Loot and Taxes - too much?

[allthesedamnnamesaretaken]

I have a real problem with the amount of taxes you can collect from your fief and the amount of denars you can get from looting defenseless villages. This really makes it too easy to get rich quick and afford all of the best equipment with no challenge at all.

Right now, taxes are 1500 denars a week, and looting nets you anywhere from around 700-1400 denars, not including the actual loot. I think that all taxes and loot should be reduced to 1/3 or so, so you're getting about 5-600 denars per week.

Taxes from a small village should really only allow you to pay the salaries of a modest group of men, say 20-25 knights, whose wages are about 20 denars a week, with some denars left over for yourself (say 100-200 denars)

Looting should result in much fewer denars, as peasants can easily pick up small valuables with them as they flee. I think maybe 100-200 denars should be the maximum gain from looting. Afterall, you do get to steal to a lot of commidities you can sell to merchants.

Garrisoning troops in a castle should also reduce the taxes you can get from it. Afterall, you should have to pay your soldiers to guard your castle, or at least pay to have them fed. Perhaps troops stationed in a castle should reduce the taxes you can collect by 1/2 of thier normal wage. We can imagine that soldiers living in comfort in a swanky castle do not require as much pay as if they're roughing it out on the field.

Another problem with this system is what to do when you station so many troops in a castle the taxes do not cover the expense. Should you be required to pay extra upkeep from your pocket, or should you not be allowed to station more troops than the taxes allow?

I'd love to hear what everyone thinks about the rich loot and taxes. Please discuss.

 

[Lectus]

Additionally, the King should definitely level a tax on the various lords, to act as another money sink.  This is how it's done in Battle for Sicily (the inspiration for the new game mechanic, I believe).

 

[Theo]

Yea in BoS you were expected to pay most of those taxes to king, it might be implemented in future.

Right now these income are too high when comparing to soldier wages. Either there should be less money available or unit wages should be increased.

 

[bravesirknight]

I think it's ok right now. Fief upgrades are expensive, and the best equipment can set you back here and there. I guess taxes should be a bit more evenly given though... sometimes I walk in and it's 9k  and other times it's just a little bit...

 

[JoshRose]

Rather than saying they are too high, I would prefer that more uses for the money get implemented to the game. Either in the way of weapons/items/etc, or things like spending money on village/castle upgrades, etc.

 

[Sabin Stargem]

Personally, I feel that the problem with looting villages is that it happens FAR too often for too much profit.  Rather, the amount of profit from looting a village should depend on how well developed the village is, how much income and goods is produced from trade and on-site production, and just when was the last time the place was looted.  It would be more accurate, dynamic, and balanced in my opinion.  Furthermore, looting doesn't take very long to complete, so it would be difficult to catch someone in the act.  Therefore, looting time should be lengthened, and friendly troops should arrive from neighboring villages and castles.  There is a lot of work to be done to complete all of these aspects, but I think it would be better than just arbitrarily reducing the amount of reward gained from looting. 

As for taxes, they should be more standardized, varied, and balanced according to several things.  The first big thing is how developed the fief is, and to give more information on WHAT improvements to an fief does where taxes, populance, and goods are concerned.  Secondly, each King should require taxes that are according to what the player should be giving, and what the King wants.  Some kings, like the King of the Rhodakians would want sheer manpower (soldiers), while Swadia may need money to pay wages, or the Khan may desire taxes in the form of food.  In the spirit of this, the needs of each King would increase or decrease according to how much warfare, trade, and expenses they are involved in.

In short, I feel things these things could make Mount & Blade more organic in nature, by automating things and making it important for the player to keep up with what is happening.  If an plague occurs and takes out the village's young men, the player would have to figure out a way to produce the troops needed for the King's ranks through other means.  Say, hiring mercenaries or capturing people for recruitment.

 

[allthesedamnnamesaretaken]

Additionally, the King should definitely level a tax on the various lords, to act as another money sink.  This is how it's done in Battle for Sicily (the inspiration for the new game mechanic, I believe).

Actually, you're right, with the inclusion of the tribute to your lord from BfS, the current levels of taxes will work well. however, the loot from raiding villages are still too rich. There's no skill involved in raiding villages at all once you save up for a large army. They never resist, and no enemy armies ever catch you in the act if you are careful

 

[Scorch!]

