Lets Discus the New Ironman feature. Can of worms incoming!

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Although in general I like to keep multiple saves I have been playing on iron to test it out. I will say, in general I like the idea of just 1 save and not having to ruminate over "could I have done that better" "What if I...." which I am prone to do, although I highly recommend if anyone is learning the game to do so and if you have a hard battle, play it many times and you'll learn a lot. Now before I start complaining, I admit I don't have to use ironman mode, I know, I get no new content from doing so, no banana stickers, no achievements, yes from, a certain point of view all criticism and concerns are rainbow bright'd away by "nobody is making you play on ironman??". I'll complain anyways. :devilish:

Playing on Ironman brings to the surface many festering grievances I have with the game.

1 The AI is prone to massive **** ups and dum behavior. TW somehow has actually mad it worse in some cases over the last year (see HA thread(s) ). Now, normally in about 1/10 battles if my units just say "don't feel like shooting today" and get all shot up with thier pants down, I just re-load the game and probably in won't happen again for another 10 battles or more. But on ironman I gotta just eat a big old :poop: sandwich every time the AI derps out! Good thing we can use gear to power level up troops now, we're gonna need it if we're stuck with the derpy choices the AI makes. I'd rather the troops just do their basic roles consistently and for HA with ammo to NEVER charge into melee!

2 The horrendously obnoxious marriage dialogue "pseudo check"... it's not a true check as it can be brute forced and re-seeded and such... I hate it. BUT on ironman you can't (easily) brute force it or re-seed it, you get one shot "Oh boy which 80% choice is the right one? Sometimes it's none of them Oh boy!"
I did get married to the 3rd person I tried. But I have nothing but disdain for this dialogue system and I think it and it's brother and sisters in vassal recruitment and quest options have no place in the game. I don't want to see a % chance in this game. I want to do things and for things to happen. If you want to lock an option behind a skill level or other condition, go ahead, that's fine, that's what games usually would do for this.

3 Ironman saves take a loooooooong time. I posted comparison videos in the 1.6 patch thread, but it's about 4x as long or more then a normal save. Now, you can turn auto save down to every hour, that helps, but is it really even an ironman mode if you aren't saved after every action and you can just exit the game anyways? Sure I wouldn't play it if I had to have a long long save every 5 feet, but still. Then there's also this long pause after some battles and think it's also saving then too. I'm not sure if it's just big battles or lord battles or what but it's very noticeable sometimes. It could be something else as I haven't actually tried to investigate if it made a new save at this time.

4 Ironman..... more like just Inconvenientman. You can just close the game start it back up if you really want a do over. So it's not really different, aside from inconvenience, then just playing on normal saves and "not" re-loading when you whoopsie poopsie.

5 Ironman's arch enemy, Doctor Savius Corruptus! It hasn't happened to me yet, but I'm very weary of getting too attached to my ironman games during beta! I read someone on reddit lost thier ironman save. I'd guess you can manually copy a back up save, like in warband, but then is it really ironman if you're making back up saves everyday?

Anyways what do you think?
 
Will some achievements only work with Iron man mode? I'm curious because otherwise its a completely optional feature you can ignore. You can just reload as needed and quit the game when you feel it has you beat.
 
Ironman? more like ironbaby, I really wanted a mode that removed your ''chosen one'' status

1. Nobles don't even want to speak with you, until you reach a certain renown
2. want to enter a tournament? that's cute. gtfo
3. the market is going through a depression, and selling prices for equipment are reduced drastically
4. if you get captured by a lord, and you are irrelevant, that's an easy execution
5. got captured and lord hates your guts, executed
6. Oi! you got a permit to use my blacksmith equipment? pay up
7. Craft a 10k javelin? instant loss with jumpscare and CTD, save corrupted.
 
Ironman? more like ironbaby, I really wanted a mode that removed your ''chosen one'' status

1. Nobles don't even want to speak with you, until you reach a certain renown
2. want to enter a tournament? that's cute. gtfo
3. the market is going through a depression, and selling prices for equipment are reduced drastically
4. if you get captured by a lord, and you are irrelevant, that's an easy execution
5. got captured and lord hates your guts, executed
6. Oi! you got a permit to use my blacksmith equipment? pay up
7. Craft a 10k javelin? instant loss with jumpscare and CTD, save corrupted.
+1
 
I actually succeeded with my first marriage attempt for once. Join the Sturgians so I can suffer, Raganvad bites it on our first battle together. Looking forward to my first victory with 3+ allied lord deaths on this save. I agree with your complaints. Now that I think about it, I never really savescummed in Warband but I've done it a ton here.
 
