SP - General Lords should only recruit from their own faction

[Pentagathoos]

Only had a quick search so perhaps this has been suggested a million times already. It seems very weird to me that lords of one faction will recruit troops from towns and villages of another neutral faction. I don't mean different cultures, I mean actually owned by other factions, for example a Sturgian lord recruiting from Battanian owned towns in the middle of Battania. It doesn't make any sense, I don't see why one side would allow this unless there's some kind of alliance and since there are no alliances. It also seems to happen most often immediately after two sides have made peace, as that seems to be why the lords are in another faction's territory in the first place. That makes even less sense.
I don't think this should effect the player as the player can make the choice as to whether they want to roleplay how they recruit troops.

 

[LDominating]

No.

 

[ClickForFreeBeer]

+1

I hate this too. It's confusing to meet the odd same culture troop as your own, especially in battles between the Imperial factions (doesn't help I'm slightly colourblind lol). It also spoils the whole point of the factions, especially the small parties of the minor factions, who will be completely full of random recruits from some other culture half the time. It also makes no sense for a lord of a different culture and faction to go to the effort (and cost) of supplying these trans-culture recruits with another faction's equipment, just because that's their native culture (unless Calradia's nobility is very sensitive about ignoring the heritage of every meatshield recruit).

Some might argue that historically it was quite common for soldiers of a different culture to fight alongside another army of this period, but these were generally entire units (from my understanding), who could defect or route fairly easily, rather than the odd handful of guys who just decided to join up with a lord of a faction they're meant to hate, only to probably raid their own village a few days later. More mercenary factions would be welcome to support this...

The modded framework provided by Adonnay on Nexus shows it's possible to dynamically restrict recruits to a particular faction. Minor factions perhaps could also recruit from their native culture, somewhat lessening the terrible dilution they get and make them more valuable and noticeable as mercenaries on the battlefield.

It would also do wonders to reduce the hard to read list of various troops, when mousing over a scouted party's info, as there will be fewer low-count troops bloating the list. I just want to see how much heavy inf they've got, etc.

 

[Julio-Claudian]

It also makes no sense for a lord of a different culture and faction to go to the effort (and cost) of supplying these trans-culture recruits with another faction's equipment

Yeah, I really dislike how a Battanian or Aserai lord can recruit imperials and train them into full legionary soldiers with imperial equipment.

 

[Emperor1997]

Only had a quick search so perhaps this has been suggested a million times already. It seems very weird to me that lords of one faction will recruit troops from towns and villages of another neutral faction. I don't mean different cultures, I mean actually owned by other factions, for example a Sturgian lord recruiting from Battanian owned towns in the middle of Battania. It doesn't make any sense, I don't see why one side would allow this unless there's some kind of alliance and since there are no alliances. It also seems to happen most often immediately after two sides have made peace, as that seems to be why the lords are in another faction's territory in the first place. That makes even less sense.
I don't think this should effect the player as the player can make the choice as to whether they want to roleplay how they recruit troops.

+1

 

[Danny5]

They do? I never realised it, thought they just recruited from prisoners

 

[Blood Gryphon]

They do? I never realised it, thought they just recruited from prisoners

They do.

Back before this change, when players made their kingdoms starting out they basically had no where but their starting fiefs to recruit so it was basically impossible to raise troops at any capacity. Your Ai parties would just cycle through the few villages you had and you literally had no one to recruit. So basically the second you got in a war you be easily outnumbered with no way to replenish your troops. It use to be impossible to start a kingdom without massive preparation.

It also helped solve the snowballing problem. If kingdoms can’t recruit from neutral factions then once they start to lose land their ability to gather troops becomes significantly harder and they would get rolled over in a single war.

It’s a necessary feature for gameplay to be enjoyable. I’m sure there’s a mod that forces them to be homogenous

 

[Julio-Claudian]

It use to be impossible to start a kingdom without massive preparation.

Is that a bad thing though? Shouldn't be easy to form a kingdom.

It also helped solve the snowballing problem. If kingdoms can’t recruit from neutral factions then once they start to lose land their ability to gather troops becomes significantly harder and they would get rolled over in a single war.

That doesn't sound so bad to me either, consequences. But it could at least be restricted to their own culture.


I just wish there were variants of each troop type for every culture like auxiliaries. Or just have troops convert to the culture of the party that upgrades them, so if a Battanian recruited an Imperial recruit they'd upgrade to a t2 Battanian unit.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

Is that a bad thing though? Shouldn't be easy to form a kingdom.

I agree it shouldn’t be easy, but I don’t think it’s easy right now and still takes good preparation if you aren’t cheesing it.

That doesn't sound so bad to me either, consequences. But it could at least be restricted to their own culture.

