Late game problem (again)

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iRkshz

Regular
I'll say it again - the game currently has a very big late game problem (I'm not the first and I'm not the last to say this).

But in this case, I did a big experiment. I usually finish a game in 16 playable years, but this time I played as much of the game as possible.
And so I made the following conclusions:
1. After I got 10 clans of 5 tier with 3 combat members - the game becomes NOT interesting, because your 10 clans conquer Kalradia by themselves, without you.
2. The only moment that requires your direct participation is when your kingdom begins to dominate and ALL kingdoms simultaneously declare war on you.
3. The situation with total wars is solved simply - by this moment you should have 30k of influence (I had), and you force your clans to make peace with the most powerful kingdoms (in my case, these are Vlandia, Aserai and Khuzait), in order to FAST defeat weaker kingdoms. After that, I only allow the war against one strong kingdom. And so one by one.
4. You have a choice, either entice other nobles or execute them. I had a super economy and almost maximum charisma - that's why I poached ALL lords. I could have executed them, but I'm not a maniac (and coz enemy nobles cannot execute me, so I did it honestly).
5. Therefore, when I got 10 strong clans, at that moment the active games ended altogether. Completely. I have not fought a single battle (besides protecting my clan's fiefs - coz I need economics and influence), I have not captured a single fief. I just ran around the global map, killed marauders in solo...
...and experimented with bugs and exploits, and I waited for HOW long time my clans to take over the world.
As soon as my clans captured all the fiefs of another kingdom, I made peace with them and lured the nobles to me...
...and kept killing marauders, testing bugs and exploits and studying what my clans would do.

Without my active participation, it took my clans 5 years to take over the whole world (5 years after my clans conquered Vlandia - this was the biggest problem throughout the game, this is the only kingdom that caused problems and was a threat. Vlandia couldn't kill my army, but they kept giving critical damage to my army as I defended my fiefs - coz crossbowmens+banerknights are terrible, especially when their 2.5-3k army - it took a long time to recover the troops after each battle, but I took care of this in advance and I had large garrisons).
and so, let me summarize:

I still think that:
we need to stop the forge printing money
we need to make a limit on the clan adding
we need to allow enemy nobles to execute the MC if he executes the nobles

the player will always be smarter than the AI, the player will always win the AI, this is a game and it is made so that the player wins, but after the player understands HOW to win (and this is already a late game), it becomes NOT interesting and too EASY to play

so we need an invasion

the invasion can be in the main game or in the DLC, it doesn't matter - the main thing is that this invasion happens
because with the invasion you CANNOT make peace, you CANNOT lure the nobles (that's how I see it) - and this will be the final boss, a good end of the game, a good victory... if the player can :mrgreen:

P.S. anyway it was a good gaming experience, anyway this game will give the players a lot of fun, which is good (y)
 

e222143

Sergeant at Arms
2. The only moment that requires your direct participation is when your kingdom begins to dominate and ALL kingdoms simultaneously declare war on you.
Maybe this can be further improved in order to challenge the domination of the player. It could be solved with an alliance system, but we learned that it will not come (correct me if I am wrong). Thus, they can make it harder for making peace if an enemy is too powerful.
You said that you solved this problem by making peace with the stronger one, and ı think by making it harder for the stronger ones to make peace with you can solve some piece of the problem.
There could be maybe an option to offer field or gold to another kingdom in exchange for participating in a war.
we need to make a limit on the clan adding
this could be linked with your skill and character. For example, you need to have a certain skill level in leadership to have 5 clans or something else. Furthermore, honor and cruelty can give bonuses or penalties in controlling fields or clans, etc. In conclusion, I agree with you.
we need to allow enemy nobles to execute the MC if he executes the nobles
nice one, but need to be determined carefully. The chances should be higher in Ironman mod and lower in easier difficulties.
the invasion can be in the main game or in the DLC, it doesn't matter - the main thing is that this invasion happens
because with the invasion you CANNOT make peace, you CANNOT lure the nobles (that's how I see it) - and this will be the final boss, a good end of the game, a good victory... if the player can :mrgreen:
sounds like good DLC content. However, for the vanilla game, what ı said above could be more suitable in my view.

BTW, thank you for all your effort, it is really appreciated. I hope you enjoy your life good person. :smile:
 

BigFat

Regular
I don't disagree that late game definitely has issues for conquest. I think things like civil wars could help break up the monotony. My personal solution for how things are currently is just not to play with conquest in mind. I'll do gimmick builds, play a racist character who wants to wipe out one of the factions, be a mercenary and swap to whatever the weakest faction is, etc etc. It's not a solution to the issues you brought up, but this late in development I'm not confident they're going to add anything significant to address them.
 

Mailord

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I'll say it again - the game currently has a very big late game problem (I'm not the first and I'm not the last to say this).

