M&B Combat discussion.

[JoshRose]

Recently I was browsing through the PS2 section at Blockbuster and saw a game called "Spartan: Total Warrior." When looking at the back, and seeing battlefields full of fighters, my first thought was "I wonder if the combat is anything like M&B?" Of course, there was little chance of that. Turns out, it was very arcadish, and I'm leaping through the air, killing 10 guys at a time, and using magic powers, etc. It's a bit of mindless fun, but I am really suprised that there are virtually no games that have a battle system nearly as fun as M&B.

When you think about it, it's not that complex, it seems like a fairly simple formula really. I just don't understand why other developers haven't constructed engines like this. You would think that games along the lines of morrowind or gothic would incorporate some similar tactics, rather than having the battle systems be so bare bones. I like morrowind and gothic BTW, i just think M&B has far superior combat.

Anyways, thinking of a game with the combat system of M&B, made by a major studio, with multiplayer and next gen graphics... it makes my head spin. Why doesn't something along these lines exist already?

 

[Manu]

Because in the game indsutry, decisions to develop or not develop are amde by commercial directors, who decide what to pick on the bells and whitles (nifty graphics, cool artworks..) tather than gamer-friendly (gameplay, game lore etc) features.

Which means a game which lacks the first but is loaded to to the gills with the second (good game in any serious gamer book) won't get picked above the flashy moneytraps -
Remeber the name of the game in the industry is not to make something good, it's to make something that sells as many copies as fast as posible. Making a good product is a mean to this end but not the only one. And unfortunately, it's a difficult to spot one so it tends to be a bit forgotten in the process.

 

[thesneakster]

I think that if any publisher was smart they would buy the publishing right's, give the develper (can't think of his name) a cool graphics engine and then sell it on teh shop's, i'm sure it would make a lot of money

 

[<deniz>]

Do you really think that the graphics problem is that critical? It is of course a matter of choice, and depends on what you would like to see/have/etc. But I wouldn't care if M&B's graphics were bit worse than now as long as I play the same game!

I liked what chaos wrote in some other topic:

I will be dissapointed if to play in 1.0 version i will need:

pentium IVx2
2GB RAM ( or more)
Accelerator graphic Card with 1GB RAM ect. ect.

 

[chaos]

I think straight : M&B is good game ( excellent with all these mods) so ...
it should bring good profits to creators ( they did and doing great job isnt it ?), and should be hit in shops ( should ...but history says that is not THAT simple ..few great games left without echoes ). Anyway Taleworlds made a great move with selling beta version at half cost ( anyway this beta is better then lot of released full games, so we can expect thant final version will be even better ya?). I think the popularity of MB is growing up Fine ...more players on forum means more mods, ideas, more fun,more popularity of game at all of this means more players ... and again
Nice isnt it ?

 

[Dynamite_cow]

Yes. I'm damn glad I bought the game quite early, as the price gets higher as the game gets better - but now I get free updates!

Also, the more there is people who have registered with no problem and liked what they got, the more likely even more people will trust that this is no scam and buy the game. Then, they like it, and tell their friends to buy it too...

A big publisher company would mean fancy pancy graphics but practically nothing else. EA or some company like that would propably ditch the combat system because 'it is too complicated'

I personally like the graphics, and when you add mods in that, they are excellent. And the game sure was worth that 15 euros I paid for it, much better than some games I've paid 50 euros for.

 

[TheMany]

to be honest, the graphics kill my computer as they are now, so im more then happy with their current state.

 

[Lord Jaden]

ha total warrior beat it in a week on hard, that game is something i like to call "button-masher" a.k.a. press as many buttons at a time as you can and you'll end up causing concentrated armageddon...surprisingly the closest game i've played that had MB fighting style was chronicles of riddick: escape from butcher bay, and that what set thousands of years in the future! but im an alltime fan of the Elderscrolls and i'm gonna have to say that is similar in the IDEA of fighting, but no as complex, except for the new one comin out TES OBLIVION! ----oftopic....later.

 

[Garth]

I would actually like fewer polygons and more detail and smoothing out in the graphics- I love Hardclyff's battle meter increaser, and I would love to have more than 40 troops on the field at once and move at faster than a frame per second. In fact, I tend to imagine medieval battles as a lot bigger and more chaotic (and taking place over an entire battlefield, not just in one chaotic melee mob in the center of the field) than they are now.

It's what you do with the graphics just as much as how high the polygon count is, no?

Yes.

Victory.

Cha-ching!


As for why companies don't just make high-quality thorough games, Manu's got it right. EA isn't exactly in it for the charity; you make more money off two hyped-up mediocre games than you do off of spending lots of time and effort (which both equal money) on a single good game.

