Lances for lancing(Couching) Spears for stabbing and swords for slicing.

[rokema]

As a cav that uses only swords I am having a very hard time killing people using greatlances and such, sometimes I even have to use my horse as a wall and ride into them so I can get a few swings in.

Greatlances and lances aren't meant for stabbing, they're meant for couching so why don't we give all the cavalry the option to buy war spears? This would make it harder for a cavalry to just stab someone from 50 metres away on horseback but it would allow the option to rapidly stab into someone in close range. A cav with a war spear would still have the advantage but it wouldn't be almost impossible for swordcav to fight them.

EDIT: It's too easy in my opinion to get a lot of kills with the lance, it comes down to who has the longest lance win. Having warspears should give them more timing wise skill and they would have new tacics since war spears and such can stab rapidly.

 

[Seawied86]

war spears? thats a bit much, but lances should couch only, especially the great lance.

Maybe regular spear or something around the same tier

 

[Stabbing Hobo]

Yes! Yes! I've been saying this for some time already, and I do think that horseback swordfighting could use some love.

war spears? thats a bit much, but lances should couch only, especially the great lance.

Maybe regular spear or something around the same tier

Nah, he can't outreach infantry anymore with thrusts and it only has 15 more reach than the normal spear.

 

[Jack_Merchantson]

war spears? thats a bit much, but lances should couch only, especially the great lance.
Maybe regular spear or something around the same tier

War spears are already available to Nord cavalry.  They are exactly nothing like "a bit much" and a lot closer to "not quite enough". 

Regular spears are almost unusably short from horseback when used against footmen. They are pretty decent against sword cavalry, though.

Both have more piercing damage than similar-tier lances...

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The ENTIRE PURPOSE of the lance from horseback was to outreach infantry.  That's why for hundreds of years they kept getting longer (as did infantry spears, to counter the lances). By the 17th century the Winged Hussars were riding around with lances up to six meters long.

Couched technique specifically developed as a way to hold the lance 1-handed at the very limit of its reach.  When they discovered how much more powerful the hit was when used that way (better shock transfer from the horse's speed), they started developing lances that could pretty much only be used that way, hence the collection of innovations that M&B refers to as the Great Lance.  As purpose-built weapons, they could not be comfortably wielded nearer the balance point in the middle, as a long spear can.

Spoiler

WHICH IS REALLY ALL THAT MOST LANCES IN M&B ARE.

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If heavy and normal lances lose the ability to thrust, the Light Lance should retain thrusting ability and would need to be made available to all cavalries.

EDIT: Actually, it might be more interesting if only certain factions had thrustable light lances...

 

[Styo]

You want cav to use spears?

Did you know that a 2 handed bastard sword while thrusting is longer then a spearn in hand on ccav? I bet you didnt... Therefore if this happens, then the game will be broken once again.

 

[rokema]

A spear has a longer range ( Should have a longer range than a sword Etc )

Because really, a lance is impossible to fight as cav with a sword, and hard to fight as infantry since you can't counter-attack, with a war spear cav for instance you could possibly try to get close to the cav and dodge his thrust + slice.

 

[Elthore]

you are incorrect in your assumption that lances are not for stabbing/thrusting. In ancient times, Alexander's Companions as well Persians and Sarmatians used a very long spear (kopis, cavalry sarrissa) to stab the **** outta their foes. This of course if they didnt break it during the charge. One must assume they brought extra, stored in a way similar to how steppe nomads store their bows on the side of their horse, but this however is an assumption. I am sure someone can cite something closer to the timeframe of M&B.

There is one thing that can be different with the usage of shorter spears though, and that is the ability to use them overhand. Dont think this is gonna happen before release however.

 

[darkhorse]

Cav is great as it is. I have no trouble taking out other cav with a sword, the trick is to speed up or slow down right before you meet them so they are caught off guard then swerve away while you slash.

Sure, sometimes it won't work and you will end up a shish-kabob, but if it was too easy it would be unbalanced.

 

[HTAPAWASO]

you are incorrect in your assumption that lances are not for stabbing/thrusting. In ancient times, Alexander's Companions as well Persians and Sarmatians used a very long spear (kopis, cavalry sarrissa) to stab the **** outta their foes. This of course if they didnt break it during the charge. One must assume they brought extra, stored in a way similar to how steppe nomads store their bows on the side of their horse, but this however is an assumption. I am sure someone can cite something closer to the timeframe of M&B.

