Loot from battles need some kind of rework

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What if post-battle loot wasnt immediately usable items, or even "damaged [item]" but stacks of junk/broken components that cant be used at all?

Say there is a 95% chance of an item getting turned in to (Useless/Average/Uncommon/Valuable [T0-3 or T1-4]) "Broken Armor/Weapons" with a 5% chance of getting immediately usable gear. (example stats).
  • A scouting or roguery stat ("loot the dead") could increase this base chance from 5->10% or increase the general chance of getting higher quality items when that 5% does trigger.
With Broken Armor/Weapons you effectively make loot what it is - low-priced vendor junk
  • (and this means your inventory isn't constantly clogged with trash items - rather you have just 1-8 types of broken items, separated by tier and "armor"/"weapon", automatically stacked up in the junk tab, which means fewer things for the game to track, probably improving UI performance and save bloat, and less clicking/time wasted).
BUT you also have the option to take that to a forge and deconstruct it down in to base wood/metal/cloth/whatever - and a high level smithing perk could be used to reforge or "roll" stacks of junk e.g. uncommon broken armor might have a chance of turning into Tier 3 lamellar mail or whatever else is in that gear-tier class.
  • It could even be a new business input - selling broken components to cities with a smithy reforges or deconstructs the components automatically over time (but you'll then need to pay the full item price for any items they reforge or any materials they deconstruct - so smithing-focussed characters still get the most out of this, but other playstyles can still engage with it to a degree, too).
At least this way, you can still make a living from loot scavenging (more so if you engage with reforging it) and you have a chance to occasionally find some good gear on the field - without making it the free bank account top-up it currently is.
 
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Lord Irontoe

Master Knight
What if post battle loot wasnt immediately usable items, but stacks of broken components?

Say there is a 95% chance of an item getting turned in to (Useless/Average/Uncommon/Valuable [T0-3 or T1-4]) "Broken Armor/Weapons" with a 5% chance of getting immediately usable gear. (example stats).

With Broken Armor/Weapons you effectively make loot what it is - low-priced vendor junk.

BUT you also have the option to take that to a forge and deconstruct it down in to base wood/metal/cloth/whatever - and a high level smithing perk could be used to reforge or "roll" stacks of junk e.g. uncommon broken armor might have a chance of turning into Tier 4 lamellar mail or whatever.
  • It could even be a new business input - selling broken components to cities with a smithy does this automatically over time (but you'll then need to pay the full item price for any items they reforge or any materials they deconstruct - so smithing-focussed characters still get the most out of this, but other playstyles can still engage with it to a degree, too).
At least this way, you can still make a living from loot scavenging (more so if you engage with reforging it) and you have a chance to occasionally find some good gear - without making it the free bank account top-up it currently is.
This wouldn't be bad if there was a chance to get something special. The Last Days of the Third Age mod had this kind of loot system, but without the rare special drops, so all you ever got from loot was metal scrap which you could sell, or maybe some horses. The good thing about it was you didn't wind up equipping yourself and companions to look like your enemies, but the drawback was that you never got that rush from finding something really sweet. Looting was just "collect the money and go".
 

Calabanar

Regular
Wasn’t there a mod for Warband that allowed the player to decide how much loot they shared with their troops?

That would be cool: sharing more loot would mean better morale and less wages.

Kind of agree the player should be getting good stuff as loot though, vendor crap isn’t fun. It makes sense to not get much when you have an army as they take their share, but about at the start? Although it doesn’t really matter since no one keeps playing as a lone dude we all end up recruiting troops or companions rather fast... so yeah! More potentially useful loot ftw!
 

Bratok

Recruit
What's really off is the chance of acquiring GOOD loot.

It seems that every unit has a loot table with drop chances and this table is either very limited or the chances are microscopic - like 0.000001% or something.
I fought countless bandits, and while looters seem to drop everything they have (except stones, where are the stones??), high tier troops (forest bandits, mountain bandits, sea raiders) drop the MOST cheap and useless items ONLY. Even in bandit lair raids. I can capture 20 bandits (including high tier ones, bosses with really good equipment) alive and get NONE of their items. Calradians are so noble they won't even confiscate captives' weapons and armour... I ransom them fully equipped and get a couple of coins for a bandit boss, whose outfit costs literally THOUSANDS!!!

I can defeat 50 fully armoured sea raiders and get ZERO helmets and not even a ****tiest piece of mail! But hey, no worries, bro! You can have their scarfs, fur hats and some broken weapons!!!
I have managed to find only ONE helmet and ONE round shield in my 20 hours playthrough (mostly fighting bandits).