But in this case, I did a big experiment. I usually finish a game in 16 playable years, but this time I played as much of the game as possible.
And so I made the following conclusions:
1. After I got 10 clans of 5 tier with 3 combat members - the game becomes NOT interesting, because your 10 clans conquer Kalradia by themselves, without you.
2. The only moment that requires your direct participation is when your kingdom begins to dominate and ALL kingdoms simultaneously declare war on you.
3. The situation with total wars is solved simply - by this moment you should have 30k of influence (I had), and you force your clans to make peace with the most powerful kingdoms (in my case, these are Vlandia, Aserai and Khuzait), in order to FAST defeat weaker kingdoms. After that, I only allow the war against one strong kingdom. And so one by one.
4. You have a choice, either entice other nobles or execute them. I had a super economy and almost maximum charisma - that's why I poached ALL lords. I could have executed them, but I'm not a maniac (and coz enemy nobles cannot execute me, so I did it honestly).
5. Therefore, when I got 10 strong clans, at that moment the active games ended altogether. Completely. I have not fought a single battle (besides protecting my clan's fiefs - coz I need economics and influence), I have not captured a single fief. I just ran around the global map, killed marauders in solo...
...and experimented with bugs and exploits, and I waited for HOW long time my clans to take over the world.
As soon as my clans captured all the fiefs of another kingdom, I made peace with them and lured the nobles to me...
...and kept killing marauders, testing bugs and exploits and studying what my clans would do.

Without my active participation, it took my clans 5 years to take over the whole world (5 years after my clans conquered Vlandia - this was the biggest problem throughout the game, this is the only kingdom that caused problems and was a threat. Vlandia couldn't kill my army, but they kept giving critical damage to my army as I defended my fiefs - coz crossbowmens+banerknights are terrible, especially when their 2.5-3k army - it took a long time to recover the troops after each battle, but I took care of this in advance and I had large garrisons).
and so, let me summarize:

I still think that:
we need to stop the forge printing money
we need to make a limit on the clan adding
we need to allow enemy nobles to execute the MC if he executes the nobles

the player will always be smarter than the AI, the player will always win the AI, this is a game and it is made so that the player wins, but after the player understands HOW to win (and this is already a late game), it becomes NOT interesting and too EASY to play

so we need an invasion

the invasion can be in the main game or in the DLC, it doesn't matter - the main thing is that this invasion happens
because with the invasion you CANNOT make peace, you CANNOT lure the nobles (that's how I see it) - and this will be the final boss, a good end of the game, a good victory... if the player can :mrgreen:

P.S. anyway it was a good gaming experience, anyway this game will give the players a lot of fun, which is good (y)
this is why we need dead kingdoms to resurrect, or add treason so your nobles try to kill you or take half your empire or something like that, the game would run forever
 
What's the purpose of drawing out the game on purpose? Endless grinding? Maxing your character?
If there's a late-game challenge, it needs to have novel and interesting gameplay that's unavailable in earlier stages, not more of the same but in XXL size.
 

Mailord

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
What's the purpose of drawing out the game on purpose? Endless grinding? Maxing your character?
If there's a late-game challenge, it needs to have novel and interesting gameplay that's unavailable in earlier stages, not more of the same but in XXL size.
role sake.

i dont know about you but i play this like i was role playing, i have kids my main dies my kids get my empire then my kids die some may become traitors and so on...

know what would be even cooler? to have succession lines for fiefs.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
What's the purpose of drawing out the game on purpose? Endless grinding? Maxing your character?
If there's a late-game challenge, it needs to have novel and interesting gameplay that's unavailable in earlier stages, not more of the same but in XXL size.

Vader I know you took over lead for Pendor at some point -that game had great pacing and felt like something was waiting for you at the end -tho i never finished it.
 
Vader I know you took over lead for Pendor at some point -that game had great pacing and felt like something was waiting for you at the end -tho i never finished it.
Well, at least it had stateed end goals and OP guys to kill. As much as I was PoP fan, I would want to see something more interesting in the end game, a new challenge.
role sake.

i dont know about you but i play this like i was role playing, i have kids my main dies my kids get my empire then my kids die some may become traitors and so on...

know what would be even cooler? to have succession lines for fiefs.
That checks out. Though you probably need to fast forward while doing nothing to see generations change. And there's not much support for roleplay in the game, so you must have a lot of imagination.
 

Mailord

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Well, at least it had stateed end goals and OP guys to kill. As much as I was PoP fan, I would want to see something more interesting in the end game, a new challenge.

That checks out. Though you probably need to fast forward while doing nothing to see generations change. And there's not much support for roleplay in the game, so you must have a lot of imagination.
when im doing noyhing i roam the map seeking tourneys and trading
 
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