Kurdistan Workers' Party

[Úlfheðinn]

No, I have, sadly your ideas about the origins of civilization and language are fairly infamous on these boards.

Still, it's just your classic response anytime someone calls you on your BS, you either:
a) change the subject
b) argue that you meant something else or made a "small error and that your translation or information was really correct"
c) inject useless information that isn't an answer into the conversation
d) ignore the post when all else fails.

It reminds me of the time you claimed Scandinavians lived in caves until Odin, who you claim was a Turk, arrived to teach them how to live in wooden houses, when presented with archaeological evidence that didn't fit your claim, you simply ignored it and went forward with your silly ideas. 

 

[ancalimon]

No, I have, sadly your ideas about the origins of civilization and language are fairly infamous on these boards.

Then you can tell that I'm not more nationalist than for example "John Lenon" and my ideas about origin of civilization does not reflect what you really think I think.

As you can see from my post above about population of Kurds in Turkey, I think I have made myself clear that Kurds are increasing in number in Turkey a lot. Now I don't like it when foreign Kurds with low education settle in my country (because it causes crime rates to increase), but it's clear that Turkey is the best country for Kurds to settle in and shows that Turkish army is not systematicaly killing Kurds in Turkey.

I even would daresay and guess that Kurdish population in Turkey increased more than it did in Iraq or Iran for the last 100 years.

 

[Úlfheðinn]

I don't know, I really think you have convinced yourself that you aren't a crazy nationalist because the alternative would hurt you deeply.

To admit that you haven't really found any solid proof, that you don't adhere to or follow any standards of research and to see that we aren't here opposing you because of some "religious" conspiracy would probably bring most of your "reality" crashing down upon you. Which understandably, would be very problematic for you as a person.

Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

 

[ancalimon]

I don't know, I really think you have convinced yourself that you aren't a crazy nationalist because the alternative would hurt you deeply.

To admit that you haven't really found any solid proof, that you don't adhere to or follow any standards of research and to see that we aren't here opposing you because of some "religious" conspiracy would probably bring most of your "reality" crashing down upon you. Which understandably, would be very problematic for you as a person.

Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

I can understand you... Not that I agree with you or the methods you expect and trust.  But really..  All this is irrelevant to what I'm discussing at this topic.

 

[Anthropoid]

 

[Moose!]

Sadly, he is not.

 

[Mage246]

I'd just call him a halfwit, but even that is being generous.

 

[Wellenbrecher]

In its essence, it's about emergence of religion (the one that gives power to the elite and make them able to control and change humans), rise of Eurocentrism and importance of language as whole.

It may have evolved into that after three hundred pages of you writing BS about Turkey teaching people to walk upright, to live outside of caves and how they had this amazing high culture before everyone else was even able to talk, and you being proven wrong and wrong and even more wrong time and time again.
Not to say I agree with the last few bits, not even a little bit in fact, but they're way, way, waaaaay better than your first few tries.

 

[wrc]

Spoiler

From CIA:

between 1982&1990 >  Kurds: 12%
between 1991&1992 >  Kurds: 17%
between 1993&2008 >  Kurds: 20%
between 2009&2013 >  Kurds: 18%

http://www.21yyte.org/tr/arastirma/milli-guvenlik-ve-dis-politika-arastirmalari-merkezi/2013/05/20/7008/kurt-nufusu-demografik-savas-ve-cia

As some others have already pointed out, these numbers mean almost nothing. I believe that increasing number of Kurds in Turkey is mostly influenced by a high birth rate and not with some better life they found, as you are trying to represent. There are plenty of sources to support this, I'm not saying that there have not been refugees from Iraq and Iran to Turkey but bear in mind that significant number of them was scattered over various countries, including countries in Western Europe.   

Turkey has emerged as an economic superpower in Eastern Europe and the Middle East, with increasing influence in regional politics. Promoting itself as a model Muslim democracy, and widely admired by other Middle Eastern nations, the Turks now face a novel problem that western Europe and Japan have long contended with: a falling birth rate.

Since the 1990s, Turkey's fertility rate has steadily declined, due to, among other factors, rising household incomes, expanded access to higher education for women and increased birth control practices.

The fertility level in western Turkey, the most economically advanced part of the country, is now about 1.5 -- roughly the same as in western Europe.

The Kurdish community of Turkey, which represents at least 15 percent of the country's overall population and dominates the south-eastern region) has such a high birth rate, that some observers -- most prominently Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan -- believe Kurds could become a majority in Turkey within another generation.

According to Turkish government statistics, the average Kurdish woman in Turkey gives birth to about four children, more than double the rate for other Turkish mothers.

"Fertility levels of Turks and Kurds are significantly different. At current fertility rates, Turkish-speaking women will give birth to an average of 1.88 children during their reproductive years. The corresponding figure is 4.07 children for Kurdish women. Kurdish women will have almost 2 children more than Turkish women."

http://www.ibtimes.com/turkey-high-kurdish-birth-rate-raises-questions-about-future-705488
http://vvanwilgenburg.blogspot.com/2009/03/stratfor-kurds-no-demographic-challenge.html

Now your numbers make sense.

