Looters are fine, yay or nay?

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Do they need a nerf? If so what?

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rippex

Recruit
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I'm kinda active on the steamforums, and there have been multiple complaints there about them, their rocks, their haircuts and jeebus knows what.

So, what do people here think? If you think they are completely fine, you do not need to post just vote: Leave room for people who actually have complaints.

There will be three possible choices, voting yes & no would be silly, please don't. Leaving this up for one week.
 

black_bulldog

Squire
WBWF&SVC
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They're the easiest mob in the game and you want them to be nerfed? If you feel it's too hard at first then drop the difficulty down, or go fight in tournaments/practice fights till you get sufficient cash to buy a shield and better armor. As a bonus you get to level up some combat/athletics or riding skills. The real problem isn't the looters or even the rocks it's that armor doesn't protect the way it should. This mod will help if you feel like armor isn't working. Imho looters need to be buffed or at least later on we need a bit more variety with them because they drop terrible gear and once you have 15-20 guys T3 or above they get crushed in under 2 minutes.
 

someot

Recruit
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I recently started a new playthrough on realistic and looters seem fine. I got wrecked my first couple encounters because I tried to 1v5 with my starting gear, but after about an hour or two they were just fodder that were easily destroyed, even significantly larger parties. I would want to double check the rock damage against armor since I think they should be basically ineffective against anything mid-tier or better, but I don't think that even matters much.
 

rippex

Recruit
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They're the easiest mob in the game and you want them to be nerfed? If you feel it's too hard at first then drop the difficulty down, or go fight in tournaments/practice fights till you get sufficient cash to buy a shield and better armor. As a bonus you get to level up some combat/athletics or riding skills. The real problem isn't the looters or even the rocks it's that armor doesn't protect the way it should. This mod will help if you feel like armor isn't working. Imho looters need to be buffed or at least later on we need a bit more variety with them because they drop terrible gear and once you have 15-20 guys T3 or above they get crushed in under 2 minutes.
Did I mention I wanted them nerfed? Because I really do not, however I also know that MY opinion/experience isn't universal. I figured it could be an idea to let people who feel like they have an issue with them, would have a good place to express their issues without getting flamed or ridiculed.

Which is why I asked people who are fine with them to not post.
 
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black_bulldog

Squire
WBWF&SVC
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0
Did I mention I wanted them nerfed? Because I really do not, however I also know that MY opinion/experience isn't universal. I figured it could be an idea to let people who feel like they have an issue with them, would have a good place to express their issues without getting flamed or ridiculed.

Which is why I asked people who are fine with them to not post.
Who cares what other people think. If you're good with them then what is the need for the subject at all? I see very little cries about how hard looters are on these forums. You could've done a search to see if there were a lot of complaints about it, if you're really that interested.
Sorry not sorry, but as long as people don't use abusive language with you don't get to decide who and how they respond. If you don't want to hear from all sides then you shouldn't have made a topic. These forums are here for everyone to discuss Taleworlds games.
 

Sparticulous

Veteran
M&BWB
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They need to be buffed with random tier 2-4 equipment from the areas they are in. They are looting, so should have looted gear!
 

Lord Bryggan

Knight
WB
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There are just way too many. My poor villagers are constantly getting chased by groups of 8 or 10, and I can't go chasing them all the time.

I wish they'd put a limit on how many 'brigand' parties can be in one area.
 
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Who cares what other people think. If you're good with them then what is the need for the subject at all? I see very little cries about how hard looters are on these forums. You could've done a search to see if there were a lot of complaints about it, if you're really that interested.
Sorry not sorry, but as long as people don't use abusive language with you don't get to decide who and how they respond. If you don't want to hear from all sides then you shouldn't have made a topic. These forums are here for everyone to discuss Taleworlds games.
Did you actually search the forum?




There's actually quite a bit of conversation about looters, and it's been that way since release.

IMO it's not necessarily about them being too strong or too weak. I just plainly dislike the concept of having trash troops walking around throughout the game. And if they are OP for what they are supposed to be it's probably because there really isn't as much of a difference as there should be between "peasants" and "elite" troops in this game.
 

black_bulldog

Squire
WBWF&SVC
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0
Did you actually search the forum?




