Longer battles

[Apocal]

Actually I started to notice some AI improvement. Outnumbered raiders taking defensive formation. I can see the same behavior with looters.
I am not sure if it's the 143 or the Realistic battle mod.
The video is not the best quality (PC issue) but it is visible the Sea raiders are picking the right location and proper defensive formation. Nice

That has been in-game for months. There are other spots on other maps where they'll do similar things, like one of the steppe maps they'll cluster around a large boulder to shield themselves from cav charges and arrows on the flanks or a plains (I think) map where they will use a very slight decline as a reverse slope position if you have lots of archers.

And there is of course the notorious "go stand in the middle of the river" defense...

 

[Worlok]

That has been in-game for months.

Yeah, that is possible. I did not play the game for a month. My last play through was in 141 so this can be the reason why I missed this.
Yet, I would like to see this behavior even with same group size or slightly stronger enemy group. AI is usually underestimating my power.

 

[Maximum997]

Have you tested this for yourself?

150-200 HP mod is really good. Now you dont oneshot everything. Armor kinda works, and archers are not OP(enemies even can reach you!!!).

But tournaments can be super painful

 

[Dabos37]

Problem with this is that cavalry is probably much weaker with this mod.

The good thing is that TW has made a pretty deep game and there are tons of parameters to change and test. There is some parameters to change the AI behavior and make them much more likely to block, especially after receive a hit. These things could help a lot in terms of making battles longer when units are engaged in melee.

 

[Maximum997]

Problem with this is that cavalry is probably much weaker with this mod.

Horse HP is higher too. And you can increase charge damage with mods.

 

[Dybra18]

I can say something similar. Enemy is no longer just charging at me, especially if outnumber, and if there is a "right place to hide", like a hill or something they will be standing in there, reducing the impact of my cavalry charges. I have also to say that with the latest 1.4.3, battles are longer and even sieges more interesting (and longer too). None of the less, talking about the single unit, AI is still too reckless. For all the discussions about damage/health, hell no! Let's avoid doing the "usual shallow lame" triple A company solution for "challenging players" aka super tank/rambo AI you'll need 200 arrows to kill and which will single shot you at half a mile with a wooden spoon. In the end I just think DEVS should trim a bit the actual behavior that isn't so bad to start with (in my opinion of course).

PS I am talking basic game, 1.4.3 and NO mods.

 

[Apocal]

150-200 HP mod is really good. Now you dont oneshot everything. Armor kinda works, and archers are not OP(enemies even can reach you!!!).

But tournaments can be super painful

Yeah, I briefly flirted with that sorta thing and it did make battles longer and definitely nerfed archers... to the point you'd never use archers for anything and instead stacked shock infantry to the hilt because they were the only unit capable of killing fast enough to make battles last less than a half an hour.

Then I entered a tournament

Horse HP is higher too. And you can increase charge damage with mods.

They miss most attacks though and only make a few per minute. You're better off with infantry for your killers and using cavalry mainly for pursuit. Even the heavily armored cav that should shine in melee.

 

[Dabos37]

Yeah, I briefly flirted with that sorta thing and it did make battles longer and definitely nerfed archers... to the point you'd never use archers for anything and instead stacked shock infantry to the hilt because they were the only unit capable of killing fast enough to make battles last less than a half an hour.

Then I entered a tournament



They miss most attacks though and only make a few per minute. You're better off with infantry for your killers and using cavalry mainly for pursuit. Even the heavily armored cav that should shine in melee.

Yeah, the 200 HP is not really a good solution in my view. To make battles longer, I think that making the AI more defensive would be probably enough. Plus reducing archers dps which is currently too high. I would love to know if there is a way to reduce reloading speed for archers but this is probably tied to animations and not easy to change.

 

[PanzerSchutzen]

Try the Realistic Battle Mod....I was hesitant about something that changed so much of the gameplay but now I don't know how I played without it. No more quick battles that are over before I can dismount and join the front lines. Health is still realistic so you can still one-hit an unarmored opponent when you have a powerful enough weapon or are pursuing on horseback but armor values make sense and you still require some back and forth against an armored opponent. Slashing through armor is much less effective (and realistic) and now maces actually feel relevant. Archers feel fair.

And I've also noticed the AI being less likely to just charge at the beginning of a battle (that was so annoying and predictable). Not sure if this is a mod thing or 1.4.3.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

Try the Realistic Battle Mod....I was hesitant about something that changed so much of the gameplay but now I don't know how I played without it. No more quick battles that are over before I can dismount and join the front lines. Health is still realistic so you can still one-hit an unarmored opponent when you have a powerful enough weapon or are pursuing on horseback but armor values make sense and you still require some back and forth against an armored opponent. Slashing through armor is much less effective (and realistic) and now maces actually feel relevant. Archers feel fair.

