Let's see how different factions react to large battles...

[uncreative]

I sort of predicted this would happen - the Khergits always were really weak.

Khergits = fail.


However, it seems it doesn't seem right that tactics weren't used for the infantry and archers - an infantryman doesn't recklessly charge a horseman, does he? Cavalry I understand - you can't really control those.


Also, if you just leave archers on charge, the crappy game AI will cause the archers to walk right into the enemy and die.

Archers are supposed to shoot from a distance, not walk into the enemy.

Interesting, as attacking steppe nomads or khergit deserters at the begining is considered hardest amongst all factions/units. But the case here is that if in very large numbers, horse archers don't use their usual skirmishing techniquees? Would this be solved by having only 23 units in a battle at all times?

 

[duracell]

Just a couple of things:

Vaegir marksmen has a typo in their stats, at least I hardly can imagine that the 250+ main weapon proficiency was intentional.

Rhodoks are totaly messed up at the moment, for example higher tiers sometimes has lower stats than the lower tiers 
Rhodoks are waaay better with the modul system stats.
(I hope with 1.0 we will get formations and the spears will not suck anymore on foot too)

Khergits sucked in the test ironically because they were represented by their top tier units
Lancers have coursers witch looks cool and such but performs horribly against everything, always stops and rears when the Lancers try to charge infantry, Lancers get dehorsed surprisingly fast by arrowfire etc. coursers are glasshorses.

Khergit horsemen come always with hunters and because of this they are way better against infantry, horsemen with lance comes usually (always?) without shield so they actually couch their lances while the Lancers are just stubbing around without much effect, Lancers are practically a step-back compared to Khergit Horsemen especially now that cavalry with shields almost never couch their lances.

Nord archers are always winners against any other archers because they are not archers, they are infantry, half of them will come without bows so they will instantly charge down the enemy archers and beat them in melee.

 

[Æon]

Just a couple of things:

Vaegir marksmen has a typo in their stats, at least I hardly can imagine that the 250+ main weapon proficiency was intentional.

Rhodoks are totaly messed up at the moment, for example higher tiers sometimes has lower stats than the lower tiers 
Rhodoks are waaay better with the modul system stats.
(I hope with 1.0 we will get formations and the spears will not suck anymore on foot too)

Khergits sucked in the test ironically because they were represented by their top tier units
Lancers have coursers witch looks cool and such but performs horribly against everything, always stops and rears when the Lancers try to charge infantry, Lancers get dehorsed surprisingly fast by arrowfire etc. coursers are glasshorses.

Khergit horsemen come always with hunters and because of this they are way better against infantry, horsemen with lance comes usually (always?) without shield so they actually couch their lances while the Lancers are just stubbing around without much effect, Lancers are practically a step-back compared to Khergit Horsemen especially now that cavalry with shields almost never couch their lances.

Nord archers are always winners against any other archers because they are not archers, they are infantry, half of them will come without bows so they will instantly charge down the enemy archers and beat them in melee.

See, you're pointing out why things suck. That was the point of the test, to see which faction troops suck.

 

[Selvhan]

I always use swadia because i prefer cavalry units. As long as the infantry won`t use any formation, cavalry will be stronger...

Now i am not surprise to see the result, just take a look at the stats in the module system... Nords are stronger.

But you know.. being charged by a horse is really not what it is in m&b. An armored destrier would kill you just by charging you.... Knight were considered like tank in Medieval era.

 

[duracell]

See, you're pointing out why things suck. That was the point of the test, to see which faction troops suck.

Yes, the test pointed out which faction troops suck, and I pointed out why they suck, I did that... obviously... yes.

 

[Æon]

See, you're pointing out why things suck. That was the point of the test, to see which faction troops suck.

Yes, the test pointed out which faction troops suck, and I pointed out why they suck, I did that... obviously... yes.

Oh, I thought you were defending the troops as though it wasn't their fault.

 

[Ambaryerno]

But you know.. being charged by a horse is really not what it is in m&b. An armored destrier would kill you just by charging you.... Knight were considered like tank in Medieval era.

Small groups and thin lines, maybe, but against massed infantry, especially spear-armed, a frontal charge even by heavy cavalry is suicidal.

 

[The Mercenary]

But you know.. being charged by a horse is really not what it is in m&b. An armored destrier would kill you just by charging you.... Knight were considered like tank in Medieval era.

Small groups and thin lines, maybe, but against massed infantry, especially spear-armed, a frontal charge even by heavy cavalry is suicidal.

I object! My Swadian lancers cut through a Rhodok mass like a spear through heavy cavalry, with maybe only one casualty. And that's rare.

 

[Orj]

My Swadian lancers cut through a Rhodok mass like a spear through heavy cavalry.

...Wha-

--Error. Orj has experienced a brain malfunction. Please insert new simile and try again.--

 

[cremo]

great thread!
thanks for the very helpfull info!