There's actually quite a bit of conversation about looters, and it's been that way since release.

IMO it's not necessarily about them being too strong or too weak. I just plainly dislike the concept of having trash troops walking around throughout the game. And if they are OP for what they are supposed to be it's probably because there really isn't as much of a difference as there should be between "peasants" and "elite" troops in this game.
Did you even read what you highlighted?
One of those topics was about looters being too strong and almost every reply said no it's not a problem with looters it's a problem with armor, just like I mentioned.
One of those topics was about recruits dying too easily, not about looters.
One of those topics was about looters all looking the same.
If you're going to quote other posts at least try to read what they're about first...
 

dutch81

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNW
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The only thing I’d like to see them change is to make them faction specific so that you can covert them to troops of their region not all generic to empire.
 

Hans 77

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SVC
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And if they are OP for what they are supposed to be it's probably because there really isn't as much of a difference as there should be between "peasants" and "elite" troops in this game.
^^
This is 100% the issue.

In Warband, the difference between bottom tier troops (recruits, tribesmen, looters) and elite units (Tier 5's: Knights, Huscarls, Sharpshooters, etc.) was palpable. The disparity between them was extremely distinguished and noticeable. Even the gap between Tier 2 and Tier 4 units was quite profound.

This was good because it really gave the game a feeling of variety and highlighted the major differences between the level of "professionalism" of various troops. Also, it was good for the player, because it gave them incentive to try and upgrade their army as much as possible and provided the feeling of satisfaction upon seeing their force grow and develop and succeed.

In Bannerlord, I feel like there is just too much parity between the trash-tier units and good solid troops. When it's all said and done, there's not much of a difference between them.

The factors behind the combat-efficiency-gap in Warband were easily understood:
-Metrics like Weapon Proficiency, Power Strike, and Power Draw played a huge part in determining how effective a unit was going to be in combat. Units with low Power Strike or Weapon Proficiency were going to get bullied -no matter what.
-Also, equipment -especially armor, was crucial and tied directly to how well a certain troop would perform on the battlefield.
-Lower tier units were also generally equipped with less potent weapons, be it melee weapons or bows.

Armor worked well for the most part in Warband -it wasn't perfect by any means, but high-quality gear could protect the units (or the player) wearing it fairly well. That being said, armor in Bannerlord is just janked. It doesn't protect nearly as much as it should and this is very disappointing. Now no one expects to be an invincible juggernaut in this game -no matter what armor they're wearing, but I think the whole "looters throwing rocks" complaint defines the issue perfectly, and this is why looters (perhaps unjustifiably) get so much controversy and hate.

I'll admit, it's frustrating when these starving, flea-ridden, scruffy men in rags take down a unit (or player) wearing middle-upper tier armor using just their rocks or crude weaponry they scrounged up while picking through the fields. But we must stop and ask ourselves, is it the looters' fault? Or the Bannerlord equipment/armor system?
 

Olympeus

Regular
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0
I'm kinda active on the steamforums, and there have been multiple complaints there about them, their rocks, their haircuts and jeebus knows what.

So, what do people here think? If you think they are completely fine, you do not need to post just vote: Leave room for people who actually have complaints.

There will be three possible choices, voting yes & no would be silly, please don't. Leaving this up for one week.
“Fine” in what sense? Maybe be more specific, but I assume from the multiple choice list you mean their combat difficulty?

Yes they are fine. They are easy, which I think is what the Devs intended.
 

rippex

Recruit
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“Fine” in what sense? Maybe be more specific, but I assume from the multiple choice list you mean their combat difficulty?

Yes they are fine. They are easy, which I think is what the Devs intended.
Fine as in not in need of any nerf/change. Working as intended, etc.
 

AnandaShanti

Knight at Arms
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0
They're the easiest mob in the game
They're really not though. I take more damage from fighting a pack looters then steppe bandits, desert bandits, mountain men and sea chads! Only forest bandits are more dangerous to fight solo. Looters are great for leveling troops, but really annoying for solo.

