Leveling up your character decreases your skill learning rate for all skills

Carabus

Sergeant
Best answers
0
The mechanic is counterintuitive and not described anywhere.

Based on research done by people in this reddit thread: link

The formula for skill learning rate is:
LearningRate = 20 / ( 10 + HeroLevel) * (1 + 0.4 * Attribute + Focus)

The first part 20 / ( 10 + HeroLevel) is presented as "Base" in skill learning tooltip, and it acts as multiplier to the whole learning rate.
It means that:
- hero at level 10 will have (base 1.00) and will get xp -45% slower than hero at level 1 (base 1.82)
- hero at level 20 will have (base 0.66) and will get xp another -33% slower than at level 10 (base 1.00).

The counterintuitive thing is that it scales down with character level, which means character gaining skill levels in one skill, enough to level up, causes his learning rate to drop for all skills. It is counterintuitive, because player may want to level up easier skills to accumulate attribute points and focus points, so then he can learn some harder skill at increased rate. But with current formula before he accumulates these points, his learning rate will already drop from just leveling itself. Which to be honest has demotivated me quite a lot when I learned about it...

I understand that player progression should be harder for high level characters but for that, we already have skill learning rate getting lower the closer you are to learning limits, and also xp required for each level getting higher with each level. Having learning rate of skill you didn't even use yet, drop with your character level, it just as counterintuitive as it could be.

And because every good thread deserves screenshots:
Here is my character at level 1 and level 7:


As you see the learning rate of Smithing, the skill I didn't even use yet on this character, dropped from 4.00 to 2.59 (which is -35%), simply because my character leveled from level 1 to level 7 by fighting looters... Very demotivating...
 
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Matador234

Recruit
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0
Yes, all the numbers in the leveling system were probably done by a drunk intern 5 minutes before launch and no one at Taleworlds bothered to check if it made any sense yet. Just wait until they come around to actually work on it.

For now, just assume this is a purely skill-based game with no leveling system attached to it (most perks also don't work without mods).
 

paladinx333

Sergeant at Arms
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0
No wonder everything is so slow. I mean, it's slow to being with and then it gets S-L-O-W-E-R. I am going to finish helping the Vlandians take over the world and then I am going to hang up my sword until someone, modders perhaps, fixes this mess.

:xf-mad:
 

somaholiday

Regular
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0
Yes, all the numbers in the leveling system were probably done by a drunk intern 5 minutes before launch and no one at Taleworlds bothered to check if it made any sense yet. Just wait until they come around to actually work on it.

For now, just assume this is a purely skill-based game with no leveling system attached to it (most perks also don't work without mods).
Haha, this was good. Thanks for the laugh dude. Yeah, I've been trying to post the arithmetic mistake in other threads where people are complaining about slow gains or modifiers not adding up in an effort to spread the word...it's pretty bizarre that this isn't a high priority item.
 

Lord Irontoe

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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0
As if that's not bad enough, even if you have 10 in an attribute and 5 focus points in a skill, it's not enough to raise your learning limit enough to get the last couple perks. It maxes out at around 240.
 

Nikomakkos

Knight at Arms
WBVC
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0
Haha, this was good. Thanks for the laugh dude. Yeah, I've been trying to post the arithmetic mistake in other threads where people are complaining about slow gains or modifiers not adding up in an effort to spread the word...it's pretty bizarre that this isn't a high priority item.
Yes, I asked them to put it higher on the priority yesterday in the suggestions forum.
 

pada

Sergeant
Best answers
1
ok im level 18, only smithing over 150. tons of tournaments and battles. my 1 handed skill is 86.

meanwhile my companions have 90-180 skills at level 18. ridiculous. stop nerfing tournamnet xp!!! why is this a big deal to let us skill up in tournaments?
 

White Ahroun

Banned
Best answers
0
Jesus Christ, this is just horrible. It was already a bad mess.
Overstating it, but it definitely needs fixing. Actually, I won't say "definitely." Kinda makes sense if you look at it a certain way. Character's brain can only handle so much information. Level up one skill, the rest learn slower. Might be intentional.
 

Ironking

Sergeant at Arms
WBVC
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0
Its ok its just that the system favours highly specialised characters. However you plan your character to be do that from the get go. Don't think to specialise some minor skills first and then your major.
Also for non combat focused characters its better to actually stay out of combat and not level those skills. Jack of all trades builds are not advisable.
 

Carabus

Sergeant
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0
Thinking more about this, it occured to me that maybe it is a typo and the formula is meant to include character age and not character level?
It would certainly make much more sense. After all if there is any trait that should decrease learning rate of all skills it would most likely be aging.
And the whole "Base" modifier had to be made for some purpose, it is not just added there at random, maybe it is just meant to make aging characters learn skills slower, but the typo ruined it?
 

mamastoast

Regular
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0
*rubs head*

So... let me get the this... If I wanted to level up 1 handed I would need to put focus points in 1 handed and attribute points in Vigor. To gain these points I need to gain levels... To gain levels I need to level up my 1 handed(and other skills). After 70-100 ish the rate at which I level up skills drastically decrease, meaning I can no longer rely on the skills I'm actually using to gain levels to gain attribute/focus points to increase the level up rate.

This means I now need to use random low level skills to gain levels to gain attribrute/focus to invest into Vigor/1handed... And now you're telling me that increasing my level also causes my skills to increase slower...


Am I missing something? Or is there no way to actually focus on a skill? I don't understand what you're actually supposed to do...
 

Nikomakkos

Knight at Arms
WBVC
Best answers
0
*rubs head*

So... let me get the this... If I wanted to level up 1 handed I would need to put focus points in 1 handed and attribute points in Vigor. To gain these points I need to gain levels... To gain levels I need to level up my 1 handed(and other skills). After 70-100 ish the rate at which I level up skills drastically decrease, meaning I can no longer rely on the skills I'm actually using to gain levels to gain attribute/focus points to increase the level up rate.

This means I now need to use random low level skills to gain levels to gain attribrute/focus to invest into Vigor/1handed... And now you're telling me that increasing my level also causes my skills to increase slower...


Am I missing something? Or is there no way to actually focus on a skill? I don't understand what you're actually supposed to do...
It's going to get overhauled, it's just a question of when. I made a suggestion that it be prioritized in the suggestions thread but it probably gets drowned in all the suggestions that are flowing in.
 

Neodymus

Regular
Best answers
0
tbh I like that it discourages the leveling of "easier" skills just to level up and fain faster progress towards other skills. This process just feels wrong on so many levels and I always hated this in similar leveling mechanics.

Now the way they discourage it is definitely not optimally and comes with its own set of problems, but the whole system requires tuning first anyway.