Lack of diplomacy makes the game dead after mid-game

[Sylvanaz]

Just as I have stated in the topic, I think that apart of the economy getting completely wrecked in later parts of the game ( let's say day 700+) another issue is the complete lack of any diplomatic actions that could be undertaken by player and/or kingdoms. I have seen this being already pointed out, but I really do feel like this should have way more attention.

Also, I am very happy with TW's development of the game, I would simply want them to notice these issues.

I am currently on a day 950+ in my campaign and the game is not fun anymore without diplomatic actions.

I am playing as Sturgia. At one point we've conquered half of the map by sword or by persuading enemy lords to join our kingdom (that option is just broken and should be removed or completely changed but this is just my opinion)
From some point in the game we're just in a state of a constant war. Most of the lords in the game are running with armies of recruits and it is all about who gets a bigger group of lords. Peace is being made only to make one of the factions declare another way in a matter of a few days/weeks. The world looks very much like a deathmatch right now. There should be some cooldown for the declaration of war, some kind of armistice and other diplomatic possibilities with kingdom-wide effects like non-aggression pact, alliance, perhaps some trading rights, rights of passage and such.

Right now cities and castles go from one hands to another, because militia and garrison cannot replenish.

When I, as a player go with one of the parties they always win, however there's always some army on the other side of the kingdom that is getting wrecked and it is really frustrating because a player cannot be everywhere. Maybe it is a part of the issue with Sturgia being underpowered, I don't know. I thought that at this point, where our kingdom's army has been twice as big than anyone else's, there would be no way for Sturgia to lose this campaign, but apparently these troops are worthless, as all of this advantage has been wiped out in a few weeks of war. Now we are at war with everyone.

Also, I would like to add my +1 to everyone complaining about lords escaping from prison way too easily. It makes the game really tedious and fights insignificant. Why would you even want to destroy someone's army when he will be back on the battlefield with his army of recruits in a matter of days? I wonder why is it so, when other parts of the series had it done so well? There's no feeling of winning the war, just rush to get some castles or town and hope for the king to end the war in a favorable moment. I am sure I could write about many more disheartening aspects of the game in it's current stage, but I dont want to make you bored with my wall of text.
Instead, I invite you all to a discussion and to share your opinions.

Edit: I took a couple of screenshots to picture what I am talking about.


First screenshot is from day 761.
At that point armies were:
Vlandia: 4776
Aserai: 4073
S. Empire: 3325
Khuzait: 3665
Battania: 4600
Sturgia: 7786

Second screenshot is day 996:
Armies are:
Vlandia: 4638
Aserai: 3987
S. Empire: 4746
Khuzait: 4625
Battania: 4368
Sturgia: 3765

Campaign has been started in beta 1.1.0 and is now on the most current beta branch 1.2.0

 

[NeilSeven]

I completely agree with you (except the part about persuading enemy lords)
Lack of diplomacy is ruining end game and makes the game pretty meaningless at this point.
I believe that since its in an EA state , Taleworlds will surely implement many diplomatic aspects but i dont really expect huge advancements.
At the otherside, modding community will work miracles and if i can make a prediction , in less than 1 month we will have some great mods toward this direction.

Regarding your suggestions , i countersign them:
-Trading rights trading agreements is a must!
-Alliances
-Peace treaties that really last so economies can recover

One of my favorite games ever is Knights of Honor.
I think that if M&B had the strategy options of KoH and the RPG/3rd Person that Bannerlord currently has, it would have been incredible,

 

[Sylvanaz]

I completely agree with you (except the part about persuading enemy lords)
Lack of diplomacy is ruining end game and makes the game pretty meaningless at this point.
I believe that since its in an EA state , Taleworlds will surely implement many diplomatic aspects but i dont really expect huge advancements.
At the otherside, modding community will work miracles and if i can make a prediction , in less than 1 month we will have some great mods toward this direction.

