SP - Battles & Sieges Late Game Fix : Not what people think

[thomas13]

The reason people complain about late game isn't because of lack of content. It's a difficulty scaling issue. Early to mid-game is very fun because it's challenging. You as the player starts out basically at zero and you have to establish yourself in order to compete with the AI computer players but the AI computer players are already established. The issue comes in when the player becomes too strong (if he develops his characters skills/attributes properly) and surpasses the AI computer players and the AI doesn't scale with the player from mid-game to late game. Ways to fix this:

1) Give computer AI nobles access to the medical skill but not enough access that they can attain level 275 HP bonus. This will increase survivability for computer vs computer battles so more troops attain higher tier levels.

2) Mid to late game computer AI armies should be fielding more and more veteran higher tier troops. Give computer nobles the ability to convert battle loot (armor/weapons) into troop xp from the Leadership skill.

Creating a kingdom and dominating all of Calradia should be more challenging than it is currently. Then when you do it's a more satisfying achievement. In addition it will force the player to have to think more carefully about which attributes and skills to focus on.

 

[Xephaeston]

2) Mid to late game computer AI armies should be fielding more and more veteran higher tier troops.

I agree so much with this. Everytime I'm fighting an other noble, and I have some elite tier troops it's so easy to crush their armies as they only have like mid tier troops and a lot of recruits. Would be nice to have the AI also field elite tier troops to make the battles more challenging.

What I would also like to see is that nobles have bigger parties. I know that they can form armies of course, but it would be cool to have nobles forming parties with say like 150 troops. As in the mid to late game period it's easy to have a 120+ party for the player. And it sucks when you have to counter noble parties with only around 80 soldiers when you have a much larger party and they are also fielding more recruits than mid to elite tier troops.

 

[froggyluv]

Its simple you can copy the format from even the worst movies - there needs to be a feeling of tension, relief , success and achievement. there needs to be a pacing -yes even in sandbox there should be dynamic be it military, political, plot, whatever that has a crescendo.

 

[thomas13]

Its simple you can copy the format from even the worst movies - there needs to be a feeling of tension, relief , success and achievement. there needs to be a pacing -yes even in sandbox there should be dynamic be it military, political, plot, whatever that has a crescendo.

Success is a journey, not a destination.

 

[Totalgarbage]

The 4 main problems with the late game are:

1)Your vassals don't put many units in a newly conquered settlement and don't wait inside the settlement for long, making the settlement very easy to retake by the enemies and then forcing you or your vassals to re-reconquer it, making the process very grindy.

2)Your own vassals being retarded and attempting to declare war on every faction simultaneously. You will eventually not have enough influence to deny their votes and the situation will turn into a full on grind.

3)You can't really finish off factions. Sure they can actually be destroyed if you kill all the lords in every clan but when you're 10-20 years into a game, every clan has like 15 people of age, which makes it a ridiculous grind to kill everyone off.

4)You can't reasonably hire minor factions when you're in early kingdom phase, leaving you only with promoting companions to vassals or being wealthy enough to even attempt to convince a lord to join your faction, and you can only do this a limited amount of times before you go bankrupt. What's worse, since apparently kingdoms can make money out of thin air daily with a low percentage chance and can actually go into negative balance without the minor factions leaving, this makes straggler kingdoms very annoying in being able to form small armies and take newly conquered settlements easily, or at least distracting your armies into coming back to defend/reconquer these newly taken settlements, which makes the game, you guessed it, very grindy.

You may have noticed that I've repeatedly used the word 'grind'. Grind is the bane of the late game more than anything else. In the end, you don't feel satisfied or accomplished, just exhausted and disappointed.

 

[thomas13]

The 4 main problems with the late game are:

1)Your vassals don't put many units in a newly conquered settlement and don't wait inside the settlement for long, making the settlement very easy to retake by the enemies and then forcing you or your vassals to re-reconquer it, making the process very grindy.

2)Your own vassals being retarded and attempting to declare war on every faction simultaneously. You will eventually not have enough influence to deny their votes and the situation will turn into a full on grind.

3)You can't really finish off factions. Sure they can actually be destroyed if you kill all the lords in every clan but when you're 10-20 years into a game, every clan has like 15 people of age, which makes it a ridiculous grind to kill everyone off.