Though at some point it's going to make a full circle: if everyone's making hyped-up mediocre games, then to get ahead, wouldn't you have to make a hyped-up good game? Someone should try that. Just for kicks.

 

[Dread_AUS]

Look at all the games out there with the eye-candy......gameplay basically sucks and you can finish it in only a few sessions. You could then go online and play multiplayer and cop the abuse of 14 year old script kiddies haxoring and running scripts to cheat and kill you from behind a building, whilst prone and straffing sideways from 3 clicks away whilst they are looking the other way........

Lets face it, M&B owns.

I wouldn't want any large publisher touching it......quickest way to ruin it.....

 

[Felklaw]

Honestly, I also love the graphics.

Worst case, turn on hardware forced 4x AA and you have super sweet graphics.

And when it comes down to the crux of it, and you have 20 Dark Hunters and 20 Sea Raiders all trying to make you into a pin cushion, who has time to stop and stare at the graphics !

Me, I'm busy running from Marnid and Borcha's 'stray' arrows !

 

[Deus Ex]

I wouldn't want any large publisher touching it......quickest way to ruin it.....

DAMN STRAIGHT -

I think this is the leading edge of a new software development and funding model - has a bit of an open source feel to it with all the involvment from the community...

But as for marketing, I say keep on with the way it is going. when you start trying to get it out in the shops suddenly you start having marketing and distribution overhead, and contract issues, and all kinds of sh*t.

People are more connected now - and a pure internet distribution model should work. I think we may be participating in a new "model" for software funding/development/release..

just a thought...

DE

 

[JoshRose]

Ok, uhh, this thread turned into a discussion about eye candy. For the record, I love M&B the way it is, and I have absolutely no problem with the graphics. In fact, I was very impressed when I first installed it, because I have played independant games before, and the graphics here blow most of those away.

So I wasn't really tring to say M&B needs better graphics, I was really just trying to spark conversation on why some bigger publishers don't have combat systems that are similar. It seems very logical to allow you to block with your shiled, parry with your sword, etc... but most sword fighting games don't even have these simple commands, you just button mash till things die.

And I wasn't saying that a big publisher using the game engine would be awesome because of the graphics... it would be awesome because they could have giant multi-player servers and accomplsih some things that a single guy couldn't manage, while still keeping the core gameplay intact.

 

[barbaros]

I see your point and I couldn't agree more. I have played a lot of games but I haven't seen a very good combat system in my all life. Of course M&B also is not perfect (yet!) but it is closest to perfection I have seen so far. Here are a few words I wrote down when I was angry with the big developers

I hate pure stat based combat engines like in Morrowind or Diablo series. I always feel deceived by those games, taken as a fool. In Diablo for example, if you play as fighter, you do nothing but hitting the mouse button and the game calculates things in the background , you miss or hit. You can't use your shield actively etc. In Morrowind, my character swings his sword, I see the animation that I hit succesfully, but it says "missed". Do they think I am blind or stupid?. Did my sword pass through him as if he is a ghost?. And they use the cheap tactic of increasing the HP of creatures to insane amounts to make them difficult to kill. How come I start the game with 20HP and I have 200-300HP towards the end?. Did I mutated or what?.

Though I am not saying that those are bad games, in fact they are good except the combat mechanics. But in my opininon combat mechanics is sooo important that, without a good combat all of the good graphics or huge world of Morrowind means nothing to me. Because the combat is the heart of all thing.

 

[Raz]

age of conan will have such a combat system! An online rpg, with horses and mounted combat, recruiting armies, formations, single/multiplayer player online, pvp, uhhhhhh oh yeah and buying land!

A nice game to keep an eye peeled for.

http://www.ageofconan.com

 

[Lu Bu]

Lets see what the Conan Game will be when its finished.

It could become great, but also just a new crappy mmorpg.

 

[Vachir]

It's most similar to a fighting game IMHO. Try Soul Caliber and the like some time, it's basically similar except without all the special moves and combination attacks. I'd actually like to see M&B go more in this direction, not to the point of being unrealistic, but speeding things up and adding in ways of getting more than the basic left->right, right->left, up->down, and thrust attacks and blocks we have now.

I'm not surprised other game developers haven't gone this route (Roma Victor seems similar though). Publishers sit around playing the game of embrace, extend, destroy, never willing to risk the millions of dollars that go into a modern off the shelf game on 'new and different', instead relying on the mediocrity of rehashes of the same old thing to stay out of the red.

 

[Lu Bu]

Combo Attacks and such things, might seem nice on the first glance, but the game would have to be changed in major ways to include such a thing right.

I really dont think such a thing would work right now.