Leveling skills is tedious and unbalanced

Users who are viewing this thread

hsngrms

Regular
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
It is good you have to trade to level up your trading skill, however, tying it to same AP and FP like you used for 1H, 2H etc. is disrupting the advancement.

Let's say I put all my points in VIG, CTR, END, 1H, 2H, POL, BOW, XBW, THR. I can still buy cheap and sell high in huge amounts, right? Than why the heck I cannot level enough in that skill if I'm able to do that.

I think battling skills and personality skills should have separate leveling system like below.

bannerlordskills.jpg


Smithing and Tactics positions should be changed since Tactics is battle related but smithing is not. Trade and Medicine positions should be changed too. (Helping wounded should be considered a Socialized action, while you should be Intelligent enough to buy cheap, sell higher, otherwise other merchants can spoof you.)

So, let's say you want to be a Tactician IN BATTLES, spend your BATTLING AP & FP points you EARNED IN BATTLES.
Or you want to be a Merchant OUTSIDE OF BATTLES, spend your PERSONALITY AP & FP points you EARNED OUTSIDE OF BATTLES.
Also, Medicine should not be increased when someone dies in battle, it should be only increased when you treat wounded OUTSIDE OF BATTLES.

And more importantly, since we have a level and exp system which dictates how many AP & FP we can earn, it should be better to separate them too. That means everyone will have two levels, battling level and personality level. If that will be too hard to implement, then at least we should gain 1 Battling & 1 Personality AP/FP together, so we can keep a single level but separately focus on two aspects we want.
 

Helerek

Recruit
(Helping wounded should be considered a Socialized action, while you should be Intelligent enough to buy cheap, sell higher, otherwise other merchants can spoof you.)
Big no. It's not a witchcraft to try and tell my wife that the arrow in her abdomen doesn't exist. You need intellect to know how to extract it (or more like push it deeper :^)).
I understand your idea and it isn't bad. However problem is the pace at which we gain lvls and it needs to be adjusted. It shouldn't be allowed for a game that majority players beat the game, without reaching the last perk.
I believe last perks should be available to us when we hit 6th clan tier (around when we form our kingdom and have like 9/towns and 9 castles. Which I would call a start of end game (right now it's start of snowball and game over. Since there's 0 difficulty/enemy scaling in game).
Dividing xp gained for outside of party and inside party managment might be nice idea, but again. Let's fix progression of perks first and then fix the attributes/skills.
 

EverKira

Recruit
First: A lot of the things that should give XP for several skills just don't give any XP at all. Selling loot should give Trade or Roguery XP. It gives neither. Levelling troops up should give Leadership XP because good leaders train up their commands. It gives nothing.,

Second: There shouldn't be a hard cap. You should get a massive skill XP penalty. Like .01% of the overall XP once you are over what is currently the hard cap that gets slightly lower ever skill level over this cap.

Third: I should be able to pick any available perk every 25 skill levels. You still have to have unlocked the perks by reaching their tier, but sometimes the lower tier option I didn't pick is better than the higher tier options.

I understand that I might be the only one who wants the last two points but I think both would improve the game incredible.
 

Helerek

Recruit
First: A lot of the things that should give XP for several skills just don't give any XP at all. Selling loot should give Trade or Roguery XP. It gives neither. Levelling troops up should give Leadership XP because good leaders train up their commands. It gives nothing.,
That's very subjective. I don't think murdering villagers and selling their cloth should make me a supply and demand genius. I think trading is fine as it is, just add caravan/workshop xp and multiply normal trading xp.
As for leadership giving xp for leveling up units, it's reasonable. Geting xp for leading army and high morale, is not enough in my opinion. There should be more ways to level it.
Second: There shouldn't be a hard cap. You should get a massive skill XP penalty. Like .01% of the overall XP once you are over what is currently the hard cap that gets slightly lower ever skill level over this cap.
I agree. Hard cap is terrible design. I will make a mod to limit xp gain to 1.00 at the bottom and increase focus/attribute multiplier (reduce the decline). This will allow my int character to get 100-150 one handed (like in warband you could still reach 200-300 proficiency with 0 weapon proficiency, meaning that the more you played the more skilled warrior you were, just slower).
Third: I should be able to pick any available perk every 25 skill levels. You still have to have unlocked the perks by reaching their tier, but sometimes the lower tier option I didn't pick is better than the higher tier options.
I think most of the perks are pretty mediocre. To the point where some players (you) want to pick lower tier perks? That just shows how bad tier progression is. Maybe there will be a way/mod to adjust it.
I understand that I might be the only one who wants the last two points but I think both would improve the game incredible.
No you aren't. I always wanted to remove the hard cap and I was really bothered with perks. I was thinking more of redoing them instead of going for lower tier perks. Or even redo the skills all over. Like remove good personal perks and put them in level skill. I mean at lvl 5 you get 1 perk lvl 10 another perk tier etc. So you get a free leveling tree. Add there smithing/athletics/armorer/fletcher for example. So you don't feel like wasting skills to level armor/smith just to craft weapon/armor.
 

EverKira

Recruit
That's very subjective. I don't think murdering villagers and selling their cloth should make me a supply and demand genius. I think trading is fine as it is, just add caravan/workshop xp and multiply normal trading xp.
I was really trying to point out that the section of the gameplay loop: fighting battles, getting loot, selling loot to fund future battles, doesn't give any xp at all. I can understand your argument that it wouldn't make you a supply and demand savant, but it should still give you some xp somewhere which is why I mentioned roguery.
 