Didn't tought nords were that powerfull in open combat against all those mounted troops (tought that the swadians and khergits horse archers would have given then an harder time) and exspecially that khergits sucked so much! (seemed to me they were so strong in  native.. but probably it's linked to the fact that BIG battles don't occur often.. so maybe since khergits rock with their skirmish numbers it's fair they aren't that great in big battles).

I totally predicted how rodoks would have ended due to spears sucking in foot-combat in current m&b versions..


Actually anyway i think that from those experience the game should be tweaked like this:
- improve spears (or do something to make those rhodok spearmen NASTY to cavalry: it's fine for me they get melted by nords on foot.. but i think that to "balance" the game, nords should have a lot more difficulties against shock cavalry)
- maybe debuff shields for the AI?  I mean: i use a tower shield with 10 shield skill and yet I have to fear to face 5 bandits shooting at me..  while NPCS (even without any goot shield skill) seem to have an ANTI-MISSILE-SHIELD wich makes them unable to get hit while they hold it (you have to shoot at the foot to try and have  a "chance" to hit them even if they are wearing a small plain shield!).. nords should have more difficulties dealing against ranged superiority in open field i guess..   
Yet i don't know.. because in sieges infantry gets pwned so much...

ummmm

 

[pedrodiniz92]

Didn't tought ... powerfull ... (tought that ... exspecially ... rodoks

... i think that from those experience ... (even without any goot shield skill) ... wich ...

Let's all get this dude a dictionary, for heaven's sake.

 

[Dreen]

Great thread!

Man, if you have any time, you definitely have to test Sieges.

And I mean like, different types of troops vs each other. It would be interesting to see if Huscarls can take the castle protected by Vaegir Marksmen for example (they probably would )

And also, terrain plays huge role. Cavalry is much less effective on steep mountains, while archers are more (though that depends on when they see the enemy).

 

[Ambaryerno]

But you know.. being charged by a horse is really not what it is in m&b. An armored destrier would kill you just by charging you.... Knight were considered like tank in Medieval era.

Small groups and thin lines, maybe, but against massed infantry, especially spear-armed, a frontal charge even by heavy cavalry is suicidal.

I object! My Swadian lancers cut through a Rhodok mass like a spear through heavy cavalry, with maybe only one casualty. And that's rare.

I can stop Swadian cavalry dead in their tracks with Nord infantry, even with mid-level troops against knights.

Even on flat ground, Hold Position + Stand Closer to create a doubled line. 99% of the time the charge breaks.

 

[stuh42l]

A Jarid to the face of King Harlaus helps too!

 

[napancux]

[quote author=Ambaryerno]I can stop 5 Swadian cavalry dead in their tracks with 60 Nord Veterans.[/quote]
Fixed.

 

[Snook]

My 60 Huscarls demolish almost any foe that faces them. The only battle I lost is against a party of 400 Khergits on flat, open plain.

 

[Gargret]

did you only test khergit lancers against other factions? Try a mixture of 3:1:1 of khergit vet. horse archers, khergit lancers and khergit horsemen or variations of those three units. A pure K. lancer army is quite useless.

 

[OL 512]

I can stop Swadian cavalry dead in their tracks with Nord infantry, even with mid-level troops against knights.

Even on flat ground, Hold Position + Stand Closer to create a doubled line. 99% of the time the charge breaks.

ha , cuz YOU where there , and expecify what cavalry , men at arms? , swadian knight?

impossible a nord infantry kill that easy the knight , even if you outnumber by 3 to 1...

 

[Ambaryerno]

Knights.

Massed infantry + charging knights = roadblock.

 

[The Mercenary]

My Swadian lancers cut through a Rhodok mass like a spear through heavy cavalry.

...Wha-

--Error. Orj has experienced a brain malfunction. Please insert new simile and try again.--

That simile was supposed to be odd. My definition of irony is something that is the opposite of what you expect it to be, so I'm calling that ironic.

I can stop Swadian cavalry dead in their tracks with Nord infantry, even with mid-level troops against knights.

Even on flat ground, Hold Position + Stand Closer to create a doubled line. 99% of the time the charge breaks.

Last time I held a line against Swadian cavalry was when I was fighting for King Ragnar. Lost fifty soldiers. We killed twenty knights. It was a sad, sad day. I was taken out of action early on with a blow to the neck. My troops held position at the top of a hill. They managed to dismount a few knights, but some of the knights swarmed around them. It was a sad, sad, day. Although we did win.

It is[/i] impossible for a Nord infantryman to kill a knight with that much ease, even if you outnumber the knight by 3 to 1...

Fixed.
Untrue, Nordic Huskarls have better stats than Swadian Knights. In single combat, it goes either way - Knights have great armor, Huskarls are stronger.