And also make the offsprings inherit a big portion of their parents stats !
A more elegant and immersive solution would be to have a mentoring mechanic.And also make the offsprings inherit a big portion of their parents stats !
I appreciate you trying to put some better ideas to this. The only way your going to get your great ideas implemented, or others here, is if they stop trying to make it a system that provides little reward while punishing the player.So after the last update I had to remove a mod I was using called experience multiplier, after removing it I can't believe how bad leveling still is in vanilla and can't stand it. The way it scales and especially how learning rate decrease for all skills is ridiculous and needs some tuning. Not that it matters but here is what I would suggest:
1. Each attribute group learning rate should be independent and only go down as those skill are leveled, leveling vigor skills should not affect learning rate of endurance skills etc.
2. The beginning is balanced nice but falls apart at about level 12-15 and the grind is near impossible. 10 years into a game and my character barely has the skills of a recruit in a FEW skills only.
3. Make Attributes do something other than learning rate. Make vigor increase damage by 1% for each level and top out at 10% for example.
4. Balance experience gains from level12+, gets too hard at the high levels. I have 705 hours in this game and I have never maxed out or even come close to maxing out a skill. Maybe 200 at best!
Otherwise can't play this game without x5 experience multiplier
yes, still waiting for improvements...- level up slows down must go this is arbitrary player harrassment with not a single good point about it
it is really bad... The only thing an attribute gives you is increased exp gain. But leveling up also takes that away... it's a completely unrewarding system that I wish to see go as soon as possible. You don't even get that many attribute points to begin with. They can lower the amount of exp bonus an attribute gives, but make it a permanent thing... that way you can either apply all attribute points in one set of skills and get decent leveling speed even at later levels, but that would of course make it very slow to level other skills if you dont have attributes/focus points, or you can play a jack of all trades character that can invest attributes in every set of skills but leveling will be fairly slow, and chances are you won't reach the 300 perk in anything too soon. Really hope for some improvements in this.- First and foremost, get entirely rid of the "level up slows down xp". Skills already requires more and more xp for each new rank, no need to compound with another layer of increase. It's completely pointless.
If anything, Attributes should have a greater influence on learning rate (it's currently much less per point than per focus point), and/or limit how many focus points you can assign - for example, if you have Intelligence 1, you can't assign 5 focus points (more like Warband).Attributes only increase learning limit which is already done by focus points, basically doing nothing except artificially limiting what skills you can choose to increase together for synergy.
trade + smithing as an example, these 2 skills logically fit together. make stuff and use trade to sell for higher profit but being put under different attributes means it costs more points to max them both.
I do agree... not only the leveling progression, but the perks need more work as well. I share the sentiment with weapon skills being useless because you can one-shot people no matter how much skill you have. The same goes for trading, after trading until 100 skill you already have all the money you need to start off so grinding until 300 would only be for RP purposes. Charm does indeed have TERRIBLE perks...What I further don't like, regarding attributes, is the redundancy and disparity between the attribute skill sets.
Vigor: Redundant and near useless: You can 1hko guys with 0 melee skill. Why go for over 200 by investing attributes here? In unmodded game getting more then 1 weapon above 200 is a life long process. Polearm is so much more powerful and useful the other 2 can't even compare.
Control: Redundant and high disparity: Bow is good, really good, Xbow is.... not as good.... throwing is.... fun for RP stuff? Getting more then 1 of these is just not attractive or useful at all and the benefit of Bow is so massive over the other 2 it's silly. Even the passive perks of bow dwarf those of the other 2.
Endurance: Riding is the fastest skill in the game(if you use a bow), athletics is..... a lot slower If you fight on horse you will be getting riding
skillEXP TO LEVEL UP no matter what you do, so you might as well make sure you some skill too. Riding and athletics are both useful with good perks, smithing is a YMMV thing, I skip it entirely unless testing a change, but if fixed it would be a great skill too.
Cunning (lol): This one is almost good! Scouting is a decently leveling passive skill with some great payoffs for the MC! Tactics is pretty slow and situational, but does have other goodies mixed in and simulated battles will come up eventually. Roguery is super slow and a mix of okay perks and very questionable perks. IME you will get 275+ scouting if you build Cunning in not to long of game time, tactics and roguery will still be in the low hundreds though.... they very very slow even with 10 cunning. The name makes me giggle every time.
Social: 1 diamond, 2 turds. Leadership is super useful but requires armies (or large party) to really build up. Charm is a useless pile of garbage.... when you get relations up you learn this skill that gives you slightly more relations up when your relations go up....wtf get this yo dog meme skill out of my game!
I've done chars with and without charm and it makes no difference in the ease of anything. You might assume it does but you just haven't payed very close attention!
Trade is super slow and completely worthless if you are even slightly competent at building your warband and fighting. It's like throwing, only for RP game.