4)You can't reasonably hire minor factions when you're in early kingdom phase, leaving you only with promoting companions to vassals or being wealthy enough to even attempt to convince a lord to join your faction, and you can only do this a limited amount of times before you go bankrupt. What's worse, since apparently kingdoms can make money out of thin air daily with a low percentage chance and can actually go into negative balance without the minor factions leaving, this makes straggler kingdoms very annoying in being able to form small armies and take newly conquered settlements easily, or at least distracting your armies into coming back to defend/reconquer these newly taken settlements, which makes the game, you guessed it, very grindy.

You may have noticed that I've repeatedly used the word 'grind'. Grind is the bane of the late game more than anything else. In the end, you don't feel satisfied or accomplished, just exhausted and disappointed.

1) What's interesting is someone else commented on this post that vassals put too many troops especially high tier troops into newly captured garrisons.

2) This is a double edged sword. I've had playthroughs with Battania as a vassal where nobody declared war on us and we didn't declare war on anyone for 2 years. Life got boring without war. And the AI vassals need war in order for them to gain money and field strong armies. They can't trade or smith like you the player can in order to make money. Let's be honest this game is made for battles. Sure you can trade and buy your way to all the fiefs but at the heart of Bannerlord is battles.

3) You can actually without killing them. You have to grind them down first. Defeat and release vassals first and then take all their fiefs. Focus on one faction at a time even if that means an expensive peace. If you take all their fiefs eventually they will run out of money and will either leave for other factions or fade into oblivion. Then when they're broke and fiefless they will join you easily for not much money. I got one of Kuzaits strongest clans this way for only 2000 denars.

4) You might have started a kingdom too soon. You need a few million first and clans join you easier and for cheaper.

Yes, the game can be grindy. But would you feel better in the end game if it was easier to conquer? I understand wanting more out of late game but at the same time I still enjoyed the journey. The game has its flaws and bug but its still a great game.

 

[thomas13]

Its simple you can copy the format from even the worst movies - there needs to be a feeling of tension, relief , success and achievement. there needs to be a pacing -yes even in sandbox there should be dynamic be it military, political, plot, whatever that has a crescendo.

They should accomplish this by having you get stabbed in the back by one of your vassals after you conquer all of Calradia. After which your kingdom gets split apart and your heir tries to re-unify the new empire. Imagine all the complaints about the game being grindy then...

 

[Totalgarbage]

1) What's interesting is someone else commented on this post that vassals put too many troops especially high tier troops into newly captured garrisons.

2) This is a double edged sword. I've had playthroughs with Battania as a vassal where nobody declared war on us and we didn't declare war on anyone for 2 years. Life got boring without war. And the AI vassals need war in order for them to gain money and field strong armies. They can't trade or smith like you the player can in order to make money. Let's be honest this game is made for battles. Sure you can trade and buy your way to all the fiefs but at the heart of Bannerlord is battles.

3) You can actually without killing them. You have to grind them down first. Defeat and release vassals first and then take all their fiefs. Focus on one faction at a time even if that means an expensive peace. If you take all their fiefs eventually they will run out of money and will either leave for other factions or fade into oblivion. Then when they're broke and fiefless they will join you easily for not much money. I got one of Kuzaits strongest clans this way for only 2000 denars.

4) You might have started a kingdom too soon. You need a few million first and clans join you easier and for cheaper.

Yes, the game can be grindy. But would you feel better in the end game if it was easier to conquer? I understand wanting more out of late game but at the same time I still enjoyed the journey. The game has its flaws and bug but its still a great game.

1) There is a solution while appeasing both sides; making the armies stay a bit longer in conquered settlements.

2) This is not even a problem, it's so much easier to declare war on 1 faction (hell, you can just start raiding one of the other factions' villages even if you're not the ruler and their faction automatically declares war on you, you only lose 300 or so influence for starting a war without a vote).

3) No, you're wrong. I can send you my save file if you want. I have like 5 factions without any fiefs or maybe only 1-2 castles. They still relentlessly declare war on you even if you peaced out with them paying you tribute. They realistically should be bankrupt but they still find the money to hire minor factions and form armies from somewhere. Someone in the forum proved that the game has a low chance of generating something like 200k for the kingdom bank every day by showing the code, but I'm too lazy to search for it, just take my word.

