Evanovic
Although I've stated my opinions and made my points ample times in this thread already, I feel the need to clear the air and further explain a few things. I need to get a few things off my chest and, if I may, dispel the image of the mean bully who makes personal attacks without reason that I have been portrayed as in this thread.
I know you Evanovic. I knew this thread was coming before it surfaced, and I knew you would be the one to make it. I remember quite well the time when I first encountered and killed you memorably under your current alias. It was around the end of the summer, I encountered you on Official Battle, playing of course as lancer, while you played several sword cavalry varieties and infantry. I killed you several times, to mild complaining, when for a round or two you neglected your usual feeble dodge or attack to counter my couch with a statue-still downblock. You proceeded to light up general chat with how you "blocked my attack" and it didn't work, "wtf". etc..
You didn't know that couches were unblockable.
Now this kind of encounter/reaction speaks volumes to me when evaluating the experience of a warband player. Needless to say it counted a great deal for me when judging your character and opinions on this thread. But I will return to this momentarily. In the meantime please allow me to give a quick background of my history as a player.
I started playing Warband soon after its release, and was an avid fan of Mount and Blade and old development versions before then. The combat system and unique, original dynamics of this series, especially mounted combat, captured much of my imagination and even more of my time, as I'm sure it did many of you. The multiplayer aspect of Warband greatly excited me and I became even more of an enthusiast, taking great pleasure in the opportunity to hone my skills and face the challenges of other players from around the world. I was late to enter the mod playing community of this game. Being somewhat of a purist, I held the opinion that mods could only detract from the glorious game experience, and disdained at titles such as "persistent world", and "crpg". One fateful day I was killed by an admin gun in a server running Vincenzo's Admin Tools, this perplexed and slightly enraged me at the time, arousing my curiosity. Before long I had discovered Mount and Musket and begain to play avidly at the beginning of 2011.
Mount and Musket proved to me to be very different than most other mods. It offered a totally unique departure from the experience of native while still offering a competitive, skill based multiplayer experience. I see the classes and game of MM through the frame of the native experience. After all, the original game module should be the measure when comparing a mod. Coming as a veteran cavalry player and lancer from native, I was actually first attracted to MM because of the increased challenge and therefore fun when playing my preferred class.
I see the classes in MM as essentially divergences from native classes, and therefore the combat balance and game experience as a divergence.
-MM infantry are armed with firearms, something like a crossbow or bow with huge damage, accuracy/trajectory differences, and massively increased reload time. Line infantry are in the same weapon armed with a stabbing weapon very close to an awlpike of native, providing effective melee capabilities with strong anti-cavalry potential. The riflemen of most factions trade the bayonet for the increased range, accuracy and damage of rifled firearms. All classes in this mod lack shields, which has implications for combat overall, making all ranged attacks unblockable and changing the melee combat game. Overall, these infantry have both drawbacks and buffs when compared with their native counterparts of archers and infantry, being more limited in their equipment but being armed with effective melee and ranged attacks, which are even more effective in numbered volleys/reloading shifts.
-MM cavalry come in several varieties. I'll begin with the elephant in the thread: lancers. Lancers and indeed all cavalry are changed comparatively little from native. Lancers are armed with their namesake weapon standardized somewhere between the native light lance and heavy lance, depending on faction. These cavalrymen lose their emblematic shield and carry a curved sword/sabre through from their journey from medieval(native) times. Other cavalry bring to the Napoleonic battlefield the same sabre or similar blade and a shortened musket comparable to its infantry counterpart, or a massive sword with the range of a native two-handed sword and handling of a one-handed sword. The hussar alone bravely charges into the fray carrying only the sabre, the advantages from the speed, proficiency and handling of this class are debatable and based largely on personal preference. Any additional differences of equipment, proficiencies and horses are faction-variable and confer only situational advantages based on playing style and preference of player. (Lancer A prefers the the range of the French lance, while Lancer B prefers the speed of the Russian lance)(Cavalryman A prefers the speed and maneuverability of light horses, while Cavalryman B prefers the health and charging power of heavy horses.) (And everything in between.)
-MM also offers several "curve-ball" units and specialty classes, many with highly valuable battlefield abilities. Artillery offer an unprecedented potential to inflict high destruction at range to distance parts of the battlefield, armed with mostly marginal melee weapons and some degree of anti cavalry potential/LOL factor in the ramrods. Opelcheniye have their ubiquitous random collection of weapons, many of them unique and surprisingly useful. Scattered throughout the ranks are officers and standard-bearers, with an arsenal of swords and pistols, lances and melee weapons adding to battlefield diversity. Generals lead their armies with heavy swords and a health and horse health bonus. Musicians colour the battlefield and inspire/amuse many players, for what they are worth.
The idea that lancers are paramount to an unstoppable or overpowered aspect among their fellow cavalry armed with carbines and heavy swords, let alone such an aspect withing the menagerie of weapons and abilities listed above, with the mass of the common musket(deadly range+effective melee/anti cav) found all over the battlefield, is nothing but a misconception purveyed by the fallacies constantly bombarded at us by anti-lancer whiners who will always find something to complain about.
Every cavalry class and indeed game class will have application and advantages in certain situations. Lancers are strong on flat, fast ground where they can use their range and speed to full effect. Sword cavalry and dragoons gain the upper hand in rougher terrain where movement of cavalry is impaired. Its really not a hard concept to grasp. If you have trouble defeating a certain class, change your tactics and force the enemy to fight on ground favourable to your class.
This brings me back to you, Evanovic. I hope after hearing where I come from and my take on the mod, as well as our previous encounters, the remaining followers of this thread, if there are any, will better understand my lack of regard for many of your opinions and hopefully gain a bit of insight into the mechanics of combat and balance. If lancers aren't considered overpowered in native, which I am fairly confident most reasonable and experienced native players would agree they are not, then they certainly are not overpowered in this mod with its departures from native combat, as listed above. I believe that you and your fellows would only move on to the next most challenging game aspect to yourself, even if lancers were totally removed.
KillerMongoose said:
Vincenzo said on the suggestion thread a while back that he was going to do something about them, he made it clear that he also considered lancers to be over powered and that they would be changed but he didn't say how :/
When did this happen? I recall him admonishing both several posters for whining and arguing about lancers in that thread, and myself for arguing and stating that he was tired of me talking about how my class is "perfect as is". However, the only thing close to what you are stating that I can recall is the claim of that "Mikkel the Great" individual, who I personally would consider less than reliable. Let's not let rumours get the better of us now, and I'l leave that at that.
In the end, any changes are of course completely up to the devs, and I am sure there will be many changes and additions to the mod in the next patch. I am also confident in the developers knowing what to remove/change for the betterment of the mod, and what would detract from the mod and serve only to cater to the vocal, whiny minority. They made this mod what it is now, and I have total faith that whatever they produce next will be a fun and engaging product, whatever changes they make. After all, we have waited long enough for it.
In any case, I believe any minor impact that this thread may have possibly had on the opinions of the devs and therefore outcome of the mod would have been realized in the beginning of the thread, when all parties involved had amply stated their opinions and before the thread became horribly TL;DR. For my would-be opponents in this debate: I really wouldn't be proud of the length of discussion contained herein. A massive amount of the posts, I am ashamed to say my own included, are regurgitated opinions and re-hashed facts. You seem overly proud of the responses you have elicited, most of which seem to be Kator half-trolling you for the LOLZ, and you pat yourself on the back because
someone is perpetuating your discussion.
Trust me, it doesn't mean you are winning.