It was a massive issue, also remember that most people taking your cultures land are the people you most often go to war with, no one can recruit from enemies villages.

I just wish there were variants of each troop type for every culture like auxiliaries. Or just have troops convert to the culture of the party that upgrades them, so if a Battanian recruited an Imperial recruit they'd upgrade to a t2 Battanian unit.

That would be a good way to deal with this if you wanted to address it. But honestly some people wouldn’t like being forced to only have troops of their own culture. They’re many people who like to min/max and have the best troops from each culture. You could limit it to just Ai but TW wants the player and AI to play by the same rules.

 

[Tryvenyal]

I just wish there were variants of each troop type for every culture like auxiliaries. Or just have troops convert to the culture of the party that upgrades them, so if a Battanian recruited an Imperial recruit they'd upgrade to a t2 Battanian unit.

That would be a good way to deal with this if you wanted to address it. But honestly some people wouldn’t like being forced to only have troops of their own culture. They’re many people who like to min/max and have the best troops from each culture. You could limit it to just Ai but TW wants the player and AI to play by the same rules.

I´ve made a suggestion to make more upgrade-paths from Recruits. This can also be used to restrict access to certain paths. My suggestion was focused around upgrading Recruits through militia, trader, bandit and minor faction trees, and restrict access to regular units unless you were part of a faction of that culture. Actually, by default my suggestion was you could only allways upgrade recruits into Generic Merc- tree. Every other path had requirements.

That would maybe be a way to achieve someting along the lines that you request, without adding loads of auxilia trees - which is an interesting idea but lots of work

The tread you can see here.

 

[Julio-Claudian]

I´ve made a suggestion to make more upgrade-paths from Recruits. This can also be used to restrict access to certain paths. My suggestion was focused around upgrading Recruits through militia, trader, bandit and minor faction trees, and restrict access to regular units unless you were part of a faction of that culture. Actually, by default my suggestion was you could only allways upgrade recruits into Generic Merc- tree. Every other path had requirements.

That would maybe be a way to achieve someting along the lines that you request, without adding loads of auxilia trees - which is an interesting idea but lots of work

The tread you can see here.

I like this idea. This would have to be a mod though.

 

[Tryvenyal]

This would have to be a mod though.

Parts of it, yes probably. The restricting parts is what undoes both this suggestion and mine.

 

[tunax09]

I don't think so. What changes for a village when they are owned by one faction or another? They raise people to fight and get paid by whoever takes them, they won't care much about who besides culture. I think it's good the way it is now, you (and lords) get way less recruits from enemies, often none at all. I would even say lords sometimes should be able to force notables to give recruits like the player to add some spice to the game.

 

[xGreedo]

@tunax09 Lets make a real world example: Germany drafting France soldiers to fight France just because Germany is the first one to give them money (Doesn't really makes sense does it?)
What you are describing are Mercenaries that fight for whoever pays money. This is different, you meet mercenaries in the taverns.
Villages belong to a certain faction/culture, i can see how things can be a bit complicated in the empire civil war. BUT a faction with different culture should not be able to recruit soldiers from villages that does not belong to them.

 

[niekdegrijze]

Is that a bad thing though? Shouldn't be easy to form a kingdom.

That doesn't sound so bad to me either, consequences. But it could at least be restricted to their own culture.


I just wish there were variants of each troop type for every culture like auxiliaries. Or just have troops convert to the culture of the party that upgrades them, so if a Battanian recruited an Imperial recruit they'd upgrade to a t2 Battanian unit.

This seems to be the best solution, it keeps the gameplay functions for starting kingsoms and snowball prevention in place, and used the own culture equipment to upgrade the units into a homogenous army. This would be my preferred solution, I like a distinct look to different factions especially because I don’t play with the floating banners.
To keep every player happy there could be an extra upgrade path to upgrade into the unit culture

 

[Emperor1997]

They do.

Back before this change, when players made their kingdoms starting out they basically had no where but their starting fiefs to recruit so it was basically impossible to raise troops at any capacity. Your Ai parties would just cycle through the few villages you had and you literally had no one to recruit. So basically the second you got in a war you be easily outnumbered with no way to replenish your troops. It use to be impossible to start a kingdom without massive preparation.

It also helped solve the snowballing problem. If kingdoms can’t recruit from neutral factions then once they start to lose land their ability to gather troops becomes significantly harder and they would get rolled over in a single war.

It’s a necessary feature for gameplay to be enjoyable. I’m sure there’s a mod that forces them to be homogenous

It's not a necessary feature to prevent factions from snowballing.
They simply can add a War Support system like Humankind has it.