4) I actually had a relatively easy time starting a kingdom. I left Battania when they were at war, while I kept all my fiefs (something like 4 towns and 3 castles i think, I also had like 2.5M saved up) and chose policies that gave influence, loyalty and security immediately as I started my own kingdom. I also promoted companions to lords asap. Getting to this level takes a very long time and trying to start your own faction, only to try to conquer the map afterwards just makes the game needlessly grindy. Starting a kingdom shouldn't be easy, and it isn't. But it should not be so because you can't actually hire minor factions unless you're extremely lucky (AI can hire them telepathically if the merc leader is within a certain range). The game should also have intrigue and personality traits affect decisions such as clan leaders starting votes and voting for policies that materially benefit them (and/or aligned with their traits), they should start votes to annex fiefs from other rival clans within the kingdom or votes to kick rival clans from the kingdom, conspiring to secede from a kingdom together with several clans and finally being able to depose the king.

I think the game is fun and that Bannerlord is a good game, but the late game has many issues, with all the reasons coming together to make the game being grindy in the end. Don't get me wrong, I like the game, I've certainly gotten my money's worth and I don't want to be negative about the game, but to make Bannerlord truly an excellent game, the devs have to do more. They have to first of all implement a landline messenger system for us to hire minor factions from afar and invite enemy/other faction lords to one of our fiefs via a messenger for us to try to convince them to join our faction. They also need to implement proper kingdom destruction and proper AI algorithm for declaring war and peace to decrease the grind. They need to allow the king to claim fiefs without votes for an appropriate relationship and influence cost, so that we (and hopefully the AI) can distribute them more reasonably. They need to give us an option to speed up the day/night cycle to let us play as our children and even as our grandkids. They need to add the diplomacy features I've written above, along with non-aggression pacts, alliances and trade agreements. And finally, they need to implement a better character creation system that lets us choose our social standing, marital status and number of children along with all the options it already provides. I doubt that they will add all of what I've written, if any, but the road to bettering Bannerlord as a game has many bumps on the road.

 

[thomas13]

1) There is a solution while appeasing both sides; making the armies stay a bit longer in conquered settlements.

2) This is not even a problem, it's so much easier to declare war on 1 faction (hell, you can just start raiding one of the other factions' villages even if you're not the ruler and their faction automatically declares war on you, you only lose 300 or so influence for starting a war without a vote).

3) No, you're wrong. I can send you my save file if you want. I have like 5 factions without any fiefs or maybe only 1-2 castles. They still relentlessly declare war on you even if you peaced out with them paying you tribute. They realistically should be bankrupt but they still find the money to hire minor factions and form armies from somewhere. Someone in the forum proved that the game has a low chance of generating something like 200k for the kingdom bank every day by showing the code, but I'm too lazy to search for it, just take my word.

4) I actually had a relatively easy time starting a kingdom. I left Battania when they were at war, while I kept all my fiefs (something like 4 towns and 3 castles i think, I also had like 2.5M saved up) and chose policies that gave influence, loyalty and security immediately as I started my own kingdom. I also promoted companions to lords asap. Getting to this level takes a very long time and trying to start your own faction, only to try to conquer the map afterwards just makes the game needlessly grindy. Starting a kingdom shouldn't be easy, and it isn't. But it should not be so because you can't actually hire minor factions unless you're extremely lucky (AI can hire them telepathically if the merc leader is within a certain range). The game should also have intrigue and personality traits affect decisions such as clan leaders starting votes and voting for policies that materially benefit them (and/or aligned with their traits), they should start votes to annex fiefs from other rival clans within the kingdom or votes to kick rival clans from the kingdom, conspiring to secede from a kingdom together with several clans and finally being able to depose the king.

I think the game is fun and that Bannerlord is a good game, but the late game has many issues, with all the reasons coming coming together to make the game being grindy in the end. Don't get me wrong, I like the game, I've certainly gotten my money's worth and I don't want to be negative about the game, but to make Bannerlord truly an excellent game, the devs have to do more. They have to first of all implement a landline messenger system for us to hire minor factions from afar and invite enemy/other faction lords to one of our fiefs via a messenger for us to try to convince them to join our faction. They also need to implement proper kingdom destruction and proper AI algorithm for declaring war and peace to decrease the grind. They need to allow the king to claim fiefs without votes for an appropriate relationship and influence cost, so that we (and hopefully the AI) can distribute them more reasonably. They need to give us an option to speed up the day/night cycle to let us play as our children and even as our grandkids. They need to add the diplomacy features I've written above, along with non-aggression pacts, alliances and trade agreements. And finally, they need to implement a better character creation system that lets us choose our social standing, marital status and number of children along with all the options it already provides. I doubt that they will add all of what I've written, if any, but the road to bettering Bannerlord as a game has many bumps on the road.