Sabin Stargem is in my opinion, right, i definitely think this should be implemented, but until then, taxes from your fiefs should be decreased a little.

 

[Ollieh]

I reckon the villagers should attack the looter more often and maybe with a bigger group, thus making it harder to do looting.

 

[kamov23]

I think it's too early to be suggesting reducing loot. if you don't have enough money, how will you build a big enough army to compete with the 100+ armies on the map? Furthermore, in some instances, upgrading you fief can easily cost more than 30000 denars. And to the meat of my argument, not all of the features have been implemented yet, so not only will you have to build you castle, but maybe spend on other things. THis system is just in it's infancy, we must wait for all of the features to be added before the tweaking can begin.

 

[Lt. of the tower]

I think it's too early to be suggesting reducing loot. if you don't have enough money, how will you build a big enough army to compete with the 100+ armies on the map? Furthermore, in some instances, upgrading you fief can easily cost more than 30000 denars. And to the meat of my argument, not all of the features have been implemented yet, so not only will you have to build you castle, but maybe spend on other things. THis system is just in it's infancy, we must wait for all of the features to be added before the tweaking can begin.

Well put if i say so myself

 

[Saxon Searaider]

I got 62000 denars i dont even know what to buy anymore. I think its extremly limited funds 50-100d in the beginning of the game and late game 2000-11000d. Yes i got over 11000 from reveran once but know they only give me 7000. I think it accumulates every week after you payed your army. I even stopped looting now whats the point? i can buy some food from my fiefs anyway for dirt cheap.

 

[Bossman]

It's definately too much because in just few minutes you can gain enough money to buy all the best equipments. Because of that the game becomes boring and too easy way too quickly. 

 

[Saxon Searaider]

I really lifted my eyebrows the first time i got 7700denars from reveran. The time i spent collecting whatever coins i could muster and then all the sudden bam!, here you have enough money to buy whatever you want. I think they should accumulacte 100-150denars a week and castles 100-300denars a week, not several thousends atleast. Why do they live in a village anyway? they have enough income to buy their own castle.

 

[Gregarion Roseby]

Yea I think money is too easy to get. Villages produce too much, they're just poor peasants.

I got about 130,000 denars on me now, and i've bought top equipment for myself and all my heroes. And upgraded my fief 4 times.

I think looting villages should be harder. I think they should resist more often, and they should include some town militia troops, including a leader. Upgrades for towns should include city walls as well. 2-3 entryways. Very high level walls should need ladders and have archer towers. As well as mailed guards.

 

[Jute]

Additionally, the King should definitely level a tax on the various lords, to act as another money sink.  This is how it's done in Battle for Sicily (the inspiration for the new game mechanic, I believe).

I didn't like that, not because of the money sink.  But because I had to go to all my fiefs, collect the money, and then go to the town to pay my dues.  It ended up taking most of the day up so I wasn't able to do much, was a real pain.  It becomes way too overwhelming when you've got a bunch of fiefs that are far apart from each other or far from the town.

 

[Saxon Searaider]

Yeah no running boy errands.

 

[Ingolifs]

I have to agree with this. I started a new game as a merchant, and had a hard initial game with spending money on troops that would constantly die... Bandits repeatedly plastered me all over calradia. Then I successfully raided a village and all of a sudden I had heaps of money. I went from me and 4 sorry looknig worn out heroes, to me, 4 shiny metal heroes and 28 caravan guards in the space of 15 minutes.

 

[kamov23]

but see, now you can survive, so it's not really a bad thing.

 

[snider]

Well it is, it removes any motivation to get richer and takes away a driving force behind playing..

I've been struggling thru the game lately, barely being able to raise enough money to pay off my army every week. And any spare cash instantly going to the next fresh horse, or some stuff for Marnid and Borcha. And I've been loving it.

I have avoided trading, pillaging, taking prisoners and have only bought crisp stuff (no bent, rusty, crude etc. items). Play it like that, and the game is quite well balanced


I like the ideas in this thread, but regardless of whichever features/moneysinks get implemented, more time needs to be spent on balancing the progression, at some point before release.