In WB we got coins from every fight, at least some small amount. It was a steady income for early-mid game.
In Bannerlord money loot is very rare. Even bandit lairs usually lack money loot.
This system sucks, it breaks progression. With inflated prices (hyperinflated with irreplaceable RBM mod) on weapons and armour, combat loot is THE ONLY way to equip your PC and your companions in early-mid game, and get some profit for paying wages. And don't let me start on those useless tournament bets and "prizes".

Do you remember how this worked in WB? At any difficulty level we:
1. Solo some looters, get fur armour and cool beanie hats.
2. Train some peasants while fighting looters and gang on some mountain/fores bandits. Dress in gambesons or leather armour.
3. Try to fight sea raiders
4. Get raped by sea raiders.
5. Try again.
6. Get some good byrnies and hauberks, Norse shields, helmets and weapons.
7. Buy lots of butter with all those looted coins.
8. BEAT THE **** OF SOME WEAK LORDS and so on.

In WB we had a separate skill for looting, which really DID something. 10 points in looting gave us 140% more loot. In Bannerlord we have Roguery. which is painfully slow to level up, and contradicts some role-play factors (not everyone wants to be a scoundrel, deal with bandits and gangs) and it increases loot chances by how much? 10-15%? It's not even in the perk description.

In Bannerlord I command an army of top tier heavy armour-clad infantry and horsemen, while wearing a patched gambeson and a pair of worn boots from dead looters. With no helmet, cause all Calradian helmets have a built-in self-destruct mechanism in case if its owner dies.
 

Bratok

Recruit
I made a short video about how you can fix the loot for yourself in just 2 minutes:
Well thank you! What do these values mean exactly? Drop chances? I hope this won't introduce new bugs, cause this engine is like a house of cards - you pull just one, and everything collapses...
 

TimIZ

Regular
M&BWB
Well thank you! What do these values mean exactly? Drop chances? I hope this won't introduce new bugs, cause this engine is like a house of cards - you pull just one, and everything collapses...
I think they intended to introduce drop chances (have a look at modules > native > module data > item_modifiers_groups.xml) but that obviously doesn`t have any effect in game. It`s all about the price only. And that`s determined by the default item value model + loot per enemy (50 denars in vanilla) + the extra effects of the different item modifiers (THIS is the big problem here because > masterwork two-handed sword > 1.8 million denars > lol).

I don`t know how or if we can change the file with the item modifiers (hardcoded??) so the only way I know is to increase what we get per enemy and decrease the vanilla prices.

Edit: To answer your question a bit more detailed: GetExpectedLootedItemValue - change the 0.5 to 1.0, 50 is how many denars worth of loot you get per enemy and increasing this number increases the chance to get high tier items; GetEquipmentValueFromTier - change the 3 to 2 and the most expensive items will be around 10.000 denars, change it to 1.5 and they will be around 2.500 - this increases the quality of the item modifiers.

And no worries about bugs here.. :wink:
 
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Coins are convertible into fancy items though. I think it's more logical to get top-quality stuff from merchants and craftsmen in a city rather than picking it up from the dirt on a battlefield.

And selling trash isn't really tedious either, you just click one button to sell all of it.

So IMO the system is fine except it's just too much value from the loot atm.
Maybe it's just me but in an rpg with loot drops I expect to get a rare drop occasionally and considering all the previous M&B games did this I don't think such an expectation is unfounded.
 

Bratok

Recruit
I made a short video about how you can fix the loot for yourself in just 2 minutes:
I have been experimenting with these values recently and made a couple of discoveries, well at least for myself. The GetEquipmentValueFromTier variable seems to influence the prices directly, at least for me it changed every price, except armour prices for some reason.
The value of 1.75 (as proposed in earlier posts) seems to decrease prices for player-forged weapons by 10 times! This may actually solve the smithing exploit problem. Also, changing this coefficient gives much better tournament prizes (as if tournament prizes are also value-limited ugh...). However, horses, food and raw materials become dirt cheap with that value. It ruins immersion. Armour prices for some reason are much less sensitive (if at all) to this coefficient, I saw almost zero difference in armour prices after editing it. This also ruins immersion, when best armours are ~50k, while the best weapons are ~3-5k.

The GetExpectedLootItemValue is much more interesting, however each new value requires extensive testing to suit player's taste. I have personally found that 4/750 is rather excessive, since it yields the loot of luxurious quality, even when clearing simple bandit lairs. 3/750 or 3/500 seems to be just right while bringing less junk items and more useful (but not OP) loot.

In general these tweaks are useful if you are reluctant to exploit smithing or don't want to get into caravans/workshops in the early-mid game. Also better loot means more rewarding battle experience, as now you are finally going to get sweet hauberks and nordic helmets (instead of endless scarfs and leather boots) from those pesky Sea Raiders.
 

