Knights -> Huscarl/SShooters -> ????

[Remedius]

Ok this is an effort not to subvert the favourite armies thread and is intended to gather suggestions or experience ( perhaps ) as to what to do when the typical army options are feeling a bit samey.

My Gist is - and largely on the strength of what has been said in the favourite army thread - what army structure and composition do you use to spice up battles or get a bit of variety?

I see that lots of folks start out with Knight heavy or Knight only armies and progress on to Huscarl/SShooter armies. This is exactly what I have done - and fair enough too! But Knights are broken and it is easy to win with them - and though it requires more skill to manage the Huscarl/SShooter option I feel this is almost equally powerful.

So what? Where from here?

Well there is nothing wrong with this - and I am not suggesting you stop doing what you enjoy - but what is a good loadout which provides fun and a challenge at the sametime.

I use longbowmen - I love em. My army is composed of 20 HInf and 50-70 longbows - plus companions and recruits. I can crush anything that comes into range excepting campaign armies of - say 400+.

I just feel this is a little too close to the Huscarl/SShooter format and wondered what - say - more experienced players opt for in terms of army composition.

 

[manekemaan]

Try an army composition of all units an equal amount (companions included).  It gives you the option of flanking tactics, and disables you of using your cavalry force as a tank

or just try playing pure khergits, they require micro management but if done wel they can be as efficient as any other army + fast travel speed ^^

 

[Remedius]

I had considered Khergits - it's a good suggestion but - they drive me crazy. If I have 50 Khergits - that's usually 40 that need direct supervision. You say micromanage but I think that's too mild. The bastards just want to die. I once had a unit of vharchers follow me - I made them skirt the enemy giving a massive space on either side so they don't run into the enemy. What happens? I turn to fire an arrow turn back and see half of them bogged down in Rhodok infantry. WTF.

I like Khergits but pure Khergits are more trouble than worth.

 

[MacHyper]

One time a made an army with about 100 men Swadian infantry and it was really funny. I defeated every enemy and it looked really cool when my <army in red> charged.

 

[Remedius]

Mid tier is a good thought too - but a bit pedestrian.

Has anyone used just Swadian footmen as an army core?

 

[Lord Brutus]

Mid tier is a good thought too - but a bit pedestrian.

Has anyone used just Swadian footmen as an army core?

The prospect of a core of Swadian footmen makes me want to stick needles in my eyes so I could avoid witnessing the ensuing carnage. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but I've not done it, nor will I try. They seem to fall way too easily.

 

[Blackfish]

I'd say try Vaegir archers and infantry - en masse archers demolish everything, but you really have to manage their ammo carefully, especially in bigger battles, so there's some challenge there. And Vaegir guards are decent without being invincible like higher-tier Nords are.

As for Khergits have you thought of taking advantage of the horse archers' mounted status to get to a favourable flanking position and then dismount them? Might make a nice change from the typical Vaegir/Nord archers.

 

[Captain_Octavius]

Try sticking to one faction rather than mixing and matching them.

Or stick to houserules. Mine is simple: I may only recruit from villages that I own. Troops of other villages have mixed loyalties and can thus not be trusted.

This makes it so that I either need to stick to Mercenary troops at the start of the game, or become a vassal so that I get a village to recruit from. It also means I actually need to advance quite a bit in the game before I can start using mixed faction troops.

 

[gnawid]

You could always try a Sword-Sister only army. Who cares if it's difficult to recruit them or the fact that they're so fragile. Imagine rolling with 60 women at once, alone in the vast, vast deserts 

 

[CriticallyAshamed]

I do gnawilds every so often. They're a pain to get but it's always fun to watch 60 screaming women murder everybody with their claymores.

Ahem...

 

[Remedius]

That's Great Folks - thanks.

@ Brutal - yeh - ok - maybe that's a step too far - hee hee (but it is the kind of thing I'm looking far as an option)

@ Octavius - this is really good and may be the way I go actually. The thing is I might just end up going with sergeants/shooters and be back to square one.

@gnawlid/criticallyashamed - I also like this idea too - I think Sword Sisters have weak horses but they wear full plate and have crossbows - badass if you don't mind avoiding cavalry charges. Tough to recruit - I shall have to go to the steppe and find some bandits.

