Lands changing culture over time?

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Poddicus

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So, what bugs with me Warband a lot of the time is that, let's say I take over Dhirim and its surrounding villages off the Swadians as a vassal under the King Graveth ze gr8.
After even in game years, the culture of recruits or anything doesn't change at all, which bugs me a little bit.
Would any of you like to see the culture/kind of troops and people from these villages castles and cities change slowly over time as they are conquered?


 

Silen

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Yep, this always annoyed the hell outta me in Warband, but I remember reading somewhere that it's confirmed it's gonna be the same as Warband.
 

peenerz

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Im hoping for an "auxiliary" system, where each faction has an unique (but linear) troop tree for each culture. For example, a Battanian village would produce normal batannian recruits when controlled by the Batannians, but would produce "Empire Longbow auxiliary" or something if the Empire takes over that village. These troop trees would be very small and linear compared to the main ones, and would feature soldiers which fit the play style of their respective factions. So that way all the factions still feel different. These soldiers will also be weaker than your main troop tree, as they are auxiliaries, which also encourages recruiting more soldiers from your core regions.

If not, I want at least the soldiers you recruit to wear the same color as your faction. Nothing annoyed me more than having an army of Skittles when the enemy wore uniforms
 

Brave Sir

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I prefer a assimalete button instead of auto change you may want to combine troops since every kingdom's soldiers have good and bad sides
 

hirovard

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I asked about this at pc gamer last year, lust said it would be the same as warband
 

RafaelCruz

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It would be cool if you would not be able to access certain troop-trees by training units from peoples other than your own.

As in, romans would not be able to create cavalry as good as germanic cavalry, that wasn't their culture.

They would hire these troops as auxiliary/mercenary troops, however, when those people were assimilated, they "romanized" and became less good on what gave then that military edge.

So the only way to get "good troops of a certain kind" form a certain people, was through not assimilating then, not influencing their culture but keeping good relations with individual tribes.
 

NoTaxation1776

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RafaelCruz said:
It would be cool if you would not be able to access certain troop-trees by training units from peoples other than your own.

As in, romans would not be able to create cavalry as good as germanic cavalry, that wasn't their culture.

They would hire these troops as auxiliary/mercenary troops, however, when those people were assimilated, they "romanized" and became less good on what gave then that military edge.

So the only way to get "good troops of a certain kind" form a certain people, was through not assimilating then, not influencing their culture but keeping good relations with individual tribes.
Yeah but the whole point of wanting culture in this game is for the role play elements. Even though the game had major flaws at the beginning, I liked Rome II Total War's culture conversion and it improved the game for me. It actually felt like my Spartans had taken over Illyria for a few decades and it showed in the culture.

Plus the lack of barbarians assimilating into Roman culture is one of the main reasons Rome fell. But that's kinda besides the point.
 

Lord Brutus

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The lack of culture change is entirely historically accurate.  China has owned Tibet for over 70 years but do the Tibetans consider themselves Chinese?  No.  Same thing can be said worldwide.  In Spain, Catalans agitate for independence rather than embrace Castilian culture. 
Even in games like EU3 and EU4, cultural assimilation remains a rare event.
 

Silen

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Lord Brutus said:
The lack of culture change is entirely historically accurate.  China has owned Tibet for over 70 years but do the Tibetans consider themselves Chinese?  No.  Same thing can be said worldwide.  In Spain, Catalans agitate for independence rather than embrace Castilian culture. 
Even in games like EU3 and EU4, cultural assimilation remains a rare event.
True, I don't mind the -culture- of the place remaining the same. But when I'm recruiting people for -my- army I want them to wear -my- uniform. What I mean, essentially, is that if I want all my troops to look Rhodok, so wear Rhodok armor, I'd like to be able to do that independently of where from I recruit people. So, in short, if  I was recruiting people from a Sarranid village, those people would still be Sarranid of course, but I'd like to be able to equip them with Rhodok armor and weapons, because my character's a Rhodok and I want all  my men to look the same or generally to have the same style of equipment.

This is what kind of annoyed me pretty much, I hope I didn't explain it too bad.
 