1) That's fair. Lets be honest vassals aren't useful until till you get a critical mass of them building multiple armies. They can be helpful attacking raided villages but best to not put much faith in them.

2,3 &4) That's true. Or you can meet the challenge head on. If your vassals want war deny them. Create your own army with family member parties to save on influence, policies for influence gain, fighting outnumbered but never in an AI army only with it for more influence gain. Charm 50 perk for influence gain from battles. Pick your troops carefully. If multiple factions are declaring war on you make peace and swallow the large tribute and focus on one faction at a time. Get the perks to hold prisoners indefinitely. You need to capture everything in order to put a stranglehold on their finances. Leaving two left won't cut it. Taleworlds math.. In all honesty perks make the grind less grindy. I also wait till I'm clan tier 5 before I start a kingdom. But with perks and battling its not too hard to get by year 88 or 89.

I think your right about things needing to be added and fixed but they will be in time. Mercenaries are pointless to hire. Too expensive and the juice isn't worth the squeeze. But some mechanics of the game I feel are there to annoy us and in a weird way I kind of enjoy that charm. The game is grindy but there are ways to make it easier on yourself. With a solid character build and strategy the beginning grind isn't so bad but fun. I will admit I have yet to fully conquer Calradia. The closest I've come is a few towns remaining and I get too bored to continue and create a new game and see if I can do it faster. In that way I agree with late game feels grindy but in a too easy kind of way. Even Alexander wept for there were no new worlds left to conquer.

 

[Totalgarbage]

2,3 &4) That's true. Or you can meet the challenge head on. If your vassals want war deny them. Create your own army with family member parties to save on influence, policies for influence gain, fighting outnumbered but never in an AI army only with it for more influence gain. Charm 50 perk for influence gain from battles. Pick your troops carefully. If multiple factions are declaring war on you make peace and swallow the large tribute and focus on one faction at a time. Get the perks to hold prisoners indefinitely. You need to capture everything in order to put a stranglehold on their finances. Leaving two left won't cut it. Taleworlds math.. In all honesty perks make the grind less grindy. I also wait till I'm clan tier 5 before I start a kingdom. But with perks and battling its not too hard to get by year 88 or 89.

That is no 'challenge' to beat. You would reasonably walk on the bridge as part of your journey instead of swimming in the river to go across as a challenge, right?. The game does not give you a bridge, instead it forces you to swim in the river, over and over and tells you to enjoy it. This is not a challenge nor an innovation in game design. You can deny your vassals' war votes once, twice, thrice, and then what? You've ran out of influence while your vassals are moronically starting their 4th vote for starting the nth consecutive war. You beat enemy army number 1,2 & 3 and then what, the enemy throws a 4th army at you, if you peace out and get tribute the same faction will declare war after 20 days, if you pay tribute they will declare war on you after 20 days, either your own vassals start a new war vote or an enemy faction will declare war on you. If you take out all their fiefs, all the factions besides the ruler clan, guess what, they declare war on you. This is a never ending cycle. Even if you get the perks necessary to make it impossible for vassals to escape, after 10 years there are simply too many family members of age that can lead parties. In the end, you just fight battles over and over again, winning 1000s of them to only have made relatively small gains due to inherent game mechanics.

The problems with your "solutions" is that they are not new or hard to figure out; almost every one of us have already thought of it and done it many times, and we are complaining about the late game because they are not actual solutions and they don't solve the root issue of the late game: the grinding. The late game is not hard, it's tedious. If you remotely understand the core game mechanics it doesn't provide you with any challenge, just annoyance. They've decreased it a bit by allowing us to recruit lords that is our prisoner, but it's still not a fun and rewarding experience.

I think your right about things needing to be added and fixed but they will be in time. Mercenaries are pointless to hire. Too expensive and the juice isn't worth the squeeze. But some mechanics of the game I feel are there to annoy us and in a weird way I kind of enjoy that charm. The game is grindy but there are ways to make it easier on yourself. With a solid character build and strategy the beginning grind isn't so bad but fun. I will admit I have yet to fully conquer Calradia. The closest I've come is a few towns remaining and I get too bored to continue and create a new game and see if I can do it faster. In that way I agree with late game feels grindy but in a too easy kind of way. Even Alexander wept for there were no new worlds left to conquer.