If they would add War Support, Factions can only declare a war when they have the War Support for doing it and when a faction has 0 War Support, they are force to surrender.

The Main Quest use this System already.

 

[Ongay1]

Maybe Lord troops recruitment should be based on traits? Cunning lords could recruit troops of any culture while honorable ones will only recruit those of the same culture? This will add flavor to the lords personalities.

 

[Gregor67]

Hello! (sorry 4me bad english)

I have only now discovered the thread. I recently created a similar one myself:

Moral weakness of cultures..

(I used google translator. Its not a very good translation. sorry It's best to look at point 3 right away Hi. / Merhaba I just shoot : Mount and blade 2- is one of my favorite games, but .. 1. Why can I, in a city (and village) with a different culture, recruit an infinite number of soldiers...

forums.taleworlds.com

It seems very weird to me that lords of one faction will recruit troops from towns and villages of another neutral faction. I don't mean different cultures, I mean actually owned by other factions, for example a Sturgian lord recruiting from Battanian owned towns in the middle of Battania. It doesn't make any sense, I don't see why one side would allow this

No.

+1

Yeah, I really dislike

I’m sure there’s a mod

maybe

a faction with different culture should not be able to recruit soldiers from villages that does not belong to them

This seems to be the best solution

necessary feature

lords

could recruit troops of any culture

How often have I just sparked the war again by cheat- "in the scenario" - to prevent this, that the (ex)enemies who are still there - reinforce themselves with "me troopes" again.. ^^

Just a few days ago -by nexus- I accidentally found a mod("PersonalTailor") - which doesn't really fix all the "morale" issues - but it does have an interesting one subfunction:
"AI can't recruit soldiers in the territory of other countries, except mercenaries."
(This is probably only possible when you conquer a city with a foreign culture.)
The only disadvantage of the mod - in my opinion - is the increased money supply(other subfunction)..
but -
that and maybe the mod("Changing Culture") might help you a little so you don't have to be "angry/confused" all the time.
The units of the foreign nobles are following the same paths in the "sudden end of the war in the middle of foreign culture" but nobody wants to be bought by them. ^^ (and they don't stay there forever)

greetings

 

[Halvdan]

They do.

Back before this change, when players made their kingdoms starting out they basically had no where but their starting fiefs to recruit so it was basically impossible to raise troops at any capacity. Your Ai parties would just cycle through the few villages you had and you literally had no one to recruit. So basically the second you got in a war you be easily outnumbered with no way to replenish your troops. It use to be impossible to start a kingdom without massive preparation.

It also helped solve the snowballing problem. If kingdoms can’t recruit from neutral factions then once they start to lose land their ability to gather troops becomes significantly harder and they would get rolled over in a single war.

It’s a necessary feature for gameplay to be enjoyable. I’m sure there’s a mod that forces them to be homogenous

It doesn't keep the game enjoyable when you defeat an army and they show back up with a different nation's troops under their banner 10 minutes later. It destroys the sense of achievement of winning any large battle and breaking down a nation's armies when they can instantly respond with new ones. It doesn't make sense for imperial factions to have armies made out of troops that they look down upon per the main storyline of the game

 

[Blood Gryphon]

It doesn't keep the game enjoyable when you defeat an army and they show back up with a different nation's troops under their banner 10 minutes later. It destroys the sense of achievement of winning any large battle and breaking down a nation's armies when they can instantly respond with new ones.

Its something you are going to have to get used to with the new clans system. Each clan has multiple family members who can all lead a party when one of their members loses their parties, for each faction your going to have about 27 parties you have to actively fight and ~20 reinforcements that can start new parties when an active party goes down (and thats before each factions ~20 kids at the start of the game grow up, plus any newborns throughout the playthrough). Just have an understanding that the average army has maybe 5-10 parties in it, so you have to defeat 3-6 armies to get through the active parties, meanwhile reinforcements will start new parties when their family members get defeated and will take troops from their garrisons and start recruiting new troops often on their way to their next battle or army formation. So really your going to have to defeat 5-10+ armies to even start making a dent into their garrisons plus whatever they can recruit from villages. Bannerlord is slog of constant battles and a single large fight will make little difference.

It doesn't make sense for imperial factions to have armies made out of troops that they look down upon per the main storyline of the game

If you actually pay attention to the story the empire hires other factions to help with their battles, like how they hired the aserai and vlandia to help against the battanians and sturgia. The aserai got slaughtered and the Vlandias decided not to help once they saw the battle start to go south. But the empire has always outsourced its fighters, so not sure what your point is there. Regardless of lore they are going to do their best to maintain their party levels whereever they are located, so if they are traveling through batannia to fight vlandia they are going to pick up some batannian troops.