And I've also noticed the AI being less likely to just charge at the beginning of a battle (that was so annoying and predictable). Not sure if this is a mod thing or 1.4.3.

Some of the newer changes to the mod don't quite feel great, like how troops with throwing weapons don't seem to use them anymore. That, and using bows just feels even worse now that the draw speed is so slow.

 

[Maximum997]

Some of the newer changes to the mod don't quite feel great, like how troops with throwing weapons don't seem to use them anymore. That, and using bows just feels even worse now that the draw speed is so slow.

Not sure, did i use this mod or another. But it was really boring to just hitting shield blocks.

 

[Dabos37]

I have tried the realistic battle mod and it has not improve anything of my concerns to be honest. Check this video where I was using Realistic Battle Mod:



Archers are the same, still broken in this mod. I am currently playing with my own mod which reduced 20% all bows and crossbows damage. Plus instead of making units to raise shields all the time and walk slower, I have modified a parameter to allow units to block more effectivelly without using shieldwall. Lastly, I have reduced the T5 archers one hand skill to 100 (from 130). This is the result with my mod:



Archers are still OP but at least they are not ridiculous anymore . I would love to be able to reduce reloading speed for archers intead of damage, but I am a s*** as modder and I do not know how to do it (well, I am not really a modder and I do not want to be a modder, I am just making these changes to help TW to improve the game by giving a better feedback).

 

[black_bulldog]

Some of the newer changes to the mod don't quite feel great, like how troops with throwing weapons don't seem to use them anymore. That, and using bows just feels even worse now that the draw speed is so slow.

I'm not sure what your talking about but with this mod I notice that archers aren't op it's anyone who has a javelin is op. I love to use mountain bandits and the tier 4 guys are killing machines. If you F6 them they'll first skirmish till they run out of javs then either charge or pull back and defend depending on the situation.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

I'm not sure what your talking about but with this mod I notice that archers aren't op it's anyone who has a javelin is op. I love to use mountain bandits and the tier 4 guys are killing machines. If you F6 them they'll first skirmish till they run out of javs then either charge or pull back and defend depending on the situation.

I asked the creator himself, and they did say that they changed same parameters on the troops. The result is that if you f6 them, they will stay in formation better, but won't use their throwing weapons as a preamble to a charge.

Strange though,when I f6 any infantry with throwing weapons they do not skirmish. What version are you even using?

 

[Worlok]

I have tried the realistic battle mod and it has not improve anything of my concerns to be honest. Check this video where I was using Realistic Battle Mod:



Archers are the same, still broken in this mod. I am currently playing with my own mod which reduced 20% all bows and crossbows damage. Plus instead of making units to raise shields all the time and walk slower, I have modified a parameter to allow units to block more effectivelly without using shieldwall. Lastly, I have reduced the T5 archers one hand skill to 100 (from 130). This is the result with my mod:



Archers are still OP but at least they are not ridiculous anymore . I would love to be able to reduce reloading speed for archers intead of damage, but I am a s*** as modder and I do not know how to do it (well, I am not really a modder and I do not want to be a modder, I am just making these changes to help TW to improve the game by giving a better feedback).

You picking up 50 of the best archers in the game and you wonder they are overpowered?
How about to try to use the 50 PG against 120 Elite Cataphracts? I would be curious how overpowered would be the archers...

 

[Dabos37]

You picking up 50 of the best archers in the game and you wonder they are overpowered?
How about to try to use the 50 PG against 120 Elite Cataphracts? I would be curious how overpowered would be the archers...

50 T5 archers can only be considered OP if they would be able to beat 120 noble T7 Cav units? Ok.

 

[Worlok]

50 T5 archers can only be considered OP if they would be able to beat 120 noble T7 Cav units? Ok.

That was not the point.

 

[Dabos37]

That was not the point.

50 T5 archers being able to wreck a whole army which is actully stronger according to strength bar and geting 0 losses, is more than enough to consider them OP. Especially if 50 T5 Legionary units or 50 T5 Vanguard units are not even able to win the same battle.

 

[BoBB]

Agreed, considering that we can't issue any commands beforehand and can preplace our troops it's way too fast. Add to the fact that enemy troops just start rushing and even infantry absolutely flies across the screen at us it can get a bit frantic if you don't have the control commands memorized.

Spot on. Infantry is too fast. Infantry should be slower and they ought to use their shields more.

 

[black_bulldog]

Spot on. Infantry is too fast. Infantry should be slower and they ought to use their shields more.

The whole foot speed thing is ridiculous to me. You start off slow as a turtle and once your character is in decent in athletics 90-100 you can move pretty fast, by the time you hit 200 or so your character looks like Usain Bolt flying across the screen. Idk wtf TW was thinking but it wasn't about reality.