Even you've found it boring, and yes this is partially caused by the size of the map. We don't have to conquer the map, we set our gameplay goals ourselves. But the game making you sift through so much **** for you to achieve so little of your goals is the problem. This is why we all choose to create a new character rather than continue playing after a certain point, because the game is simply too grindy. (I also want to correct you, when I said hiring mercenaries, I mean hiring minor clans, hiring them would mean that you would have additional parties fighting on the map).

Think of it like you're playing pokemon, you've gotten all the gym badges, but to enter the pokemon league and challenge the elite four & champion, the game requires you to level your pokemon to level 100, only to find out that you can only do so by battling against lvl 40 wild pokemon at the highest. And after all that torture, you find out that the highest level pokemon of the elite four & champion is around 55, and you ohko every pokemon in the league without an issue, becoming the new champion. Late game Bannerlord gives a similar amount of pleasure as my example; after you've reached a certain level in your core skills and assembled a large number of experienced troops, there is no challenge. You can try to make it challenging by imposing them to yourself, but in the end it always ends up being just meaningless battle after meaningless battle only for there to be little to no reward(ing gameplay experience).

 

[thomas13]

That is no 'challenge' to beat. You would reasonably walk on the bridge as part of your journey instead of swimming in the river to go across as a challenge, right?. The game does not give you a bridge, instead it forces you to swim in the river, over and over and tells you to enjoy it. This is not a challenge nor an innovation in game design. You can deny your vassals' war votes once, twice, thrice, and then what? You've ran out of influence while your vassals are moronically starting their 4th vote for starting the nth consecutive war. You beat enemy army number 1,2 & 3 and then what, the enemy throws a 4th army at you, if you peace out and get tribute the same faction will declare war after 20 days, if you pay tribute they will declare war on you after 20 days, either your own vassals start a new war vote or an enemy faction will declare war on you. If you take out all their fiefs, all the factions besides the ruler clan, guess what, they declare war on you. This is a never ending cycle. Even if you get the perks necessary to make it impossible for vassals to escape, after 10 years there are simply too many family members of age that can lead parties. In the end, you just fight battles over and over again, winning 1000s of them to only have made relatively small gains due to inherent game mechanics.

The problems with your "solutions" is that they are not new or hard to figure out; almost every one of us have already thought of it and done it many times, and we are complaining about the late game because they are not actual solutions and they don't solve the root issue of the late game: the grinding. The late game is not hard, it's tedious. If you remotely understand the core game mechanics it doesn't provide you with any challenge, just annoyance. They've decreased it a bit by allowing us to recruit lords that is our prisoner, but it's still not a fun and rewarding experience.


Even you've found it boring, and yes this is partially caused by the size of the map. We don't have to conquer the map, we set our gameplay goals ourselves. But the game making you sift through so much **** for you to achieve so little of your goals is the problem. This is why we all choose to create a new character rather than continue playing after a certain point, because the game is simply too grindy. (I also want to correct you, when I said hiring mercenaries, I mean hiring minor clans, hiring them would mean that you would have additional parties fighting on the map).

Think of it like you're playing pokemon, you've gotten all the gym badges, but to enter the pokemon league and challenge the elite four & champion, the game requires you to level your pokemon to level 100, only to find out that you can only do so by battling against lvl 40 wild pokemon at the highest. And after all that torture, you find out that the highest level pokemon of the elite four & champion is around 55, and you ohko every pokemon in the league without an issue, becoming the new champion. Late game Bannerlord gives a similar amount of pleasure as my example; after you've reached a certain level in your core skills and assembled a large number of experienced troops, there is no challenge. You can try to make it challenging by imposing them to yourself, but in the end it always ends up being just meaningless battle after meaningless battle only for there to be little to no reward(ing gameplay experience).

Which is exactly the point of my original post. The game feels grindy because it isn't challenging. Fighting outnumbered all the time can be fun but the only way to really improve the game is improving AI parity with the player and the AI making smarter decisions. Another way to add something interesting would be to start the game as a vassal as clan tier 2 but you're restricted to only the units of the faction your in.