There is one thing that can be different with the usage of shorter spears though, and that is the ability to use them overhand. Dont think this is gonna happen before release however.

you are incorrect in your assumption that lances are not for stabbing/thrusting. In ancient times, Alexander's Companions as well Persians and Sarmatians used a very long spear

He's saying that spears should be thrustable and lances should not be.


Although in saying that I disagree with the OP.
I find sword to be very effective from horseback, and I think cavalry is, for the first time in the beta, very well balanced.
There were times when couching was useless - cav was underpowered.
There were times when thrusting was useless - cav was underpowered
Now, they have both reached a good degree of usefulness and all is well.

If you can't kill a lancer with a sword, either stop riding straight into them (they can't lance backwards), or get a lance.

 

[Elthore]

exactly 

 

[rokema]

Try killing a lancer with a bit of skill, the second you get behind him he'll just stop, turn and thrust.

 

[CalenLoki]

IMO only great lance should have thrust removed - all other lances are just longer spears. So no-great lances should have thrust, but with grip moved to balance point.

 

[Styo]

Try killing a lancer with a bit of skill, the second you get behind him he'll just stop, turn and thrust.

I kill cav with out any problems...

 

[darkhorse]

The way couching works now is that it is useful only in certain situations and requires the user plan ahead, which is great - making it the only type of lance combat would render them essentially useless. I myself prefer a sword over a lance as well, but I don't want to nerf lances just because they present a challenge to me.

 

[rokema]

The way couching works now is that it is useful only in certain situations and requires the user plan ahead, which is great - making it the only type of lance combat would render them essentially useless. I myself prefer a sword over a lance as well, but I don't want to nerf lances just because they present a challenge to me.

But they're a tad overpowered IMO

 

[RalliX]

I think great lances should be couch only, and the others couchable, thrustable, and throwable.
The great/jousting lance is a purpose built weapon, but regular lances are useful tools with varying abilities.

Also in my opinion, both spears and lances should be this useful. After all, a lance is just a slightly longer spear isn't it? As for cutting polearms and pikes(except the Khergit hafted blades), they should remain exclusively infantry weapons.

 

[Hamel]

OP, you're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.

I just love the balance between swords and lances at the moment. They are both very useful, and I tend to use them both equally. The only lance I have a problem with is the great lance.

I think great lances should be couch only, and the others couchable, thrustable, and throwable.
The great/jousting lance is a purpose built weapon, but regular lances are useful tools with varying abilities.

Also in my opinion, both spears and lances should be this useful. After all, a lance is just a slightly longer spear isn't it? As for cutting polearms and pikes(except the Khergit hafted blades), they should remain exclusively infantry weapons.

This! +1

 

[Jack_Merchantson]

Try killing a lancer with a bit of skill, the second you get behind him he'll just stop, turn and thrust.

There's this thing you can do, in the game, called "blocking".  Set aside his thrust, stop next to him and carve him apart.

Fighting against a spear or lance on horseback, using a 1-handed weapon, should be difficult.  Lances were historically acknowledged as superior to swords from horseback in every instance when they clashed en masse (which didn't happen very often, I think at the battle of Waterloo...?). 

Now, something should probably be done to balance lances and swords a bit based on the primary disadvantage of lances not being present in the game (i.e. they tend to escape the hand a lot more often than swords).  Fortunately, there's now this extreme body-turn-rate limitation thing on horseback that limits lancers a lot more than swordsmen...

 

[CtrlAltDe1337]

As a cav that uses only swords I am having a very hard time killing people using greatlances and such,

Well that is your problem, mate.  All 3 forms of cavalry combat have their place now, and just spamming one won't allow you to dominate everyone.  The weapons are pretty balanced atm.  The sword swinging animation from horseback could be made a little better, since it misses infantry a lot atm, but otherwise its good.

 

[darkhorse]

The way couching works now is that it is useful only in certain situations and requires the user plan ahead, which is great - making it the only type of lance combat would render them essentially useless. I myself prefer a sword over a lance as well, but I don't want to nerf lances just because they present a challenge to me.

But they're a tad overpowered IMO

Not if you use your head. It's incredibly easy to predict exactly what a lancer will do when you confront him - he is going to charge straight at you and try to directly impale you. It is really his only option if he wants to kill you. As a swordsman you have multiple choices in how to attack or counter-attack, so you essentially decide how the encounter plays out. It will take some practice, but taking down lancers with a sword is certainly not impossible.