its not just "semantics".
Bad terminology leads to bad and sloppy thinking. Language is a tool that should be used with care and precision.
There's a reason why people who study this stuff for a living choose to use different terminology.

You're free to use an outdated laypersons term - that's entirely your business - but the insistence and defense of gives the impression that your entire attitude towards the period is laden with your own biased disinterest in it. Its fine to find some things more interesting than others, its the charade that this is somehow anything beyond personal fancy is silly.

In my industry, if you show up and use language we stopped used 30 years ago because "you know what I mean" I'm going to think you're sloppy and incompetent and liable to cause an accident. Thankfully, internet disagreements don't really have any tangible consequences when you're sloppy with them.
 
That is incorrect as the term is used by different historians for different reasons. It was the Dark Ages because of the Religious approach towards reason and learning which is why the end with the age of ENLIGHTENment. Then some use it because of the near complete LACK OF HISTORICAL records hence we are in the "dark" about events in that time period... lol...so about that "education" comment of yours...haha



Read the last paragraph of the very article you linked.
 

Kangamangus

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I had stability issues with Fire & Sword. I really liked the game, aside from the crashes. I thought there was a lot more story. Companions seemed a little more developed as well.
 

adrakken

Sergeant
M&BWBNWVCWF&S
Read the last paragraph of the very article you linked.

So if a thing is not upheld by 100% of all historians...no one upholds it and it magically makes everything else other historians say magically disappear and not exist...So long, thanks for placing yourself into the same uneducated category as the person I replied to.
 
Lol, dude, if you ever had played it.. i have 1k hours on Warband... and like 10 in FS... and 130h in Bannerlord alteady. It wasnt nearly as good
I'm emphasizing the ideas they tried to implement. The fact that they even made an attempt to add those features mean they realize their potential which gives me hope now that people are once again suggesting those features be added to Bannerlord and even suggestions as to how it could be implemented. There is no excuse not to.

And by the way, I too have played Bannerlord for around 150 hours now but I almost never play the singleplayer mode again, the recent patches have disappointed me even further to the point where I only play BL to duel for an hour or two and leave. Whereas in Warband I would happily spend my days in front of the screen even in singleplayer. Actually I probably still would it's just that I don't have the time unfortunately.

Bannerlord just got boring really quick and if they don't surprise us - in a good way - soon, I don't see myself visiting BL SP any more for the year.
 

Jhaerik

Banned
I disagree, its not just "semantics".
Bad terminology leads to bad and sloppy thinking. Language is a tool that should be used with care and precision.
There's a reason why people who study this stuff for a living choose to use different terminology.

You're free to use an outdated laypersons term - that's entirely your business - but the insistence and defense of gives the impression that your entire attitude towards the period is laden with your own biased disinterest in it. Its fine to find some things more interesting than others, its the charade that this is somehow anything beyond personal fancy is silly.

In my industry, if you show up and use language we stopped used 30 years ago because "you know what I mean" I'm going to think you're sloppy and incompetent and liable to cause an accident. Thankfully, internet disagreements don't really have any tangible consequences when you're sloppy with them.

In my industry if you show up to work and start criticizing everyone's method of speech and word choice you'd be in the unemployment line tomorrow. I'd go as far as to say that goes for most lines of work. :smile:
 

mrtats

Regular
M&BWBWF&SNW
In my industry if you show up to work and start criticizing everyone's method of speech and word choice you'd be in the unemployment line tomorrow. I'd go as far as to say that goes for most lines of work. :smile:
There is "method of speech" and willful ignorance, yours is the latter.
 

adrakken

Sergeant
M&BWBNWVCWF&S
In my industry if you show up to work and start criticizing everyone's method of speech and word choice you'd be in the unemployment line tomorrow. I'd go as far as to say that goes for most lines of work. :smile:

You clearly do not work in an industry where communication is important which just so happens to include most of the high paying jobs.


There is "method of speech" and willful ignorance, yours is the latter.

His method of speech was not wrong and you were the ignorant one which is why you ignored my post proving you wrong.
 
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