Lost Notables again ...

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Started a new game version e1.5.1. I completed the quests of noble people in the villages where they were (and when there was enough time), in order to obtain elite troops (Battanian archers, imperial and Vlandish heavy cavalry). Most of all, I liked the quests with training troops and transporting animals to the other side of the map.) Even more, I liked seeing the same tasks from the same NPCs for the next month ... (it was sarcasm). Well, I definitely didn't like it, so half of the NPCs with elite troops, on which I spent time, were lost after two years of play ... Instead of them, new NPCs appeared in half of the villages that allow you to recruit lvl 1 units ...
Now in my game 1085, and now you cannot recruit archers in Battania ... There are no archers in Battania, in Battania, Karl!
I don't understand what the mechanic with lost notables is for? To turn the game into a permanent grind with quests? Moreover, useless, as it turns out later ... The game already has enough problems with the economy, workshops and diplomacy, and now elite units cannot be recruited yet ... I also don’t understand how new mechanics that have not been tested and not finalized from the beta can be recruited enter into the main version of the game.
P.S. If anyone knows which game file contains the Lost Notables trigger, please tell me.
 
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Yes and there are some serious balance issues with some of the quests given the way notables disappear.

For example, "Landowner needs access to other village commons". This quest will help the landowner in one of your villages, by hurting and annoying a headsman in another one of your villages. Well, guess what, if you don't do the quests, this hurts your landowners. For each day a quest is unsolved the landowner would lose some power. So you have to do the quest. I guess this just means I need to do quests for the headsman in my other village to balance it out right? Guess again. This headsman is one of several notables in the game that for some reason never have an issue, and for that reason, never offer a quest. Does the landowner ever offer a different quest or face a different issue? No. I have seen those that sometimes have more than one quest, but most of the time they don't. So I do this quest for the landowner several times and eventually the headsman is lost because their power is too low. No one comes to replace the headsman. That village has been without a headsman ever since. The other village with the landowner? Well, now that the headsman whose lands they always targeted has disappeared, they never offer another quest. I am stuck at the 24 relation points I have with them. I continue to stop back into these two villages regularly but nothing ever changes and no further issues have arrived. In addition, my daily profit from village b is less now that it doesn't have a headsman.

So in essence the game penalizes you if you do the quest, and penalizes you if you don't do the quest. Of all the annoying things in this game, this really takes it to another level. We all complained that the quests were pointless and a grind. TW's response is to create this notables disappearing issue to force you now to grind the quests or suffer. Oh but guess what, even if you do grind the quests you may still suffer. Thanks TW.

Edit: P.S. forgot to mention that the power of the notable is what determines whether or not they might disappear, I just implied that you would already know this but maybe not. Also, 200 power is what the landowner needs to offer noble troops.
 
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Can confirm, my char is 51 now and almost every village has only 1 notable
I'm 3.5 years in and I have 3 castles and 1 town and all but one of my villages have only 1 notable. I see npc lords sitting in my villages waiting for troops to respawn. It's good in the fact that it keeps bandits down but it sucks to try to get recruits before the npc lords do.
 
I don't know whose idea it was to force you to do quests by making notables lose power for unsolved issues, but it was an epically bad idea. The fiefs also lose prosperity too since it seems the devs really want to rub our noses in it.

In my current game, I'm at clan tier 5 and own a city and 2 castles. My city's losing prosperity because of unsolved issues, so I decide to solve them. Turns out its a caravan escort mission and none of my companions have the skills to meet the stupid requirements so I stupidly agree to take it myself. Big mistake. Since I'm tier 5, I have to follow them to 6 freaking towns. Who's got time to escort a caravan to 6 towns in the middle of a 3-front war?

Look, I'm already well incentivised to do lots of quests already. Expanding the recruit pool is a big enough carrot to get me to do it. There's no need for a stick. But there are some quests that i never ever want to do again, but now I feel like I'm forced to do them all.
 
There seems to be way to many notables issues at one time. It seems like they have increased the chance of issues popping up, not to mention all the new quests. I think they also reduced the chance for lords to resolve these issues too. Nearly every settlement I go to there is some c-word with an issue.
Their power levels just end up plummeting.
This issue needs fixing or games get to points where there are no notables left to have issues.
 
I think went 10 years without seeing the deserter extortion quest.

I just assumed those deserters had killed off those notables as a result of some deep and meaningful game design.

