Lets have an actual, civil, class balance discussion.

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Imo it should not be possible to swing with pole arms when on horse (like in warband) they should just make all polearms be used one handed when on a horse like in warband (Since one is holding the reins to control the horse) that way people can stab with lances and such but not swing in long arcs.

I also think that speed bonus is too high, and general damage of spears is too low.

Also in multiplayer all classes should have equal athletics skill. (And maybe even weapon skill) This will make it easier for new players to not die again and again since they most likely will be forced to play the peasant class. Yea and all peasant classes should probably default to a shield equipped and cost zero gold.

I dont think you quite grasp the gamemode. You want people to spawn an infinite amount of times???

 

[부부를 넘어서 가자]

Just a quick reminder: if you're smart you can spawn as heavy cav twice (in the FIRST round) on khuzait. ?

 

[DeLaitre]

However the game ends up being balanced, I think it's important that each faction still ends up being distinct. It would suck if they were all kind of clones of each other.

 

[RCC_God]

However the game ends up being balanced, I think it's important that each faction still ends up being distinct. It would suck if they were all kind of clones of each other.

I think warband had really distinct class identies

 

[Alyss]

However the game ends up being balanced, I think it's important that each faction still ends up being distinct. It would suck if they were all kind of clones of each other.

The only two facs that have no identity atm are battania and sturgia. I feel like the only difference between those facs is their color.

 

[DeLaitre]

The only two facs that have no identity atm are battania and sturgia. I feel like the only difference between those facs is their color.

They play pretty differently in the current meta. Battanian cav is garbage while sturgian archers are pretty meh.

 

[RCC_God]

The only two facs that have no identity atm are battania and sturgia. I feel like the only difference between those facs is their color.

I just call them blue barbarians and green barbarians

 

[Alyss]

They play pretty differently in the current meta. Battanian cav is garbage while sturgian archers are pretty meh.

I was mostly talking about the look of the facs.

 

[ltankhsd]

I don't understand the problems people have with Cav as infantry. I mainly play Siege so maybe it is different in other modes but I tend to take a spear always and one of my favorite things to do is take out cav. I hit probably 90% of my thrusts at the very least causing horses to rear. I've even one shot riders with thrusts from 1h swords. The only thing I may agree with is that perhaps horses have too much hp but even then I can live with it how it is.

 

[JakobvanBicke]

Just a quick reminder: if you're smart you can spawn as heavy cav twice (in the FIRST round) on khuzait. ?

did I miss something? Lancer got 180 gold cost. With 300 gold at the start of round 1 it's kinda hard to spawn twice as a lancer, aint it?

 

[부부를 넘어서 가자]

did I miss something? Lancer got 180 gold cost. With 300 gold at the start of round 1 it's kinda hard to spawn twice as a lancer, aint it?

you spawn as inf and trade gear with cav first life. then spawn normal cav after you died

 

[Nikolai Ludovik]

Speaking of classes, can you people please explain to me how is it balanced that an unit of archers that have a chainmail, a shield, and a sword can 1v1 my armored infantry in melee?. (As an example i clearly remember: Imperial Legionary vs Khuzait top tier archers)

I have noticed there are plenty of situations where I just can't seem to defeat top tier archers that are geared. Not to mention the monumental amount of damage they deal and even with a shield wall formation I still bleed units.

Also, speaking of infantry, I remember using every infantry unit of Battania against the Imperial Legionaries and I couldn't defeat a single unit in combat. Took maces, all that stuff, I don't know...

Any tips and tricks? Me and my friends can't wrap around on how to combat in this game in some situations. It just makes no sense and it's not intuitive.

 

[JakobvanBicke]

you spawn as inf and trade gear with cav first life. then spawn normal cav after you died

Your teammate will, however, then spawn as Infantry twice. So there's no real difference (only if 1 of you is a god in Cav and the other one a god in Inf). Also it'll cost you some seconds (between 10 and 20). That is time you don't spend fighting / capturing flags. Don't think that's a problem tbf

Speaking of classes, can you people please explain to me how is it balanced that an unit of archers that have a chainmail, a shield, and a sword can 1v1 my armored infantry in melee?. (As an example i clearly remember: Imperial Legionary vs Khuzait top tier archers)

I have noticed there are plenty of situations where I just can't seem to defeat top tier archers that are geared. Not to mention the monumental amount of damage they deal and even with a shield wall formation I still bleed units.

Also, speaking of infantry, I remember using every infantry unit of Battania against the Imperial Legionaries and I couldn't defeat a single unit in combat. Took maces, all that stuff, I don't know...

Any tips and tricks? Me and my friends can't wrap around on how to combat in this game in some situations. It just makes no sense and it's not intuitive.

Well... I get that complaint quite often. I don't get it though. Shieldwall towards the archers, then go into line or light formation and charge them. You outnumber the enemy and therefore win the melee. If you keep your guys in shieldwall whilst charging you'll get **** on (as AI plays very defensive when in shieldwall). Same applies on how to deal with Cav charges. If you got your guys in shieldwall, square, or circle, they'll play defensive. I deal with cav charges by having my guys in square and then set them to charge when the cav is about to hit me. That way they actually try to kill the enemy and don't only hold their position.

