Let us join minor factions

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How to fix the "minor clans being the same as the players starting clan" problem:

1: Create a separate kingdom category called "minor factions"
2: Give each lord in a minor faction their own clan
3: Let the player join an existing minor faction, or create his own minor faction with unique troops
 
It looks like a bad idea. You either get exactly the same gameplay as joining a kingdom or lack of gameplay because the devs need to do a lot of work for special minor faction gameplay.
Where's the fun in this? Creating custom troops? That's not related to minor factions at all and could be a separate feature available to all.
 

Calabanar

Veteran
It looks like a bad idea. You either get exactly the same gameplay as joining a kingdom or lack of gameplay because the devs need to do a lot of work for special minor faction gameplay.
Where's the fun in this? Creating custom troops? That's not related to minor factions at all and could be a separate feature available to all.
Frankly, I see it as a simple challenging option. A middle ground between starting a kingdom by ourselves or joining one. Granted, I expected them to fill a similar role as "claimants" in Warband.

It's only wish-thinking at this point, though. I'd be surprised if they did anything to change (improve) Minor Factions and turn them into something more interesting than... uncontrollable unit pools.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I don't really see how joining a minor faction would work... you would still have to be your own clan. So would it just work like any other kingdom? Would be quite boring. If they got the opportunity to become kingdoms by taking ground... maybe - but I don't think it is very necessary right now.

I'm fine with their current implementation as mercenaries with one caveat - we desperately need a way to reliably recruit minor faction troops. Either through minor faction notables or through some interaction with the minor faction itself. They have made another 10+ unit trees in game and then basically prevented the player from using them (outside of a few prisoners).
 

Calabanar

Veteran
I don't really see how joining a minor faction would work... you would still have to be your own clan. So would it just work like any other kingdom? Would be quite boring. If they got the opportunity to become kingdoms by taking ground... maybe - but I don't think it is very necessary right now.

I'm fine with their current implementation as mercenaries with one caveat - we desperately need a way to reliably recruit minor faction troops. Either through minor faction notables or through some interaction with the minor faction itself. They have made another 10+ unit trees in game and then basically prevented the player from using them (outside of a few prisoners).
Most of the functionnalities that would make a Minor Faction playthrough truly interesting are absent from Bannerlord: no right to rule, no influence on other factions, no real diplomatic depth...

Playing as a minor faction would be boring because playing as a major faction is boring too. They both rely on the same repetitive, one-dimensional gameplay loop: fight.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Most of the functionnalities that would make a Minor Faction playthrough truly interesting are absent from Bannerlord: no right to rule, no influence on other factions, no real diplomatic depth...

Playing as a minor faction would be boring because playing as a major faction is boring too. They both rely on the same repetitive, one-dimensional gameplay loop: fight.
Right to rule was barely a mechanic; and has largely been replaced by clan tier which achieves the same purpose (A checkpoint before starting a kingdom).

RtR - Softcap on kingdom creation (as making a kingdom too early would cause non-stop wars). Raised sharply by a few game actions.

Clan Tier - A hardcap on kingdom creation. Slowly raised by pretty much all game actions.

The only difference between these two is the soft/hard degree of the cap and the fact that clan tier has other mechanics built in (like companion slots). They serve the same purpose - to extend the midgame.

And as far as warband goes - there was no diplomacy outside of peace/war (the occasional flavour event). I don't disagree with your statement per say... but worth mentioning that Warband has the exact same issue.
 
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Calabanar

Veteran
Right to rule was barely a mechanic; and has largely been replaced by clan tier which achieves the same purpose (A checkpoint before starting a kingdom).

RtR - Softcap on kingdom creation (as making a kingdom too early would cause non-stop wars). Raised sharply by a few game actions.

Clan Tier - A hardcap on kingdom creation. Slowly raised by pretty much all game actions.

The only difference between these two is the soft/hard degree of the cap and the fact that clan tier has other mechanics built in (like companion slots). They serve the same purpose - to extend the midgame.

And as far as warband goes - there was no diplomacy outside of peace/war (the occasional flavour event). I don't disagree with your statement per say... but worth mentioning that Warband has the exact same issue.
I mentionned those mechanics as elements that should have improved from Warband.