That is no 'challenge' to beat. You would reasonably walk on the bridge as part of your journey instead of swimming in the river to go across as a challenge, right?. The game does not give you a bridge, instead it forces you to swim in the river, over and over and tells you to enjoy it. This is not a challenge nor an innovation in game design. You can deny your vassals' war votes once, twice, thrice, and then what? You've ran out of influence while your vassals are moronically starting their 4th vote for starting the nth consecutive war. You beat enemy army number 1,2 & 3 and then what, the enemy throws a 4th army at you, if you peace out and get tribute the same faction will declare war after 20 days, if you pay tribute they will declare war on you after 20 days, either your own vassals start a new war vote or an enemy faction will declare war on you. If you take out all their fiefs, all the factions besides the ruler clan, guess what, they declare war on you. This is a never ending cycle. Even if you get the perks necessary to make it impossible for vassals to escape, after 10 years there are simply too many family members of age that can lead parties. In the end, you just fight battles over and over again, winning 1000s of them to only have made relatively small gains due to inherent game mechanics.

If the game isn't challenging it sounds like your having an awful lot of issues dealing with the enemies. I don't have that problem at all in any of my games. I roll the enemy up like a carpet. It sounds like a you problem. I don't use any mods or any exploits. Your suggestions don't address the difficulty problem but only wish to streamline the already easy difficulty.

You know when you hire minor factions you're hiring them to a mercenary contract? Yes indeedy.

 

[Totalgarbage]

Which is exactly the point of my original post. The game feels grindy because it isn't challenging. Fighting outnumbered all the time can be fun but the only way to really improve the game is improving AI parity with the player and the AI making smarter decisions. Another way to add something interesting would be to start the game as a vassal as clan tier 2 but you're restricted to only the units of the faction your in.


If the game isn't challenging it sounds like your having an awful lot of issues dealing with the enemies. I don't have that problem at all in any of my games. I roll the enemy up like a carpet. It sounds like a you problem. I don't use any mods or any exploits. Your suggestions don't address the difficulty problem but only wish to streamline the already easy difficulty.

You know when you hire minor factions you're hiring them to a mercenary contract? Yes indeedy.

I think we're agreeing in general. Yeah, I know my "solutions" don't really add more challenge to the late game, but rather streamlines it. The solution for making the late game and the game in general harder is to make smarter AI, which tbh the devs have been incrementally making the AI smarter and more capable overall.

One thing that I might not have made clear; I don't want a challenge anymore after uniting something like 60-70%, maybe 80% of the map under my faction. I think that this very tippity top of the end game should be the "reward" for the players that they see their faction snowball. This already happens to a limited degree, but due to the many reasons I've stated that make the game grindy, it doesn't feel rewarding. I can quite easily defeat enemies and take settlements, but due to the aforementioned reasons, my faction's snowball has a 2-steps-forward-1-step-back nature.

 

[thomas13]

I think this game is a tough game to balance. If you change one area of the game it can negatively effect other areas. If you streamline this game too much the game will be over too soon. I think we generally agree as well. We all like the game and want to see it improved.

On a side note I'm sure the Romans found conquering and holding onto large swaths of territory grinding as well. So in a way it's realistic.

 

[Totalgarbage]

I think this game is a tough game to balance. If you change one area of the game it can negatively effect other areas. If you streamline this game too much the game will be over too soon. I think we generally agree as well. We all like the game and want to see it improved.

Oh, of course, I completely agree. This and the fact that the game is largely symmetrical in its use of mechanics is a big reason why the devs cannot just add a new feature or tweak some stuff and call it a day.

On a side note I'm sure the Romans found conquering and holding onto large swaths of territory grinding as well. So in a way it's realistic.

I mean, it took the Romans close to a millennium to conquer and subdue an area that Calradia roughly represents. We can do it in 20 years, 10 if we really try to, maybe speedrunners can do it in 5. It's not particularly realistic.

 

[thomas13]

It's a game it's not supposed to fully realistic. The point is finding a balance between realism and fun. I just think that even if they streamline certain features to make it less "grindy" but don't address the issue of difficulty people will still walk away with a feeling of not being satisfied. More people might actually finish games though which might be a victory in and of itself. This game is like dating apps the whole point is to keep the person coming back and creating a new profile and trying again.