Although in general I like to keep multiple saves I have been playing on iron to test it out. I will say, in general I like the idea of just 1 save and not having to ruminate over "could I have done that better" "What if I...." which I am prone to do, although I highly recommend if anyone is learning the game to do so and if you have a hard battle, play it many times and you'll learn a lot. Now before I start complaining, I admit I don't have to use ironman mode, I know, I get no new content from doing so, no banana stickers, no achievements, yes from, a certain point of view all criticism and concerns are rainbow bright'd away by "nobody is making you play on ironman??". I'll complain anyways. :devilish:

Playing on Ironman brings to the surface many festering grievances I have with the game.

1 The AI is prone to massive **** ups and dum behavior. TW somehow has actually mad it worse in some cases over the last year (see HA thread(s) ). Now, normally in about 1/10 battles if my units just say "don't feel like shooting today" and get all shot up with thier pants down, I just re-load the game and probably in won't happen again for another 10 battles or more. But on ironman I gotta just eat a big old :poop: sandwich every time the AI derps out! Good thing we can use gear to power level up troops now, we're gonna need it if we're stuck with the derpy choices the AI makes. I'd rather the troops just do their basic roles consistently and for HA with ammo to NEVER charge into melee!

2 The horrendously obnoxious marriage dialogue "pseudo check"... it's not a true check as it can be brute forced and re-seeded and such... I hate it. BUT on ironman you can't (easily) brute force it or re-seed it, you get one shot "Oh boy which 80% choice is the right one? Sometimes it's none of them Oh boy!"
I did get married to the 3rd person I tried. But I have nothing but disdain for this dialogue system and I think it and it's brother and sisters in vassal recruitment and quest options have no place in the game. I don't want to see a % chance in this game. I want to do things and for things to happen. If you want to lock an option behind a skill level or other condition, go ahead, that's fine, that's what games usually would do for this.

3 Ironman saves take a loooooooong time. I posted comparison videos in the 1.6 patch thread, but it's about 4x as long or more then a normal save. Now, you can turn auto save down to every hour, that helps, but is it really even an ironman mode if you aren't saved after every action and you can just exit the game anyways? Sure I wouldn't play it if I had to have a long long save every 5 feet, but still. Then there's also this long pause after some battles and think it's also saving then too. I'm not sure if it's just big battles or lord battles or what but it's very noticeable sometimes. It could be something else as I haven't actually tried to investigate if it made a new save at this time.

4 Ironman..... more like just Inconvenientman. You can just close the game start it back up if you really want a do over. So it's not really different, aside from inconvenience, then just playing on normal saves and "not" re-loading when you whoopsie poopsie.

5 Ironman's arch enemy, Doctor Savius Corruptus! It hasn't happened to me yet, but I'm very weary of getting too attached to my ironman games during beta! I read someone on reddit lost thier ironman save. I'd guess you can manually copy a back up save, like in warband, but then is it really ironman if you're making back up saves everyday?

Anyways what do you think?

I'm enjoying my current ironman playthrough.


As for the dialog choices... I guess I got lucky. Married Abagai, had three kids, then she died. Tried to marry Yessum, but the RNG said no, so married Sechen, and a kid is on the way.


Also... noticed one of my wool workshops had dropped to 5 denar income in Ortongard... went to investgate. They had a loyalty problem/food problem, looked about to revolt...

...so I hung out in the area for a sesson until they revolted, dropped my mercenary contract with Khuzaits, quickly attacked the first rebel party I saw, and laid siege to the city just before the Khuzait army could get there.


Now I have a Khuzait-culture city as my capital and three villages.


Not even 10 years into the ironman campaign. So far so good.
 
Ironman? more like ironbaby, I really wanted a mode that removed your ''chosen one'' status

1. Nobles don't even want to speak with you, until you reach a certain renown
2. want to enter a tournament? that's cute. gtfo
3. the market is going through a depression, and selling prices for equipment are reduced drastically
4. if you get captured by a lord, and you are irrelevant, that's an easy execution
5. got captured and lord hates your guts, executed
6. Oi! you got a permit to use my blacksmith equipment? pay up
7. Craft a 10k javelin? instant loss with jumpscare and CTD, save corrupted.
These should all be default features to be fair, didn't Warband require 150 renown just to become a merc?
 