Regarding your suggestions , i countersign them:
-Trading rights trading agreements is a must!
-Alliances
-Peace treaties that really last so economies can recover

One of my favorite games ever is Knights of Honor.
I think that if M&B had the strategy options of KoH and the RPG/3rd Person that Bannerlord currently has, it would have been incredible,

Thanks for your answer and opinion Yes, KoH is an incredible game and I've seen KoH2 announcement some months ago. Regarding persuading lords, perhaps this will feel better when barter modifiers will get fixed and perhaps they will make all the factors somewhat more clear... For now it seems stuck at certain percentage no matter what and I have had lords change their sides again just a few weeks after I persuaded them to join us. Also, it feels kinda OP for them to defect with all their fiefs.

 

[kampfbock]

Yes, yes and hundred times yes. I have been complaining about the lackluster state of the game for the last weeks now. A huge factor is diplomacy, which i am sure will come, but again i do not expect much. It will probably be the most basic disappointing feature. Like either peace,NAP, truce after peace and alliance over marriage. I do not expect any realistic approach of how a feudal state functioned, rather these kingdoms will probably forever work in a way a modern nation state functions....I would already consider it a miracle if raiding villages or caravans would not immediately lead to all out war between 2 kingdoms....

 

[Miila]

Lords constantly switching factions in record time was/is a huge problem in M&B:Warband. And I'm only on day... like, 400-500 in my campaign and everywhere I go there are lords in factions other than their own. There's one lord that I've seen serving at least three different kingdoms, none of which are the original one he should be part of.

I'm hoping they fix this, or otherwise that there are mods/edits figured out to minimize or disable this. Personally I'd like to see it that NPC lords don't defect from their faction unless it is specifically by direct player influence. But I doubt they'll do that in the base game.

 

[kampfbock]

Lords constantly switching factions in record time was/is a huge problem in M&B:Warband. And I'm only on day... like, 400-500 in my campaign and everywhere I go there are lords in factions other than their own. There's one lord that I've seen serving at least three different kingdoms, none of which are the original one he should be part of.

I would not mind lords switching factions or forming their own, but it has to make sense. It should b based on a mixture of their relations, traits and interests. Relations are already in the game, but feel meaningless. Same with traits.
Interests are not yet in the game or they are so intransparent and badly implemented, that i can not discern any. Anyway for diplomacy to work, i think we not only need mechanics, but a total rework of how the AI operates strategically. The AI needs parameters to make decisions, that feel reasonable and immersive, and thus it would serve as something exploitable for the player strategically, but also fill the need of roleplay.

 

[Miila]

I mean, lords OCCASIONALLY switching factions is fine. But it can easily get excessive, as it does in Warband, and as it seems to be the case again here. One lord defecting to another faction here and there is fine. But I am on day 350 of this campaign and have seen one lord in at least four different factions. And I'm more just having flashbacks to lords in Warband defecting between factions every other day until half the lords in the game are just exiled from the kingdom entirely. Sometimes in mid-late game I would see upwards of 20 lord defect/indiction messages a day.

I just want to see random NPC lord defections be a MUCH less common thing, mostly if not entirely preserving faction integrity in terms of troops and commanders. (I haven't fully tested this but I know lords in Bannerlord have the "I am of this clan, that has served my faction for generations" dialogue, but I think I've seen cases where a defected lord says that about their current faction. Could be wrong though. A little immersion-breaking).

That said, I just hope exiling lords out of the kingdom entirely is not a thing anymore. I don't mind the defections/switching factions as much as I mind the game becoming empty because three quarters of the lords faction bunny hopped their way right out of existence.

 

[kampfbock]

hahahaha, i mean at least in that case teir iloyal behaviour had appropriate consequences. Sadly that consequence did not influence their decision making. That is what i mean when i say the AI needs a complete overhaul and some more parameters for the AI to work with.
As you said, it is neither good roleplay nor is it good strategy, for both consistency is key. For roleplay you need consistency for immersion, to shape characters to spin interesting stories. For strategy it is important so things are planable, if nothing is planable because anything happens seemingly without rhyme or reason, then you have no strategy game.