 

[Totalgarbage]

It's a game it's not supposed to fully realistic. The point is finding a balance between realism and fun. I just think that even if they streamline certain features to make it less "grindy" but don't address the issue of difficulty people will still walk away with a feeling of not being satisfied. More people might actually finish games though which might be a victory in and of itself. This game is like dating apps the whole point is to keep the person coming back and creating a new profile and trying again.

Sure, but if they give us the option of speeding up time (while decreasing the payments & influence due period at the same rate) the game would both be dynastic and more realistic. Currently it's the game's time mechanics blocking it from becoming realistic and also stopping us from playing as our kids and grandkids.

I don't really understand why you're trying to defend the game's each and every flaw. This is a good game with flaws, even TW admits that the game lacks in certain aspects, I'm trying to provide suggestions for fixing these flaws or making them less of a nuisance to make this into a better game. I don't get why you're trying to cling so hard to a mentality of "it's fine the way it is". Them fixing one issue (the grindiness) doesn't prohibit them from also making the game more difficult. As it stands, the lack of difficulty is an AI issue while the grind is a system and bugs issue, I'm not sure if the same people are responsible for these categories.

 

[thomas13]

Sure, but if they give us the option of speeding up time (while decreasing the payments & influence due period at the same rate) the game would both be dynastic and more realistic. Currently it's the game's time mechanics blocking it from becoming realistic and also stopping us from playing as our kids and grandkids.

I don't really understand why you're trying to defend the game's each and every flaw. This is a good game with flaws, even TW admits that the game lacks in certain aspects, I'm trying to provide suggestions for fixing these flaws or making them less of a nuisance to make this into a better game. I don't get why you're trying to cling so hard to a mentality of "it's fine the way it is". Them fixing one issue (the grindiness) doesn't prohibit them from also making the game more difficult. As it stands, the lack of difficulty is an AI issue while the grind is a system and bugs issue, I'm not sure if the same people are responsible for these categories.

I never had any issues with having enough money or influence when I create a kingdom. But let's say the devs think you're right and they implement fixes for that. It still wont make the game dynastic or more realistic. Why? Because at the core of what's wrong is an economic issue for AI nobles and Calradia in general. Denars are scarce for the AI. They struggle to make enough money to field strong armies. The player has numerous ways of making money that aren't available to the AI. This is where we don't see eye to eye. It's not that I'm defending the issues or bugs to keep the game the way it is. It's that I think there are certain reasons for why things are the way they are and until you get to the root of the issue it won't be fixed properly. Once they make the proper fixes then you can implement some of the things you bring up.

 

[Totalgarbage]

Oh alright, yes what you're saying here makes sense. I agree, they also need to fix the AI economy first. Currently, the only "fix" they have is the bandaid solution of a daily chance of getting 250k.

 

[thomas13]

Oh alright, yes what you're saying here makes sense. I agree, they also need to fix the AI economy first. Currently, the only "fix" they have is the bandaid solution of a daily chance of getting 250k.

The real challenge comes in how to buff the AI's earning potential without buffing the players too much. I've noticed that clan leaders and faction leaders who field strong parties with a decent amount of higher tier troops have one thing in common they all own the lions share of wealthy fiefs in their kingdoms. Plus since this game is all based around fighting battles someone has to lose for someone else to win. If you the player loses a battle it's time consuming to rebuild your army but financially doable because of all the options at your disposel to earn denars. For the AI it takes them a lot longer to rebuild themselves. Buffing their attributes and skills will help but also increasing their earning potential for owning castles. They could also increase village production attached to castles. Adding more looters and bandits for the AI to attack. I've noticed late game there aren't a lot of looters and bandits cause the AI is hungry and desperate to attack them for xp and loot. Basically just giving the AI options for more income.

 

[mangalore]

Imo the late game issue is more a question of intent:
Is the goal to win by conquering the world?
Or is the goal to play your clan?

In CK some people may go for world conquests but the fun is in having your dynasty (=clan) go through time with plenty of **** ups and reversals. You planned to have your great heir gain the HRE? Well, sadly he fell off a horse so now you have to make due with his drooling, humpback brother who shows signs of insanity... where is my cousin and how can I arrange a hunting accident for my own heir?!
Right now there is nothing in the clan development to make it fun, heck I don't make it to my children being of age before I am tired of a campaign. There is simply nothing to play with the clan other than you are in dire need of more companion type characters to fill all the roles you need.

And if the goal is world conquest, then it probably should have an earlier cut off time and last challenge before you win.