Cenobite

Recruit
I found leveling up certain skills was hard in this game more so then previous games.
First i'll start with medical skills like Surgeon.
Take way to long to raise to a useful level which is around 60, i had high intel and 4 focus points to get a minimum of 8 on the learning curb for leveling and it still stakes ages getting wounded by looters and running around healing up you & companions till skill raises to get good perks which then makes the skill useful.
In older games the skills were broken up between First Aid & Surgery skill which over time had different effects when raising level.

Rougery Skill which is a new skill needs a few things to work good, need high cunning and a few focus points before it starts to move at any decent rate selling prisoners at taverns or betting in tournaments which doesn't seem to increase skill much.
I think there should be a party role in Clan Tab for rouges so you can set your highest skilled rouge in charge of prisoners, betting or other black market duties which may include selling gear to bandits or looters or dealing with local criminals & gang leaders which should require more rougery to be impressed by not charm, valor or generosity.

All you can do if you want a skill to raise quickly is take as many focus points as you can to a max of 5 then have high attribute for that skill so you get maximum learning increases so the skill levels quicker when you do use the skill.

Some skills are automatic and passive they go up like Surgeon or Scouting as you move around the map & regenerate or track targets to raise in skill while others like melee skills you gain per hit that causes damage to an NPC.
Riding skill will raise on the battlefield and on the map as you move across the world.
So some skills are used more often and raise quicker while others unless your specifically using them they wont raise ever like Siege skills.

I will also add the new Tier system slows game play down, requires tier 3 renown before you can enter keeps to speak with nobles & tier four min for starting your own faction, so that's a lot of leveling and scouring the map with companions killing bandits & looters & doing tournaments for renown just to get the required amount to start a real army & campaign for the entire map.

It takes years in game to build a good clan with the diplomacy required to claim the entire map and make all factions submit to your power, either via diplomacy & economics or through constant war which is a slow grind of catching lords putting them in jail till they die.. That's if they don't escape & start a new army for that faction.
 
Last edited:

Cenobite

Recruit
The system is fine. It's just way way too slow for some skills, even with 5 focus points into it.
Medicine and Leadership are a pain to level up. Not fun at all, even with full points.
Charm and Stewardship are fun because you actually make progress.
Leveling up your weapon feels good, as there is plenty opportunity. It's just pretty dumb that you can't level them in the Arena.

I don't even bother with Trade, Roguery, Engineering, Tactics, Scouting...
They are not worth the huge grind it takes to level them.

Skyrim at least had skill trainers where you could level up, Bannerlord has nothing.
I agree, i'm sure older games like Warband there was a teaching skill where you could teach others skill while spending time in party, they should add in you can set the character or companions to train others in skill. Say i have an Engineer with high skill and in party menu i would select another companion or the character to learn the skill like you set party Scout or Surgeon in the Clan Tab.

Jagged Alliance 2 did that and it was a great system.
 

Helerek

Recruit
Rougery Skill
Main increase for roguery is prison breaks (A looooot of xp and sneaking in towns).
as many focus points as you can to a max of 5
Problem is increasing speed rate of already slow skill, will not fix the late game. Geting medicine to 100-150 fast ok. Then you have to get to 300 slow. The learning rate is way too slow tbh.
requires tier 3
You can enter keeps at tier 0/1, just need to pay gold for it. You can become mercenary of a kingdom at tier 1 and vassal at tier 2 (gaining free acces to that kingdom keeps). Also you can just ask to talk to nobles in castle without entering it and do quests same was as tier 3. It's just a nuisance, but not a wall is what I mean.
Jagged Alliance 2 did that and it was a great system.
It sounds like ok system, problem is in Warband it worked, because lvling was based on xp. Not on skills. It's gonna be a bit different. Also another problem is why would you have 2 medics in a party.
I was really trying to point out that the section of the gameplay loop: fighting battles, getting loot, selling loot to fund future battles, doesn't give any xp t all. I can understand your argument that it wouldn't make you a supply and demand savant, but it should still give you some xp somewhere which is why I mentioned roguery.
Yeah, but we don't need to reward players for everything or we will end up like in this.
 

Cenobite

Recruit
You might train a second medic for another party or companions so when they are your lords in you're faction they use that skill level and perks too heal armies and any companion in those armies.

You need tier 3 Renown to enter keeps if you don't want to bribe you're way in yes... but i'm such a miser that doesn't like wasting cash on bribes when it will be free soon enough after i kill a couple hundred looters with giant AFRO"S, Never seen so many afro's in game before it's like a Black Lives Matter movement without the banners! One thing i think this game has lacked over the years is Banners and proper jousting lances.
 
Last edited:

JunKeteer

Regular
Think in the last SP update posted, there are plans to implement re-spec'ing for characters which is an easy solution to the above. Not to say some skills still need some fine tuning and balancing on the exp gains.
But this should allow us to essentially 'RP' as combat focus during our character's 'younger' years, then maybe re-focus that 'exp' later on into the governing/leadership (or other) skill perks. TBD how it actually works once implemented.
 

Helerek

Recruit
You might train a second medic for another party or companions so when they are your lords in you're faction they use that skill level and perks too heal armies and any companion in those armies.

You need tier 3 Renown to enter keeps if you don't want to bribe you're way in yes... but i'm such a miser that doesn't like wasting cash on bribes when it will be free soon enough after i kill a couple hundred looters with giant AFRO"S, Never seen so many afro's in game before it's like a Black Lives Matter movement without the banners! One thing i think this game has lacked over the years is Banners and proper jousting lances.
As I said, if you join some kingdom as mercenary on tier 1. You will gain access to their fiefs. I think it's fair way to balance renown requirement. It's similar to Warband where you needed 100/200 renown to become vassal (here it's 100/150) and they would only let you inside the halls after wining an arena tournament.
 
Top Bottom