Turns out all the notables just wandered off as a result of deeply troubled game development.

Almost the same. Just change your perspective!
 
If I am to give a more general reply since they are more or less about the game balance, it is an extremely demanding task to balance out a game with so many different aspects into it. We do not want the community to do the testing for us that is why we are working so hard to find and examine each outcome of every small touch and change that we can possibly do. At the same time, we are keeping a close eye on player feedback as well. Hopefully the outcome will be able the please as many players as possible :smile:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
This must be so brutal for the Devs at TW.

I’ve led so many excellent project teams in both highly functioning and highly dysfunctional environments, and when your team is set-up to FAIL it’s a terrible predicament for the team members.
But it´s their own fault. They also could easily fix it, just involve us, the community, more.

Mexxico did it several times, the last time with his AI thread and what was the result? A better campaign AI balance. There was a good discussion a lot of users have thrown in good ideas, that´s how EA should work.

I´m not talking about that they should give us internal test builds but just to ask us for our opinion about upcoming changes (of course not for every minor change like a new sheep texture :wink: )

But they do it the other way around, change whatever, wait for feedback and then maybe revert / rework that change. Or just ignore the feedback, depends on the topic of course. Not everything they change is wrong or bad of course, but they made a lot of mistakes...at least in my opinion.
 
I'm glad that at least we all seem to be on the same page regarding how bad this feature is, at least in its current state. Honestly a lot of the work they have done with quests has made them worse for me... My favorite quests like deserters are less often available, but not a little less, they are super rare now and were widely available before. Somewhere in between would be much better. Additional quests are great, but when you add bugged ones like Inn and Out quest, and have to complete the bugged quest or your notables lose power... And when some of the quests like Train troops have requirements where you need to have room for troops available, or the completion of the quest has a consequence, like Landowner needs access to other village commons I mentioned above, it is better if these quests don't affect prosperity and power while waiting to be resolved.

So if they made it so that only some quests affected prosperity and/or power while waiting to be resolved, such as village needs seed grain for example, or deserters, where it actually makes a lot of sense, I would be pretty cool with that. Those two quests for example are not a grind, and really you are kind of a turd if you don't feed your people and keep them safe from deserters. However, all these silly, long, and grindy quests - they should not have this mechanic.
 
But it´s their own fault. They also could easily fix it, just involve us, the community, more.
Exactly. Devs and community together would've made the great game. Sadly, we have very few devs that are communicating and taking into account suggestions and ideas from community. But the rest of the dev team sits silently, making something (they'll never tell us what are they working on) and just push another update. I remember perfectly, when they were about to develop the "Make war/peace votes" system, they've deleted the 25 days of truce WITHOUT implementing the new system. The community was against it, mexxico was against it, but they deleted it nevertheless. It was returned after some time, but for that period of time the game was simply unplayable.
 
You can only include the community so much otherwise there will be too many opinions and ideas flying around. Nothing would get done. These people want this. Those people want that etc. Those that don't get their way would get butthurt. Sometimes you just need to crack on with it.
 
I don't understand what the mechanic with lost notables is for? To turn the game into a permanent grind with quests? Moreover, useless, as it turns out later ... The game already has enough problems with the economy, workshops and diplomacy, and now elite units cannot be recruited yet ... I also don’t understand how new mechanics that have not been tested and not finalized from the beta can be recruited enter into the main version of the game.

Just keep bug reporting it.
 
Just keep bug reporting it.
No don’t.

I reported the same bug in multiple versions (makes sense right?) and was told politely to f*ck off. Separate campaign, separate save file, separate version.

Apparently the Devs are “aware” that they are releasing multiple versions with the same bugs being carried forward and don’t need additional player feedback.

So let me save you the trouble and save the Devs the trouble of telling you they don’t need or want your feedback.

Just your money.
 
I personally like the concept of notables' power changing dynamically, but it still needs some additional balancing, polishing, and transparency (which will come with time).
How do notables gain power without player input? I have seen notables with over 800 power, have also seen some with less than -100. Theres just no consistency.
 
You can only include the community so much otherwise there will be too many opinions and ideas flying around. Nothing would get done. These people want this. Those people want that etc. Those that don't get their way would get butthurt. Sometimes you just need to crack on with it.
But it´s the same result if they don´t include us? Some people want this and some want that. But as they doing it know everyone is left in the dark until they change something. So where is the difference when it comes to the result?