Ironman? more like ironbaby, I really wanted a mode that removed your ''chosen one'' status

1. Nobles don't even want to speak with you, until you reach a certain renown
2. want to enter a tournament? that's cute. gtfo
3. the market is going through a depression, and selling prices for equipment are reduced drastically
4. if you get captured by a lord, and you are irrelevant, that's an easy execution
5. got captured and lord hates your guts, executed
6. Oi! you got a permit to use my blacksmith equipment? pay up
7. Craft a 10k javelin? instant loss with jumpscare and CTD, save corrupted.
giphy.gif

The concept of the Ironman/hardcore mode is nothing new, and here it is sold to us with coloured lights and sound of fanfare in the same way that the Sandbox mode was sold to us :iamamoron: .

All kidding aside, this list still may be extensible long of what you'd expect from a true hardcore mode adding more restriction in a challenge way.
 
I think iron man mode is the perfect way to find out all the frustrating parts of the game that you would otherwise be more forgiving about. See points 1 and 2 of the OP. But I will avoid it for now. Save scumming helps me to keep the frustration in check and the enjoyment alive.
1 The AI is prone to massive **** ups and dum behavior. TW somehow has actually mad it worse in some cases over the last year (see HA thread(s) ). Now, normally in about 1/10 battles if my units just say "don't feel like shooting today" and get all shot up with thier pants down, I just re-load the game and probably in won't happen again for another 10 battles or more. But on ironman I gotta just eat a big old :poop: sandwich every time the AI derps out! Good thing we can use gear to power level up troops now, we're gonna need it if we're stuck with the derpy choices the AI makes. I'd rather the troops just do their basic roles consistently and for HA with ammo to NEVER charge into melee!

2 The horrendously obnoxious marriage dialogue "pseudo check"... it's not a true check as it can be brute forced and re-seeded and such... I hate it. BUT on ironman you can't (easily) brute force it or re-seed it, you get one shot "Oh boy which 80% choice is the right one? Sometimes it's none of them Oh boy!"
I did get married to the 3rd person I tried. But I have nothing but disdain for this dialogue system and I think it and it's brother and sisters in vassal recruitment and quest options have no place in the game. I don't want to see a % chance in this game. I want to do things and for things to happen. If you want to lock an option behind a skill level or other condition, go ahead, that's fine, that's what games usually would do for this.
 
I will probably use ironman mode once I can play this game and not have to do a reload when things happen that are BS. Granted, the fact that you can force-exit the application and go back does alleviate that issue, as it does for pretty much every ironman game mode ever, depending on how aggressive they are with autosaves.

I do like the thought that every choice is final, I think it will make things like kingdom decisions a little more interesting because you can't just try it, reload if it didn't work. Courting will definitely become more of a chore though.

One thing that worries me about the mode is how long it takes for children to come of age, if your character dies in battle from a stray arrow and the game just suddenly ends because your spawn is only 3 years old, it would be pretty anti-climactic. Maybe I'll do one with death disabled.
 
They still haven't added your character getting killed in battle. I'm not sure if they're going to either. Yeah this is one more point to the "Ironbaby" complaint.
Wow I had no idea that death didn't apply to the player. There's no point in turning it on then... it gave me a healthy fear of lances, I guess I'll go back to fearlessly eating them in the face.
 
Ironman? more like ironbaby, I really wanted a mode that removed your ''chosen one'' status

1. Nobles don't even want to speak with you, until you reach a certain renown
2. want to enter a tournament? that's cute. gtfo
3. the market is going through a depression, and selling prices for equipment are reduced drastically
4. if you get captured by a lord, and you are irrelevant, that's an easy execution
5. got captured and lord hates your guts, executed
6. Oi! you got a permit to use my blacksmith equipment? pay up
7. Craft a 10k javelin? instant loss with jumpscare and CTD, save corrupted.
also 8. Main character death chance from regular battles.

I'm fine with Ironman in terms of 1 save. Life isn't fair and if my troops decide to spawn to heaven and all fall and die at the beginning of the battle I'll take the hit. (shouldn't happen anymore, so if it happens that means I really deserve it).
 