 

[killer-blead]

Or stick to houserules.

Aye, I do this too, Except I can recruit from any fief within my faction (so still the same faction troops) until my faction defeats another faction then I "unlock" those troops.

 

[Remedius]

I think I might add a few Slaver Cheifs to the retinue and replace the HInf with Sword Sisters - that way they can shoot too before engaging in melee.

Does anyone have purely horse archer companions at all ?

 

[Sir GabrieL]

Am I the only one who likes to play with no mixed troop?
If play like a Nord, I just got Nords on my army.
In my currently game I'm a Swadian so only Swadians are recruted.

Though, this idea of "Unlocking" new recruits as you conquer a new territory is pretty cool.

 

[Remedius]

No - of course it depends onhow you intend toplaythe game but I have always looked at the various factions in the way Lezalit describes : ie using the troops of each faction to their strengths and thereby create a multinational coalition force that is stronger than any single faction enemy army.

 

[Lord Brutus]

No - of course it depends onhow you intend toplaythe game but I have always looked at the various factions in the way Lezalit describes : ie using the troops of each faction to their strengths and thereby create a multinational coalition force that is stronger than any single faction enemy army.

And Lezalit is wise in this advice. I usually can't wait to eliminate Swadia from the map so I can begin using Swadian Knights without morale penalty.

 

[pickled_heretic]

except, 100% huscarls would dominate a mixed army.  the only thing an army can do better is 100% rhodok sharpshooters at taking a castle.

that's why everyone who is minmaxing will end up using both huscarls and sharpshooters.

I don't know if this is not native, since I play with custom commander (the only mod I use), but I like to use Avantis's rangers, and make them into my own custom heavy infantry.  Rarely do you get to see 2 handed weapons being used consistently, so I outfit my rangers with heavy armor and 2handed swords and polearms only, and I use them in reserve as shock troops in their own group.  Unfortunately their skills are not as high as huscarls since they are generalists, but it still works pretty well.

 

[Remedius]

Ok here is what I am thinking at the mo:

20- 30% Sword Sisters

~60% Longbowmen (Vaegir Marksmen)

~5% Companion Horse archer cavalry

5% Slaver Cheif

If I have recruits they will have to fit in somewhere.

Formation:

CC  AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA  SlSl

                  SSSSSSSS

The companions can skirmish forward and to the enemies rear and as the enemy advance they are shot by the combined might of the Sisters and the Archers and when the enemy break I just order all to go blunt and CHARGE!!!!

 

[pickled_heretic]

Ok here is what I am thinking at the mo:

20- 30% Sword Sisters

~60% Longbowmen (Vaegir Marksmen)

~5% Companion Horse archer cavalry

5% Slaver Cheif

If I have recruits they will have to fit in somewhere.

Formation:

CC  AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA  SlSl

                  SSSSSSSS

The companions can skirmish forward and to the enemies rear and as the enemy advance they are shot by the combined might of the Sisters and the Archers and when the enemy break I just order all to go blunt and CHARGE!!!!

be careful about going blunt... units without blunt weapons will stop defending themselves and switch to their hands if they are ordered to use blunt :O

 

[Moneyman]

I usually avoid mixing my forces until later in the game(my sharpshooters don't seem to appreciate me torching Rhodocks), and I tend to use troops belonging to the faction I'm currently with. But lately I've been mixing them up and trying all of them out. I like having some Sarranid Master Archers mixed in with my sharpshooters, their fast rate of fire helps to compensate for when the sharpshooters are reloading, in my nooby opinion. I also like to have a group of Khergit Horse Archers in my team when I'm facing cavalry and foot archers, I let the main cavalry charge and scatter the infantry and army, then I let my Khergits loose on them after things are a little less crowded.

Another thought as well, even if Huscarls + Sharpshooters was the best combo for top tier, that doesn't mean they are the best option for lower tier soldiers. One thing I like about Khegrits is that I can quickly upgrade them into cavalry units. Granted, they die easily, but they are also cheap and easy to get.

EDIT: This guy has a couple army structures he has put together, I don't know if their any good, but at least you can get some different opinions.

https://sites.google.com/site/mbcharcreation/army-structure