In my opinion a lot of bad decisions could be prevented if they talk to us, like removing the peace period a long time ago without any replacement system to replace it.
 
How do notables gain power without player input? I have seen notables with over 800 power, have also seen some with less than -100. Theres just no consistency.
There's a lot to it. I made a post about it here:
Alright, here are a bunch of details on how the notable power system works (as of beta 1.5.1) just to shed some light on it.

First of all, there is a universal power decay modifier for all notables each day depending on current power level. The more powerful the notable, the greater the daily decay. The lower bound of this decay is 100 power. Under 100 power they will gain power each day. (This is actually inaccurate. They changed it so it only affects notables with > 100 power, so there is no gain).

The exact equation for this decay is: [-1 x ((hero.Power - 100) / 500)] while notable power is > 100.

Some notable types also have a separate baseline daily power gain to counteract the daily decay, and some have additional losses. Merchants get +0.3 power per day. Both types of village notables get +0.1. Gang leaders actually lose an extra -0.6 power per day. Artisans also lose an extra -1 per day (presumably because they own the Artisan workshop).

There are also a variety of other ways that notables can gain or lose power. The most familiar will probably be the flat power gains/losses as a reward/consequence of completing or failing quests. On top of this, if a notable has certain unsolved issues/quests they will also lose 1 power each day the quest remains unsolved (this includes the time while companions are sent on the mission, so there are extra drawbacks to sending companions).

Npc lords can also "complete" quests under certain conditions by entering a settlement that has an outstanding issue. The npc must be the leader of the clan that owns the settlement. Each time they enter, they have a 10% chance of completing a random quest in towns and villages, and a 30% chance in villages (edit: hotfix changed the village chance). I don't believe they receive any rewards for this. Edit: Issues also expire after some time if the player doesn't accept them. The time to expire varies depending on the issue.

Notables will gain 1 power each day if they are a supporter of the clan who owns the settlement (check their tooltip). This effect is huge, and is enough to overcome the daily decay until power climbs very high. This effect is what is responsible for certain notables having more than 500 power. Village notables that don't get this boost are usually the ones who quickly disappear.

If a notable has gold in excess of 10150 at the end of the day, the amount of gold over 10k will be converted into power according to the equation [(hero.Gold - 10000) / 150] and their gold will be set back to 10k. If a notable has less than 4850 gold at the end of the day, gold is set back to 5k, and power is removed according to the equation [(5000 - hero.Gold) / 150]. Workshops and caravans are notables' main sources of income.

Merchant notables can only own 1 caravan at a time, which will bring in money for them (which then gets converted into power). If their caravan is destroyed, they will lose a flat 30 power upon creating a new one. They also always pay the wages for the caravan out of pocket.

Workshops can be owned by any of the urban notables (except Artisans), and will gain them power through converted gold. If a workshop's capital ever runs out, a notable will declare bankruptcy, and the workshop is sold to another notable and its type is randomly changed. This is rare, but does happen.

Gang leaders own properties called "common areas" (e.g. waterfront, clearing). They earn 0.1 power per day for each owned common area. Gang leaders can lose control of common areas in behind-the-scenes "alley fights." Owing a common area also earns a gang leader 30 gold per day per area. I'd have to double check, but I think they pay wages for thugs occupying the common area (edit: nope). These common areas also have "productions" of their own (such as extortion), but I'd have to look into it more to see if it produces any other income (edit: They don't generate income as of right now. The production is cleared each week without having any effect). There is a lot of interesting stuff associated with criminal enterprises in the code though.

Notables in a village will each lose 5 power when their village gets fully raided.

As noted by others above, notables have a chance of disappearing each day if they are below 100 power and do not own any workshops, caravans, or common areas. This chance increases the lower their power falls. The % chance is determined by the equation [((100 - hero.Power) / 100) * 2].

The whole point of the system is that individual notables will equalize at certain power levels depending on their specific circumstances. My guess as to why notables can disappear is to get rid of "failed" notables that don't have the right conditions to survive, and to give the player some ability to manipulate a settlement's notables. It definitely still needs additional balancing.

So with all that in mind, what are some other conditions that you guys can think of that should cause notables to gain or lose power without being too redundant? For instance, currently the gold that is used to recruit troops just vanishes, but maybe it should go to the notable instead to boost the power of notables that are recruited from frequently (might be too powerful).
 
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