Lets Discuss: The Apparent Issues with NW

[TheBoberton]

Artillery in a released game can't be as broken and weird as it was in MM, I think everyone is glad it is actually a proper aiming system now, though your right it makes aiming of a cannon easier, that is why we added more random to the cannonballs, if you have any realistic ideas how to balance artillery I'm open minded, but overall I don't think their really overpowered?

I'll jump in here for just this:

An actual artillery piece has something known as an 'elevating screw', which needs to be turned in order to properly sight the gun in for range, and if you want to aim the gun to the right or left.. just grab the end of the carriage and man-handle it into position.

Here is a good example of that. Granted, it's a Napoleon 12-pounder, but the same system would be in use with the 9-pounders of the early 1800s.

 

[Vincenzo]

Which is totally not workable in a game.

 

[TheBoberton]

Which is totally not workable in a game.

I would argue otherwise. I would suggest a system where, instead of taking control of the gun itself, you take control of specific axis of the weapons movement. (For example, said elevation screw controlling up-down movement.) Nothing complicated needs to go into it, other than controlling one axis at a time.

 

[SomeRandomTiger]

Hmmm... Controlling one axis at a time certainly seems more historically accurate and less "gamey".

I second that!

 

[5arge]

I hate when games are gamey. 

 

[Colnel. William Tavington]

Gameplay > Realism.

 

[SeanBeansShako]

Gameplay > Realism.

This forever.

Wait until SDK is out or made your own damn mod in Warband.

 

[SomeRandomTiger]

its not exactly making the game super realistic. Just a simple change which would make the artillery more authentic...

 

[TheBoberton]

its not exactly making the game super realistic. Just a simple change which would make the artillery more authentic...

It's not even a more authentic change. It's something that will make artillery require more skill, and experience. ('Did I get the elevation right, now that I'm turning the gun, or will I have to readjust?')

If we really wanted authentic, I'd have mentioned that most artillery work required having a knowledge of the proper angles involved, as well as windage. (lol)

 

[5arge]

If we really wanted authentic, I'd have mentioned that most artillery work required having a knowledge of the proper angles involved, as well as windage. (lol)

The same goes for firing a smoothbore musket. So now all aiming in NW needs to be tweaked?

 

[SomeRandomTiger]

But with a smoothbore musket in your hand to can aim in both directions very easily... (obviously)

However with a cannon you can move the carridge (horizontal movement) or you can adjust the elevating screw (vertical movement).

 

[Commander Millander]

Yeah **** that idea

 

[DanyEle]

Wise words man

 

[JohanBorg163]

In my opinion, MM melee was alot more intense. It was really skill based and was really fast. In this game the melee is really bad.

The accuracy dosent bother me really, everything is fine except for the melee. I don't mind the cannons neither.

 

[Munro]

I lost you around:

"firearms are more accurate"
They are not.

we did not change any weapon accuracy or unit accuracy between MM or NW, so there cannot be any difirence at all... We also tested the old engine just now (before DLC release) and it had the exact same shooting error.

Musket + infantry unit shoot error in radians: 0.035000
Rifle + riflemen unit shoot error in radians: 0.019800

Testing on old engine gave exact same values.


Your arguments about melee make no sence at all to me?..

"because the melee system is not nearly as fast, smooth, or effective as MM."

Speed of weapons has not changed, how can it be slower? What is not smooth how what where?... A new upper attack is added which should make it more effective? :p ...


Spinning was just silly, I'm glad we reduced it, though people can still do it..


Artillery in a released game can't be as broken and weird as it was in MM, I think everyone is glad it is actually a proper aiming system now, though your right it makes aiming of a cannon easier, that is why we added more random to the cannonballs, if you have any realistic ideas how to balance artillery I'm open minded, but overall I don't think their really overpowered?


I just spend reading a whole rant about absolutely nothing constructive and it all seems to live between your ears.... (more accurate muskets?? wut.)

Well, I am glad you have countered my arguments Vincenzo, but I don't think that is what the concept of this rant was about. I did already state that I have no insight into any of the system values, so sure, it may be my imagination when it comes to those points, but like I stated, something clearly isn't working here. For some reason, public multiplayer is not as fun as it used to be. There was a poll thread awhile back asking how long people would play NW each day. I think the majority said anywhere from <30 Minutes to 1-2 Hours. MM? People would play that all god damn day, and well into the night.

My argument is not on the specific values of the system, since I have no real information about it, it is more about why the game turned out like it did, and how we can make it more appealing to play. Besides, I put "Lets Discuss" in the title for a reason, because I want people to talk about the real issues and what should actually be fixed.

So, yes, I appreciate your criticism of my rant, but that isn't what the purpose of this thread is for. You can say my points are wrong, but I would suggest that instead of stopping there, you should provide some insight on how the system works so that me and other players can correctly gain an understanding of the sort, and then continue to read into and find out as to why the game is in its current state.