Reporting back after trying out ironman mode.

I haven't done the "quit application and re-load", this seems like most other ironman modes where it is just the player opting into having the game restrict saves for them. Yes, it's still on the honor system.

I am enjoying it, it makes me more cautious and the early game is a lot more involved. I've actually used the "try to get away" a few times, whereas before I would only do that if I didn't have a save nearby.

It's a little feature to the game, I dont think that "ironman" mode is supposed to be a total rework of systems. It isn't that way in any other game that uses it.
 
Ironman? more like ironbaby, I really wanted a mode that removed your ''chosen one'' status

1. Nobles don't even want to speak with you, until you reach a certain renown
2. want to enter a tournament? that's cute. gtfo
3. the market is going through a depression, and selling prices for equipment are reduced drastically
4. if you get captured by a lord, and you are irrelevant, that's an easy execution
5. got captured and lord hates your guts, executed
6. Oi! you got a permit to use my blacksmith equipment? pay up
7. Craft a 10k javelin? instant loss with jumpscare and CTD, save corrupted.
+1
 
that's why i save scum. and use cheat. the game bugs out too much for me to not do it.
like when in a siege and a single enemy is stuck in a wall, i just use the cheat to kill him and boom, no need to reload.
 
Ironman? more like ironbaby, I really wanted a mode that removed your ''chosen one'' status

1. Nobles don't even want to speak with you, until you reach a certain renown
2. want to enter a tournament? that's cute. gtfo
3. the market is going through a depression, and selling prices for equipment are reduced drastically
4. if you get captured by a lord, and you are irrelevant, that's an easy execution
5. got captured and lord hates your guts, executed
6. Oi! you got a permit to use my blacksmith equipment? pay up
7. Craft a 10k javelin? instant loss with jumpscare and CTD, save corrupted.
I nominally agree but I think that would be a different gamemode, as ironman is just referring to the fact that you cant save scum. This reminds me a lot of nova aetas in difficulty tho, for example there the player would have to bow to lords etc. It could be done and it think many would like this but it would just need to be its own category.
 
Reporting back after trying out ironman mode.

I haven't done the "quit application and re-load", this seems like most other ironman modes where it is just the player opting into having the game restrict saves for them. Yes, it's still on the honor system.

I am enjoying it, it makes me more cautious and the early game is a lot more involved. I've actually used the "try to get away" a few times, whereas before I would only do that if I didn't have a save nearby.

It's a little feature to the game, I dont think that "ironman" mode is supposed to be a total rework of systems. It isn't that way in any other game that uses it.
yeah, I think it's just to give some incentive for the player to play in a more realistic manner (which is far more enjoyable imo). I'm surprised there is even a need for this feature honestly, but it seems that many players do be save scumming a lot. To me it really feels like cheating, so I pretty much never do it. But I do understand those who do it if the game bugs out of course.

I also feel like using the "Auto-allocate" perks for clan members option. It feels more realistic if you don't have control over the perks they get so that they're a bit more random. But last time I used this option I remember that I could still choose the perks for companions for a little while after they leveled up. I wish the companions would just choose their own perks, and their own attributes and focus points depending on their inclinations, and the player shouldn't be able to do that for them (when choosing this option only, of course). So this option needs improvements.
 
I nominally agree but I think that would be a different gamemode, as ironman is just referring to the fact that you cant save scum. This reminds me a lot of nova aetas in difficulty tho, for example there the player would have to bow to lords etc. It could be done and it think many would like this but it would just need to be its own category.
true, and having the option to disable save scumming definitely doesn't hurt, haven't tried nova aetas though, might give it a go
 
I wish the companions would just choose their own perks, and their own attributes and focus points depending on their inclinations, and the player shouldn't be able to do that for them (when choosing this option only, of course). So this option needs improvements.
I'd be happy to take what I get and not manually min/max companions if there were a minimum standard template ensuring companions could at least level their chosen profession, this should be the dev's end goal I think. In my current game a "Willowbark" wanderer spawned with 0 focus and 1 Intellect, she's never going to be useful without heavy player intervention and characters like this are often barely able to level at all. This is worse in the case of smithing as you then have to turn someone else into a smith if you ever want Thamaske weapons.
 
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