Lords' naming convention

[Blackfish]

This is something I've been thinking about since I started playing Warband. In Warband the lords belong to a family - for example Boyar Vlan is Boyar Vuldrat's father and Boyar Kumipa's brother. My question is: are names like Vlan, Vuldrat, Kumipa etc. first names?

In 1.011 M&B I always assumed that they were noble family names, since a number of them seem to have castles named after them, for example Jarl Knudarr has Knudarr Castle, Boyar Nelag has Nelag Castle, etc. Meaning Boyar Nelag's son should also be Boyar Nelag, and Count Despin's son should also be Count Despin, right? Also shouldn't members of the same family carry the same banner, or at least some variation on the same theme? I mean going back to the Vaegirs, Vlan's banner is this red rose on white field while Vuldrat (his son) has the French fleur de lys thing going on. I don't recall but I'm sure Kumipa the brother has a totally different banner as well. They're not in-laws from another family either since the younger lords do marry ladies on occasion.

What is the justification for this? I'm not an expert on medieval history, so I might be missing something here.

 

[Feragorn]

Banners are random. As to names, i have no idea, as not all lords have castles corresponding to their names. I assume the names are first names.

 

[Lord Brutus]

It could be my imagination, but I think I see some lords with different banners in different games, although some seem to remain constant. If you'd like, I could do some manuscript diving on the origins and meaning of lord's names. lol

 

[McBeverage]

Pretty sure relationships are randomized at game-start.

 

[Feragorn]

It could be my imagination, but I think I see some lords with different banners in different games, although some seem to remain constant. If you'd like, I could do some manuscript diving on the origins and meaning of lord's names. lol

Banners are completely random, as are relationships. So are some fiefs as well...

 

[Caba`drin]

Banners in fact are not random. They are given in the same order each time.

Spoiler: previous post I made on banners

There are technically 140 banners defined in the Native scene_props file, which are assigned in the scripts file in the script game_start.

Banners 1-62 go to the Swadians, Vaegirs, and Nords, in that order.
Banners 63-84 go to the Khergits
Banners 85-104 go to the Rhodoks
Banners 105-125 go to the Sarranids
Banners 126-135 are actually duplicates of the first 10 Sarranid banners
Banners 136-141 are those that go to Kings/Kingdoms

When the player picks a banner, if they select a banner the same as another lord, that lord's banner is always replaced by the same red-white checked Swadian banner (Swadian banner 15).

Companions are always granted banners in the same, descending, order as governed by code in the dialogs file. The code is off by 1, so instead of starting with banner 135, just before the King's banners, they start with Ragnar's banner. Then, since 126-135 in Native just point to Sarranid banners, you will see your Companions be given scimitars, flowers, deserting things of that nature. And always in the same, predictable order. This format does ensure that no companions have the same banner, but it does little else.

I've developed a bit of code to replace the Native dialog code which randomizes the banners received by Companions, while ensuring they don't duplicate one another or the player. It's posted in The Forge, here.

Some lord's personalities are pre-set, some are random.

Spoiler: previous post on personalities

I believe it has something to do with the randomized lord personalities at game start. Those factions may have had an overwhelming number of debauched, etc, lords so their relations with their lieges fell over time. If they have been getting beat up in battles this would accelerate the process. I've not tracked down solid evidence of this yet in the scripts, but it looks plausible.

As for fixes, I do not know of any.

I was under the impression that all factions had an equal number of honorable, debauched, etc lords from the start. If what you say is true (and I can't say it isn't), that would put a premium on speaking with every lord on the map prior to choosing a faction to join. It's funny though, because as my honor goes up, I seem to increase relations with equal numbers of lords from each faction.

The first seven lords of each faction are equally distributed honorable, debauched, etc. After that, the next 4 older lords are have their personalities randomly selected. After those are selected younger lords (sons of the first seven and the other 4 older lords...so 9 of the lords total) have a 50% chance of having their father's personality and a 50% chance of having a random personality. If the 4 randomly assigned older lords are mostly dishonorable, then there's a large chance that the crop of their kids will be too.

Randomizing lord personalities in this way helps each game flow differently, I'd say. Some games you've a bunch of honor-bound loyalists, and others backstabbers who hop all over Calradia before ending up with the player or a trip to the beyond.

And as has been stated, some fiefs are random, others are pre-set. Renown is randomized.

Looking at the game start script, the level of relationships are randomized at game start, true, but it doesn't appear that much (if any) randomization is occurring as to who is related to whom...perhaps I'm missing it in the scripts though, as I too recall what appears to be at least some "randomization" of banners/family in game, but I can't find the source of it code-wise.


@OP, An interesting concept though...it would take some significant rework of the game_start script to make more of these things (names, banners, etc) family relationship-dependent. Not that that wouldn't make for an interesting mod of some sort, though.

 

[Blackfish]

Ah, yes, that was in my (current) game only, I wasn't sure about whether they were randomised or not so I didn't say anything about that.

But that's besides the point/question I was making/asking - which is that some parts of the game seems to imply that the names are first names, other parts family names.

 

[HannibalTheCannibal]

I thought that in Calradian culture people just had one name, and occasionally a nickname after it. So first/last name debates are kinda pointless if it's the only name they have. I figure if they're talking among themselves the lords say things like "I'm Vuldrat, son of Vlan" when introducing themselves.

 

[Potent_Schraphlon]

In Vanilla M&B I liked how Lord Plais (plaice) had a fish on his banner. I was sad to see they changed that in Warband.