INT: Almost good! Steward will raise nicely, medicine and engineering are dead turtles being pushed by a snail, TOO SLOW. Medicine makes you do ***backwards stuff to raise it and engineering is currently useless IMO because no matter what you do it's still safer to just retreat you party and kill the garrison solo. Someday when they make siege good, engineer will be super good.
You can expect to gain 8 attributes via leveling in a game, so no matter what your starting choices you can max out one set to 10. That's not enough.
I really dislike the skills being lumped together and requiring attributes to reach the higher skill levels. I want to max only the skills that I actually want (and will actually raise), not 1 skill I want and 2 piles of garbage. It also doesn't fit with the clan role assignment. If I manage to build a clan mamber to have high INT they cannot be steward, engineer and Medic? That's stupid! Only the MC can do multiple roles, but you'll be level 25 before you blink and you medicine and engineering skills will be completely stunted forever.
Me too, you can snag the 200 perks with just 5 fp though, I start with polearm and if the game actually goes so long without update/restart I go for 2 handed as well!I literally only try to get melee skills up to get the bonus hp for the troops
They are, however you're stuck with just the light Xbow on horseback until a fairly high perk and you can't shoot behind you as you ride as much as with bow, makes it not useful for mounted combat, particularly kitting infantry blobs and popping em as the conga at you.Also crossbow seems decent to me
definitely most effective against the conga xDMe too, you can snag the 200 perks with just 5 fp though, I start with polearm and if the game actually goes so long without update/restart I go for 2 handed as well!
They are, however you're stuck with just the light Xbow on horseback until a fairly high perk and you can't shoot behind you as you ride as much as with bow, makes it not useful for mounted combat, particularly kitting infantry blobs and popping em as the conga at you.
If anything, Attributes should have a greater influence on learning rate (it's currently much less per point than per focus point), and/or limit how many focus points you can assign - for example, if you have Intelligence 1, you can't assign 5 focus points (more like Warband).
Trading and smithing don't particularly fit together. One is buying and selling for a profit, the other is making stuff - and selling crafted stuff doesn't touch trade at all, as you didn't buy it so don't 'profit'. But people take this too literally (and over-emphasise the learning rate slowdown). But fundamentally, it's not very different to how it was done in Warband either, with skills limited to a proportion of the value of an attribute.
Those vanilla figures aren't accurate. Are you looking at the 'learning limit' defined by the green area? It's not the true cap (which is a bit past it). 10 Attribute + 5 focus points caps at over 300. Formula is ( Attribute * 14 ) - 10 + ( 40 * Focus Points).Then there is the actual leveling. You only get 1 attribute point ever what, 4 levels. That means you can get a max of 10 points I think? That would be all well and good I guess but considering the only way to get a high level of skill is to have 10 attribute points in a given stat your kind of screwed. For example 5 attribute points and 5 focus points in a given skill tops out at around 100-150 skill or something like that before you start reaching caps. Even 10 attribute and 5 focus skills caps at around 250. With only 10 attribute points in 40 levels to spread over what is it 8 stats?, your going to be lucky to be able to break 100 skill in more than a few areas.
Personally I think the hard and soft caps need to disappear and you should be able to max out your skills eventually even if you only have 1 attribute and 1 focus point in a skill. There absolutely shouldn't be a hard cap, ever. Also you should probably get at least an attribute point every other level rather than every 4 levels.
The good news is, none of this is really an issue because wait for it.....MODS. Yep, Taleworlds doesn't need to do a thing, if you don't like the leveling, just mod the game so that the leveling pace suits you. That is the amazing thing about his game, the capability to do this. Personally I have my game modded to give me one Attribute and 1 Focus point per level. I think I also have another mod that increases the skill gain a bit too. Both combined and I seem to have a good leveling rate. At level 30 I think I have 3 skills at 100, 2 more at 150, one at 200 and one at 255 which seems about right at level 30.
I agree.Why though?
Attributes dont need to exist because you have 2 mechanics doing the same thing, no one would notice a meaningful difference if they were deleted next patch and numbers tweaked to be the same as with them.
Hmmm, so in warband you level up and by building up your attributes you gain the right to raise their skills with SP, but you gain the skill immediately.If anything, Attributes should have a greater influence on learning rate (it's currently much less per point than per focus point), and/or limit how many focus points you can assign - for example, if you have Intelligence 1, you can't assign 5 focus points (more like Warband).
It's treu but many skills have the 275 perk that keeps growing until 330, so going all in is pretty good for things like uncanny insight on scouting or the leadership one.So, depending on what perk trees you want to max out - you need a 7 attribute (+5 fps) to reach 275 (288 ), and 8 to reach 300 (302). You don't 'need' 10 in anything.
Another illness is that the player gets stuff he cannot use -> captain/governor skills. We can neither appoint our main character to captain as he is always member of no group or make him governor making many perks look good on the paper but useless in reality.