 

[Commander Millander]

I miss cannons not being fun too use and melee involving spinning like a ballerina.

But on a serous note I do miss jump stabs. They were pretty fun to watch

 

[TheBoberton]

I miss cannons not being fun too use and melee involving spinning like a ballerina.

Cannons were very fun to use back in MM. I prefer missing most of my shots, due to the fact that I spend roughly 5% of my time playing artillery. (Practice does make perfect, you know. Munro, Joshly, and Attila are some great examples of this.)

Also, I would appreciate it if you actually considered what effects my idea would have on the way artillery is employed, and judged it then. Artillery would no longer kill anything that exposes itself from behind a hill, and would actually require a small amount of skill to use.

My little rant to Millander (The rest of you can ignore this part)

隐藏

Ok Millander. I'm done with this. You're being an arrogant snot to everyone around you. This has been said by a few people in the community now, and it's my turn;

You need to calm the **** down, and learn some respect for those around you, before they all hate you. If you'd take a moment to look at what you say on a regular basis, you'd realize that all you are is a great haughty git. You are, in fact, just like the rest of us, and need to learn that fact.

I can speak as an authority on this, because I was just the same as you, back when my tags read 'Marins_Lt_Thomas'. I had to learn humility the hard way, with events in real life, and I would advise you to learn from my (And many others') mistakes on the matter.

(Note to the admins; I am willing to take any punishment that may be deemed fit for this miniature rant, and the language used within it.)

 

[Hekko]

My argument is not on the specific values of the system, since I have no real information about it, it is more about why the game turned out like it did, and how we can make it more appealing to play. Besides, I put "Lets Discuss" in the title for a reason, because I want people to talk about the real issues and what should actually be fixed.

The problem is that you cannot address, or even properly discuss the problems without understanding the underlying. And in this case if one assumes that the underlying is the shooting when it's the same that worked very well in MM you will just not get at a proper solution for the issue at hand because you're dealing with something detached from the issue.

I see alot of these false causality relationships in your initial post, to there point where it the diminshes the value of the post. Shooting on the charge does not imply that one shuns melee, infact, assuming rationallity it is the mark of someone with a disposition towards melee.

Also, even the assumption that less prevalent shooting leads to more interesting melee is wrong. If you visit any groupfighting server you will find that the issues are more easy to observe due to the 100% melee nature of the servers, and it also shows how the more random nature of outcomes affects melee in negative way, especially on the top level of play. The lack of a populated duel server could also be said to be an effect of the bad melee.

Your point about spinning is spot on though.

 

[BobNLarry]

I lost you around:

"firearms are more accurate"
They are not.

we did not change any weapon accuracy or unit accuracy between MM or NW, so there cannot be any difirence at all... We also tested the old engine just now (before DLC release) and it had the exact same shooting error.

Musket + infantry unit shoot error in radians: 0.035000
Rifle + riflemen unit shoot error in radians: 0.019800

Testing on old engine gave exact same values.


Your arguments about melee make no sence at all to me?..

"because the melee system is not nearly as fast, smooth, or effective as MM."

Speed of weapons has not changed, how can it be slower? What is not smooth how what where?... A new upper attack is added which should make it more effective? :p ...


Spinning was just silly, I'm glad we reduced it, though people can still do it..


Artillery in a released game can't be as broken and weird as it was in MM, I think everyone is glad it is actually a proper aiming system now, though your right it makes aiming of a cannon easier, that is why we added more random to the cannonballs, if you have any realistic ideas how to balance artillery I'm open minded, but overall I don't think their really overpowered?


I just spend reading a whole rant about absolutely nothing constructive and it all seems to live between your ears.... (more accurate muskets?? wut.)

Well, I am glad you have countered my arguments Vincenzo, but I don't think that is what the concept of this rant was about. I did already state that I have no insight into any of the system values, so sure, it may be my imagination when it comes to those points, but like I stated, something clearly isn't working here. For some reason, public multiplayer is not as fun as it used to be. There was a poll thread awhile back asking how long people would play NW each day. I think the majority said anywhere from <30 Minutes to 1-2 Hours. MM? People would play that all god damn day, and well into the night.

My argument is not on the specific values of the system, since I have no real information about it, it is more about why the game turned out like it did, and how we can make it more appealing to play. Besides, I put "Lets Discuss" in the title for a reason, because I want people to talk about the real issues and what should actually be fixed.

So, yes, I appreciate your criticism of my rant, but that isn't what the purpose of this thread is for. You can say my points are wrong, but I would suggest that instead of stopping there, you should provide some insight on how the system works so that me and other players can correctly gain an understanding of the sort, and then continue to read into and find out as to why the game is in its current state.

Well I would think probably because the up attack made the bayonet overpowered, completely unbalancing the entire system. And with thousands of new players coming in, complete noobs mind you, of course stuff is going to change, the entire mentality of the community changed.

 

[romandude]

im just gonna say the truth from my heart

I MISS MY MM