 

[부부를 넘어서 가자]

Your teammate will, however, then spawn as Infantry twice. So there's no real difference (only if 1 of you is a god in Cav and the other one a god in Inf). Also it'll cost you some seconds (between 10 and 20). That is time you don't spend fighting / capturing flags. Don't think that's a problem tbf

Yes of course, this uses 1 inf and 1 cav player. You can have heavy horse with proper gear twice in the first round instead of only one time. If you don't do this you'll either have to switch the cav (the player that played inf before) player or play another class. Works on Aserai too.

 

[Nikolai Ludovik]

Your teammate will, however, then spawn as Infantry twice. So there's no real difference (only if 1 of you is a god in Cav and the other one a god in Inf). Also it'll cost you some seconds (between 10 and 20). That is time you don't spend fighting / capturing flags. Don't think that's a problem tbf


Well... I get that complaint quite often. I don't get it though. Shieldwall towards the archers, then go into line or light formation and charge them. You outnumber the enemy and therefore win the melee. If you keep your guys in shieldwall whilst charging you'll get **** on (as AI plays very defensive when in shieldwall). Same applies on how to deal with Cav charges. If you got your guys in shieldwall, square, or circle, they'll play defensive. I deal with cav charges by having my guys in square and then set them to charge when the cav is about to hit me. That way they actually try to kill the enemy and don't only hold their position.

so there is more micromanaging to be done... hmm

 

[JakobvanBicke]

Yes of course, this uses 1 inf and 1 cav player. You can have heavy horse with proper gear twice in the first round instead of only one time. If you don't do this you'll either have to switch the cav (the player that played inf before) player or play another class. Works on Aserai too.

Well you can have heavy horse and proper gear 6 times the first round if your team spams heavy cav. I legit don't get what your problem is. If they swap equipment and have 1 dude go glass cannon cav and the other one heavy tank inf, so be it. Just stab the horse in the front once and then kill the dude who's on the horse. Or throw a pila / axe in his face. There's so many ways to deal with cav.

so there is more micromanaging to be done... hmm

yeah there is... that's what splits the good from the average and bad players


But a whole different point. I think that currently the balance is kinda ok. Largest problems for me (I'm mainly a skirmish player) are glaives and menavlions (on horseback). They deal too much dmg and are too fast. Even if you hit someone with the stick instead of the blade you'll deal a huge amount of cut-dmg. Reduce dmg if hit by the stick and make it blunt. Also reduce the speed you swing those things at (they're huge, so swinging them shouldn't be as fast as using a shortsword)

 

[부부를 넘어서 가자]

Well you can have heavy horse and proper gear 6 times the first round if your team spams heavy cav. I legit don't get what your problem is. If they swap equipment and have 1 dude go glass cannon cav and the other one heavy tank inf, so be it. Just stab the horse in the front once and then kill the dude who's on the horse. Or throw a pila / axe in his face. There's so many ways to deal with cav.

Not talking about public play where it doesn't matter what you do or what classes you take. This is more about a proper 6v6 environment against another stack that knows what they're doing. Also the cav is not 'glass canon' - he has 32 armour. A lancer with armour perk has 39 so you get one extra heavy cav life in the first round already (with 7 less armour on cav but 7 more armour on infantry). If you don't do this you're forced to go spear infantry or pleb archer on respawn since you don't have the money for another cav.
As you said you lose a little bit of time in the start of the round but this doesn't matter too much.
This can (and will; if unpatched) be completly abused for alot of factions since the units don't have properly set attribute points and can use every weapon (or in this case horse).

 

[RCC_God]

Even in public play heavy archer is laughably better than infantry. You get a bow like a laser pointer (I’m the worst 4K hour archer you’ll ever meet in warband) and anyone can land insane shots. You get heavy armor and a 2h that can kill most infantry classes in 2 swings. Balance is awful right now

 

[Draco Wrath]

Fighting the Empire and all they use is improved armor legionaries and improved armor palatine guard. After that you have no recourse. If you are playing as Battania against a decent Empire team in Captain mode there is literally a 0% chance of victory.

EDIT: Battania has no counter for heavy armor. The savages get hammers that can help but they will get mowed down by palatine anyway so they are almost useless against Empire.

 

[[BoA] Kristine]

Fighting the Empire and all they use is improved armor legionaries and improved armor palatine guard. After that you have no recourse. If you are playing as Battania against a decent Empire team in Captain mode there is literally a 0% chance of victory.

EDIT: Battania has no counter for heavy armor. The savages get hammers that can help but they will get mowed down by palatine anyway so they are almost useless against Empire.

Clan warrior on battania gets a highland mace which is great at penetrating armored opponents, arguably battania has the best anti inf cav. They have super agile horses that turns quickly and has a good max speed and that quick powerful long spear that's great at getting picks from your infantry fighting enemy inf, I would also like to mention that you can go barding on your horse and knock em' down and let archers and inf do there work.

Yes I do agree empire is better than battania however you can make it more favorable for battania using simple strats and tactics.