 

[QuintessentialTurk]

Kurdish problem of Turkey is to a large extent, Ataturk's fault. How?

Ottoman Empire was probably the most heterogeneous, multicultural empire ever. Somehow they managed to govern it for a quite a long time. This heterogeneity proved to be a great weakness and source of discontent during the last 100 years or so of the empire. It was basically hell. Ataturk, after taking the control of the country thought that age of multinational empires was over, nation-state was the way to go. Turks should have built their own nation-state rather than continuing this terrible empire business. And Nation state had to be as much as homogeneous as possible. Completely Sunni-Turkish nation. No place for Greeks, Armenians or Jews unless they assimilate into Turkishness because their difference was a source of problem. This homogeneity would stop the discontent and make the country peaceful.

Lots of Muslims from Balkans and Caucasus migrated to Turkey after the OE and they got easily assimilated. Ataturk should have just let Kurds go independent. Unfortunately he thought that Kurds would be easily assimilated like the migrants. He was also aiming to reconquer the North Iraq to get the oil. But Kurds rebelled and Ataturk used army to crush them. He also could not take North Iraq back. After Ataturk state continued to try to assimilate Kurds by oppressing and crushing them in search of a homogenous nation.

And we came to this day. War between the Kurds and state is now over. Around %40 of Kurds support PKK the rest is extremely conservative Akp supporters. Around %15 of all Kurds want independence. They will probably get autonomy now and maybe become independent in future.

 

[ancalimon]

Around %40 of Kurds support PKK

Half of the Kurds in Turkey are not terrorists. If that were the case, there would have been civil war in Southeastern Turkey. Which would have resulted in half of the Kurdish population killed. Also all those Kurds would have voted for BDP and not AKP.

 

[Mage246]

 

[Mage246]

If you can actually find something, apart from the pin pricks of your pathetic attempts to insult, which demonstrates the above to be false, I'd truly enjoy reading it. If I am wrong, I have no problem acknowledging it, and enjoy such 'conversations' as an opportunity to compare notes, perhaps even learn from others.

... Still waiting...

 

[Anthropoid]

If you can actually find something, apart from the pin pricks of your pathetic attempts to insult, which demonstrates the above to be false, I'd truly enjoy reading it. If I am wrong, I have no problem acknowledging it, and enjoy such 'conversations' as an opportunity to compare notes, perhaps even learn from others.

... Still waiting...

Oh no ****ing way. I can't even remember what we were arguing about. All I can remember is that you called me a Nazi and other bad words and it hurt my feelings very badly. *sob*

 

[Cookie Eating Huskarl]

There there. Though the fact that you're old enough to be a nazi hardly helps.

Spoiler

Sweeping falsehood, I know.

 

[Anthropoid]

There there. Though the fact that you're old enough to be a nazi hardly helps.

Spoiler

Sweeping falsehood, I know.

 

[ancalimon]

I'd just call him a halfwit, but even that is being generous.

I'm really sorry for pointing this out. But this time, it really is a conspiracy.

You don't have to be a genius to see what is happening in Iraq. ISIS (who are clearly Anti-Muslim. Most probably an extension of religion creators and Indo-European language creators I had been talking about. Also the same guys who eradicated Islam through the Omayyads in Middle East back in the day and tried to do to the same in Central Asia all the way to China) is clearly a conspiracy set against Turkey by our prime minister and his collaborators. Kurds will once again start escaping to Turkey when ISIS starts massacring them and we will have no option but to open our borders in order to save the life of Kurds. (Turkmens will most probably stay to defend their lands and get massacred) Of course this will mean more manpower for PKK and an easy way to smuggle more weapons into Turkey. It will take a short while to see the results of all these. Probably a civil war is at our doors.

 

[Evelyn]

This is what Ancalimon actually believes.

 

[Sir Saladin]

Ancalimon would be the only true Muslim on Earth, if he were a religious man.

 

[Anthropoid]

ISIS (who are clearly Anti-Muslim.

What? How can you possibly say that ISIS is "anti-Muslim?" Did you mean "anti-Shia?"

To my naive Judeo-Christian outsider eye, ISIS looks rather devoutly Sunni. Are you claiming that when they engage in the various demonstrative rituals of devotion to Sunni Islam, when they carry out acts of violence in the name of these beliefs, that they are literally acting against Islam or that they are deluded, or what?

Most probably an extension of religion creators and Indo-European language creators I had been talking about. Also the same guys who eradicated Islam through the Omayyads in Middle East back in the day and tried to do to the same in Central Asia all the way to China) is clearly a conspiracy set against Turkey by our prime minister and his collaborators. Kurds will once again start escaping to Turkey when ISIS starts massacring them and we will have no option but to open our borders in order to save the life of Kurds. (Turkmens will most probably stay to defend their lands and get massacred) Of course this will mean more manpower for PKK and an easy way to smuggle more weapons into Turkey. It will take a short while to see the results of all these. Probably a civil war is at our doors.

I agree that a civil war seems like a distinct possibility for Turkey but all this mixing up of medieval and contemporary affairs seems a bit unhinged