Right to rule was simple enough, and though it was minimal, it worked: you needed to have gathered support before having a shot at creating a kingdom. The critical difference with Bannerlord is that high right to rule decreased the chances of getting gangbanged by all factions right from the start, which is not a thing in Bannerlord.

I do agree that clan tier could be used in a similar fashion, though the fact it applies to clans and not characters makes things more complicated.

What I don't like about clan tier is that it's necessary for everything, utlimately becoming an almost forgettable aspect of the game, you will increase in clan tier no matter what. On the other hand, you could lose right to rule in Warband, (though admittedly very rarely) which made it more of a dynamic ressource, like influence now.

There were alliances and trade agreements, which is already much more than in Bannerlord. Having the certainty that a neighbouring faction wouldn't attack you (non-agression treaty) and could even support (devensive alliance) you was very useful and good for roleplay. Plus, other factiions did this too, which made world diplomacy already much more nuanced than War/peace.

Anyway, back to the Minor Factions. I referenced Warband Right to Rule because it would make sense for Minor Factions gameplay: gather support around Calradia so that the Minor Faction doesn't get crushed right away being seen as unlegitimate. Clan tier is nice, but it doesn't seem to have that functionnality. So how do you prevent endless war? Appart from fighting the lords over and over, and executing as many ennemies as possible?

You don't. Hence why those elements are very much needed for a Minor Faction playthrough to be interesting, which is also why it will never happen.

...

I'm mad now 😑
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
There were alliances and trade agreements, which is already much more than in Bannerlord. Having the certainty that a neighbouring faction wouldn't attack you (non-agression treaty) and could even support (devensive alliance) you was very useful and good for roleplay. Plus, other factiions did this too, which made world diplomacy already much more nuanced than War/peace.
That was all from the diplomacy mod...

  • Form an alliance, conclude a defensive pact, sign a trade agreement or conclude a non-aggression treaty with another faction.


Not native Warband. Warband was literally war/peace with the occasional event "Border incident X might attack Y".
 

Calabanar

Veteran
That was all from the diplomacy mod...

  • Form an alliance, conclude a defensive pact, sign a trade agreement or conclude a non-aggression treaty with another faction.


Not native Warband.
I consider Diplomacy as part of the Warband experience.

Everyone used it and for good reason.
 

danEN

Knight
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
If they got the opportunity to become kingdoms by taking ground.
Idc about joining them but they really do need to add something like this, either with minor factions or rebellion factions. Would add so much diverseness to every campaign.
 

Grank

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVC
If it means the ability to join another clan, I'll like it. The game forcing you to be a clan leader is pretty limiting, roleplay-wise. It doesn't help that you only answer to the king after you join a kingdom. The high-tier major clans don't really affect you. They don't even summon you to join their armies or anything. It would be interesting to be a lesser member of a clan, and climbing your way up by assassinating the main line of heirs proving your worth. Getting orders from the clan leader like representing the clan in the king's army, or being told to manage one of the clan's castles. Female player character can also marry into one for a shortcut to the political scene.
 

Calabanar

Veteran
Then by that logic bannerlord has all these features too;

No? Diplomacy was used in all mods, and when people wanted a more native game (which I did) Diplomacy was still essential for the game to be enjoyable at its fullest.

Everyone played with diplomacy. I see what you're trying to say but I completely disagree: Warband and Bannerlord don't have the same ambitions. And as a successor to Warband, the diplomacy features should have been a given.
 

echoco

Recruit
I'm for making it possible to join minor factions/clans, if only to make the game more complete or the rules for clans more universal. Currently minor clans has no chance of concouring the map when it would be one hell of an underdog story. Like mentioned above instead of that minor faction being the player it would the the player helping that minor faction climb up to dominate teh world. The game play likely wouldn't change except minor clans had no noble troops.

The case I'm thinking of was in my last game. Lageta had a rebellion and I so wanted to join them and help defend that little town but i couldn't. In RP terms it breaks immersion, why can't the player join what in the game is basically a new kingdom. In terms of gameplay its a restriction for the player to only play the game as an independent clan or join another kingdom.

I can see complications though. Currently minor clans (except rebels) are pretty much mercenaries. Minor clans joining and leaving a kingdom on a whim is going to be an issue when it comes to player hostility. Also the major factions are always at war with some minor factions, these never go away, Unless TW change this I can see player joining a minor clan and eventually have every major factions be hostile to them without a way out, that's a lot of resource vs the player.
 
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