NoTaxation1776

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Lord Brutus said:
The lack of culture change is entirely historically accurate.  China has owned Tibet for over 70 years but do the Tibetans consider themselves Chinese?  No.  Same thing can be said worldwide.  In Spain, Catalans agitate for independence rather than embrace Castilian culture. 
Even in games like EU3 and EU4, cultural assimilation remains a rare event.
Sure, but that still doesn't mean that culture hasn't been converted in the past. The Middle East and North Africa used to be Christian, and Northern Europe Pagan (I know not technically "culture" but still). America is a decent example of culture assimilation. Sure there is diversity, but it should be America first for them.

I just think culture would be a nice mechanic for the game that you can ignore if you want to. Like maybe give a small morale boost when you're in your own territory culturally?
 

kalarhan

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NoTaxation1776 said:
Sure, but that still doesn't mean that culture hasn't been converted in the past. The Middle East and North Africa used to be Christian, and Northern Europe Pagan (I know not technically "culture" but still). America is a decent example of culture assimilation. Sure there is diversity, but it should be America first for them.
yeah, but keep in mind how MB handles timeline. A campaign lasts a couple years, not generations. So they just went with the simplest solution: do nothing

about Bannerlord: this kind of thingy will have several mods soon after release. Assuming they will be easy to install (as the PR talk says it will), then expect to be just a question of looking for a alternative on Workshop (Steam), click a couple buttons, and presto... alternative feature enabled, now play with your own rulesets

TLDR: vanilla will have it own rules. Mods will have alternatives. Pick your own combination.
 

Kortze26

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Gab-AG. said:
Lord Brutus said:
The lack of culture change is entirely historically accurate.  China has owned Tibet for over 70 years but do the Tibetans consider themselves Chinese?  No.  Same thing can be said worldwide.  In Spain, Catalans agitate for independence rather than embrace Castilian culture. 
Even in games like EU3 and EU4, cultural assimilation remains a rare event.
True, I don't mind the -culture- of the place remaining the same. But when I'm recruiting people for -my- army I want them to wear -my- uniform. What I mean, essentially, is that if I want all my troops to look Rhodok, so wear Rhodok armor, I'd like to be able to do that independently of where from I recruit people. So, in short, if  I was recruiting people from a Sarranid village, those people would still be Sarranid of course, but I'd like to be able to equip them with Rhodok armor and weapons, because my character's a Rhodok and I want all  my men to look the same or generally to have the same style of equipment.

This is what kind of annoyed me pretty much, I hope I didn't explain it too bad.
Cultures change with population migration, not with conquest alone.  The underlying logistics behind trying to duplicate a material/look of armor or weapon styles isn't just in matching a visual pattern.  The quality of steel available in one region may make fluted breastplates more feasible than another region where a brigandine coat of carbon steel plates may be more efficient, for example.  If the smith who holds the secret to poly-laminate sword construction doesn't want to leave his home, it's going to be very difficult to match that elsewhere.  As another example of cultural barriers, the Persians tried very hard to duplicate the Greek Hoplite, but failed miserably and resorted to hiring other Helenes to do the job.
 

Brave Sir

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Gab-AG. said:
Lord Brutus said:
The lack of culture change is entirely historically accurate.  China has owned Tibet for over 70 years but do the Tibetans consider themselves Chinese?  No.  Same thing can be said worldwide.  In Spain, Catalans agitate for independence rather than embrace Castilian culture. 
Even in games like EU3 and EU4, cultural assimilation remains a rare event.
True, I don't mind the -culture- of the place remaining the same. But when I'm recruiting people for -my- army I want them to wear -my- uniform. What I mean, essentially, is that if I want all my troops to look Rhodok, so wear Rhodok armor, I'd like to be able to do that independently of where from I recruit people. So, in short, if  I was recruiting people from a Sarranid village, those people would still be Sarranid of course, but I'd like to be able to equip them with Rhodok armor and weapons, because my character's a Rhodok and I want all  my men to look the same or generally to have the same style of equipment.