Too many rocks. Other bandits, although they can 1 shot you are easy to deal with because the have a small amount of thrown ammo. I know looters are supposed to have like 18, but it feels like infinite and there's always one guy that sneaks in a hit with one. Now in some versions it's okay, but in the 1.5.1 the healing is so ****ed that you're carrying that rock wound for days. Have to fight a few looter packs? Guess who's going 1/2 hp to the big tournament (probably still win in current versions...).....

Too many looter parties. They're everywhere no matter what forever. They need to turn into bandits or something it's just stupid. They need to spawn in a way that the player knows where to find them (go through war torn areas, near sieged fiefs) or spawn from quests or some player action, for the purpose of leveling recruits. They should not be like ants all over the map forever. Warband was much more reasonable about spawning stuff, Bannerlord just dumps looters and bandits forever. It goes from a lot, to even more, but never, "not that many".

Two shots for every dude🎵 It's just as much effort to kill a looter as almost anyone else in the world. Yes maybe 3 shots are required for some high tier units and lords, but it's really annoying to me that just as much time and effort is spend for such petty reward. I understand the rationale behind "People don't really have different bodies, why have way more hp" but it's still annoying and I long for the warband looters with 45 hp, not to mention rock that ding for zero once you have a coat of plates.

Armor sucks. Ackshully a bunch of damage formulas and complex stuff sucks I'm sure. But the experience is "oh I have good armor I'll skill up on some looters" and you still take way too much damage from rocks and if they hit you. It's not looters fault really, but it sucks.

Anyways, it's not important, but it is annoying and they could make good changes.
 

paladinx333

Sergeant at Arms
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0
Rocks thrown by looters do too much damage. Even if you stay far away and have decent armor the rocks are just too effective at chipping away at your health. The lack of healing in 1.5 just makes it worse.
 

Olympeus

Regular
Best answers
0
Now in some versions it's okay, but in the 1.5.1 the healing is so ****ed that you're carrying that rock wound for days.
This x 1,000.

Isn’t it remarkable how a shift in one system (heal rate) can suddenly unbalance things like looter difficulty?

Until the heal rate gets sorted, I’m relegated to letting my Fian Champions kill everything while I cheer from the sidelines. Getting hit with 9 rocks that do 1 damage each and still take 1.5 weeks to heal is not worth it. Especially when you have 135 looter packs to clear out on the West Coast of what was Vlandia.

I made this mistake of getting hit in my big toe with a Sea Raider Javelin while clearing a hideout. I died instantly and it was an in-game year before I was a full health again.

Meanwhile the Sea Raiders formed their own kingdom and own half the map.
 
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Did you even read what you highlighted?
One of those topics was about looters being too strong and almost every reply said no it's not a problem with looters it's a problem with armor, just like I mentioned.
One of those topics was about recruits dying too easily, not about looters.
One of those topics was about looters all looking the same.
If you're going to quote other posts at least try to read what they're about first...
I did. My point is that people are talking about looters, and those are just the first few results that a search brings up. Clearly what OP brought up is relevant. There are waaaay less relevant threads on this forum for you to bash upon before you criticize this one.

I'll admit, it's frustrating when these starving, flea-ridden, scruffy men in rags take down a unit (or player) wearing middle-upper tier armor using just their rocks or crude weaponry they scrounged up while picking through the fields. But we must stop and ask ourselves, is it the looters' fault? Or the Bannerlord equipment/armor system?
Precisely, one elite tier unit should be able to mop a party of twenty looters without breaking a sweat.. Perhaps Warband had that taken to the extreme where you could kill 100 peasants on your own once you had good gear, but I would rather go with that than with what we have now myself.
 

Fryskar

Recruit
Best answers
0
There are just way too many. My poor villagers are constantly getting chased by groups of 8 or 10, and I can't go chasing them all the time.

I wish they'd put a limit on how many 'brigand' parties can be in one area.
For that i'd like an other fix.
Its called patrols.
You and your companions only can cover so much and its feels lile a waste of time to chase 20 looters around while you could command 300.