TimIZ

Regular
M&BWB
Good that you bring this up again!

I also experimented a bit more and found out that Native > Module Data > item_modfiers.xml is indeed moddable with Notepad++. This makes things much easier as we can also lower the price effect of the item modifiers and get rid of all the inconsistencies in this file (lots of things being more expensive while having worse stats).

At the moment I have these settings:
GetEquipmentValueFromTier: return (float)Math.Pow(2.0, (double)MathF.Clamp(itemTierf, 1f, 5f));
GetExpectedLootedItemValue: return 1f * (125f + (float)(character.Level * character.Level));

The most expensive armor in Varcheg is Heavy Lamellar over Hauberk at 4695 denars and the most expensive weapon Northern Decorated Two Handed Axe at 2425. Cheapest Clothing is at 169. Still possible to make good profit with steppe and desert horses and the other trade goods in my game are not affected by the changes.

It`s day 266 in my current campaign and so far I got one lordly T4 Helmet and an undamaged T5 helmet.
 

Krow

Regular
I believe we should get ALL dropped weapons and armor from a battle. But a very low chance to find a weapon/piece of armor in perfect condition. That's where the smithing comes in handy! Depending on your smithing level, you can fix those weapons or armors. Then, you either sell them or use them, but to use them, you should meet a requirement in Strength (if it's armor), or One Handed, Two Handed... etc. if it's a weapon. If it's too rewarding in the beginning, maybe enable this feature if Received Damage option is set to Realistic, so that a battle can be very rewarding.
 

Bratok

Recruit
I believe we should get ALL dropped weapons and armor from a battle. But a very low chance to find a weapon/piece of armor in perfect condition.
That'll be TOO much. Keep in mind that even peasants have at least 3 items (body clothing, boots, weapon) Higher tier troops will have 6-9 items (armour, weapons, ammo) + horses and horse armours. This means that a single soldier in any army may be equipped with 3 to 11 items.
Now imagine digging through all this junk (since most items will have negative modifiers i.e. low selling value) after defeating 200-300 enemies, what about 1000? That's ~7000 items on average!
This is both time consuming for the player and performance taxing for player's PC. Not to mention the fact that you'll still get thousands of gold when you sell all this junk. Economy? What economy?
That's where the smithing comes in handy! Depending on your smithing level, you can fix those weapons or armors.
A welcome addition, however, this will need a delicate balancing approach (which, alas, TW seems to lack), otherwise smithing will become even more "cheaty".

I personally am OK with the vanilla "one dead=one loot item" system. BUT the vanilla loot value limit is stupidly low. This means we can have only the cheapest junk items, and high tier enemies may not yield any loot at all. Than what's the point in grinding big armies? Its just not worth the risk.
 
Unless they are going to reduce the value of equipment fielded by troops then you can never get a representative set of loot. Currently there are soldiers who's if you got all of just one soldiers gear at market price you could buy a castle with it.
Personally I think they should massively reduce the value of all standard gear and then like in Warband add a slightly better Lordly class of gear for 10 x the price, which you could almost never get as loot to represent a end game cash sink/goal. As it stands you can get an army of people wearing armour for less than it would cost you to equip your character with the same suit.
+1 most gear should be "cheap" compared to current values, I loved going around trying to find lord level gear in wb made you feel boss.
 

Bratok

Recruit
+1 most gear should be "cheap" compared to current values, I loved going around trying to find lord level gear in wb made you feel boss.
Pricing and loot in WB were right and fair. We could equip the PC and all companions in looted items only in a reasonable time, and we could also buy some decent basic weapons and armour, without going bankrupt every time even in early game.
 

vonbalt

Knight
WBNWVCM&B
Pricing and loot in WB were right and fair. We could equip the PC and all companions in looted items only in a reasonable time, and we could also buy some decent basic weapons and armour, without going bankrupt every time even in early game.
If TW simply copied the pricing and loot formulas from WB and pasted it in BL i would die happy, so few mods even touched those aspects in warband because how good and balanced it was, i can remember maybe 1257AD that made armor very expensive to be more realistic (still cheaper than in BL) and Viking Conquest where you could share part of your loot with your troops for a morale bonus or keep more loot to yourself and your troops loosing morale.
 

TimIZ

Regular
M&BWB
I am a programming challenged person, does this formula have a random (or any other) modifier besides "1", "125" and character levels (6 to 26)?
There is another formula which seems to determine the price range of the looted items (0.75 to 1.25 times the "125" in GetExpectedLootedItemValue). I set this to 0.25 to 10 and it`s the first time I get totally diverse loot, from rotten cheap stuff to masterwork swords.

Taleworlds.CampaignSystem.dll > LootCollector:

Loot-Collector.jpg
 
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