This is what kind of annoyed me pretty much, I hope I didn't explain it too bad.
this can be solved by a custom troop tree or a assimalete  button I suggested

I always wanted customizing our own troops giving them armor and custom wepons to create our own royal guards or our own Army when we found a kingdom
 

kraggrim

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I was under the impression that during this period soldiers would provide their own gear rather than being outfitted by their lord/nation. Obviously Calradia is fictional so they can do what they want, but still might seem a bit weird.
 
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kraggrim ?️ said:
I was under the impression that during this period soldiers would provide their own gear rather than being outfitted by their lord/nation. Obviously Calradia is fictional so they can do what they want, but still might seem a bit weird.
Kraggrim has a point. An Aserai tribesman even if his clan has been paying tribute to the Empire for years is going to show up with bow,saber, spear and shield when summoned for war  because people back then didn't have standing armies, professional and armed by the state authority.

You can just handwave your Aserai Desert Marksmen as Imperial Auxiliaries. :razz:
 

Egaldor

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Brave Sir said:
I always wanted customizing our own troops giving them armor and custom wepons to create our own royal guards or our own Army when we found a kingdom
You can do this in a mod named prophesy of pendor.
 

Silen

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kraggrim ?️ said:
I was under the impression that during this period soldiers would provide their own gear rather than being outfitted by their lord/nation. Obviously Calradia is fictional so they can do what they want, but still might seem a bit weird.
I suppose this would be true, I'm no historian so I have no clue, however in Calradia we see the same opposite. How come, if they provide their own gear, that for example all Swadian Knights look the same? Of course it's due to game limitations, even though it would've been possible to somewhat randomize equipment, to a certain degree.

However, if you want to look at everything realistically, it doesn't make much sense to me that in Calradia they'd provide their own equipment, seeing all men of one class use exactly the same one, instead it looks more likely that they were provided the same kind of gear in 'bulk' by their Lord or whatever, generally.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that, as you said, Calradia is a fictional word, and considering what I said above it might not be so weird in the end, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.



Kortze26 said:
Cultures change with population migration, not with conquest alone.  The underlying logistics behind trying to duplicate a material/look of armor or weapon styles isn't just in matching a visual pattern.  The quality of steel available in one region may make fluted breastplates more feasible than another region where a brigandine coat of carbon steel plates may be more efficient, for example.  If the smith who holds the secret to poly-laminate sword construction doesn't want to leave his home, it's going to be very difficult to match that elsewhere.  As another example of cultural barriers, the Persians tried very hard to duplicate the Greek Hoplite, but failed miserably and resorted to hiring other Helenes to do the job.
Thanks for the input, I wish to share few points on the matter:

1. I wasn't talking about culture changing. I was talking about changing the equipment of people recruited from conquered, foreign lands. Their culture would still be the same, however if a Lord wanted their equipment to be the same as his native men, I feel safe to assume that he'd have all the power to do that, if he wanted to.
2. It seems that you're taking this a bit too seriously, to me. Mount & Blade is a game, of course, and it has nowhere near that much depth obviously.
3. I believe it is entirely a matter of style. Sure, perhaps the 'quality' of that iron is not the same. If we want to try and find a 'logical' reason for this, then I suppose it would be plausible to assume that such equipment would be provided from the homeland. Realistically, I also imagine that this would be a tad more expensive than producing said equipment on place, but still it would work.

Once again, I think the level of complexity of the factors you displayed in your post doesn't belong to a videogame, where everything is dumbed down and made more simple because of obvious limitations. I hope I managed to explain myself clearly without creating too many misunderstandings or confusion.


Egaldor said:
You can do this in a mod named prophesy of pendor.
Thank you for the valuable information! I played a bit of that mod, but wasn't aware of this. I might go back to it.  :wink:
 

kalarhan

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Gab-AG. said:
I suppose this would be true, I'm no historian so I have no clue, however in Calradia we see the same opposite. How come, if they provide their own gear, that for example all Swadian Knights look the same? Of course it's due to game limitations, even though it would've been possible to somewhat randomize equipment, to a certain degree.
provide your own equipment != have random gear. One way for states to gather coin is to force the soldiers to buy standard gear from them. The soldier still needs to pay for it, and maintain it in good order when not in the field.

it doesn't exclude the case of state being the one responsible for gear. It just don't mean it is the exclusive way.