Knight

[Tork789]

fair enough but you also think menavlion and glaive are fine so ?

So that makes my opinion wrong by default? Look, the stats of the knight are similar to those of mamluke and sturgia, yet he has no perk for a long lance and they do. It doesn't take a balance guru to realize that it's not fair.

And if you think that reach doesn't really matter than you aren't against my suggestion anyways. Hell I would even agree if they bumped up the price back to 190 because of the armour perk and give him that sturgy shield as default, basically reverting the changes. I never minded that he cost 190 back then.

 

[부부를 넘어서 가자]

So that makes my opinion wrong by default? Look, the stats of the knight are similar to those of mamluke and sturgia, yet he has no perk for a long lance and they do. It doesn't take a balance guru to realize that it's not fair.

And if you think that reach doesn't really matter than you aren't against my suggestion anyways. Hell I would even agree if they bumped up the price back to 190 because of the armour perk and give him that sturgy shield as default, basically reverting the changes. I never minded that he cost 190 back then.

No it doesn't it just shows that you have another approach the game than most people. That's ok.
You're free to have another opinion but I think the longer lance does way less in bannerlord due to the 2xw 2xs spamming than it did on warband without such a mechanic. You want this class to be buffed, I think Vlandia is already the strongest faction in the game and doesn't need buffs. On any class.

 

[Tork789]

No it doesn't it just shows that you have another approach the game than most people. That's ok.
You're free to have another opinion but I think the longer lance does way less in bannerlord due to the 2xw 2xs spamming than it did on warband without such a mechanic. You want this class to be buffed, I think Vlandia is already the strongest faction in the game and doesn't need buffs. On any class.

You contradict yourself by stating that reach doesn't matter and that a longer lance perk is a buff. You gotta pick one. And I even suggested a compromise - a cost increase for the class. What you are trying to say isn't exactly clear.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

You contradict yourself by stating that reach doesn't matter and that a longer lance perk is a buff. You gotta pick one. And I even suggested a compromise - a cost increase for the class. What you are trying to say isn't exactly clear.

Heavy cav needs to cost 200g

 

[부부를 넘어서 가자]

You contradict yourself by stating that reach doesn't matter and that a longer lance perk is a buff. You gotta pick one. And I even suggested a compromise - a cost increase for the class. What you are trying to say isn't exactly clear.

?? I didn't you said it's the weakes heavy cav class and suggested a buff for knight. I didn't.
A great lance that outranges everyone and is couchable like on warband as perk would be a buff.

 

[Tork789]

Heavy cav needs to cost 200g

Why?

?? I didn't you said it's the weakes heavy cav class and suggested a buff for knight. I didn't.
A great lance that outranges everyone and is couchable like on warband as perk would be a buff.

You said that reach doesn't matter, but now say that longer reach is a buff, so which is it? You can't claim both if you want to make any sense.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Why?

And I even suggested a compromise - a cost increase for the class.

Idk man maybe because you suggested it in the post I was quoting???

Come on dude. Are you serious??? This is definitive proof that you dont actually care at all what you are saying, and you just say the opposite of whatever the comp players are saying.

 

[Tork789]

Idk man maybe because you suggested it in the post I was quoting???

Come on dude. Are you serious??? This is definitive proof that you dont actually care at all what you are saying, and you just say the opposite of whatever the comp players are saying.

1. I didn't suggest it to cost 200 gold.
2. I didn't say the opposite of what you said, I merely asked a question.
3. Chill.

 

[부부를 넘어서 가자]

You said that reach doesn't matter, but now say that longer reach is a buff, so which is it? You can't claim both if you want to make any sense.

Are you seriously comparing a 10 more range lance and a great lance??

 

[Namakan]

What Tork thinks 'Great Lance' means:

What it actually means:

 

[Tork789]

Are you seriously comparing a 10 more range lance and a great lance??

I'm not, you are. You said yourself that range doesn't matter and brought great lance into this conversation even though we've clearly been discussing the 204 long lance before. So which is it now? Am I taking it correctly that when you said that range doesn't matter you ment the 204 long lance and you think that my proposal to give the knight his old longer lance perk back isn't a buff?

What Tork thinks 'Great Lance' means:

What it actually means:

I don't. Look closely at my posts when I mention great lance and when I use longer lance.

 

[부부를 넘어서 가자]

You said that they're low tier due to shorter lance compared to other heavy cavs and therefore suggested a great lance perk. I said the default lance is long enough and the 10 more range or whatever it is that the other cavs have more barely effect the gameplay. Knight has however good armour and a solid horse already by default and all around usefull perks to pick from, which is something other cav units don't have (only obtainable by using both perks). Therefore the 'weaker' lance is outweighted by the other advantages this class has. I didn't even comment on the great lance thing as it's stupid. The only reason why this broken weapon was barely used on warband was its cost. If you get it via perk Vlandia which is already the strongest faction will be unbeatable.
Replacing the cavalry mace perk with heavy lance perk so there's tradeoff for it (no heavy armour) that's ok with me I won't use it. Giving Knights a longer lance by default is not needed.

 

[Tork789]

Replacing the cavalry mace perk with heavy lance perk so there's tradeoff for it (no heavy armour) that's ok with me

That's the only thing I wanted to hear.

UPD: Okay now that the knight costs 190 gold again at least give him his heavy lance perk back.

 

[Firunien]

Tougher horse perk is a downgrade from the default one, 15hp doesnt outweigh the -4 charge and -2 maneuver.

 

[Tork789]

Tougher horse perk is a downgrade from the default one, 15hp doesnt outweigh the -4 charge and -2 maneuver.

+1

 

[Wardrobe_Fuat]

Shouldn't Khuzaits have the best cavalry unit instead of Vlandians? It costs same as others, but this guy has the highest armor, best horse and best horse armor and longest lance (there is kontos, but its not a lance)

They should cost more than others or must be nerfed to make it fair.

 

[flashn00b]

Shouldn't Khuzaits have the best cavalry unit instead of Vlandians? It costs same as others, but this guy has the highest armor, best horse and best horse armor and longest lance (there is kontos, but its not a lance)

They should cost more than others or must be nerfed to make it fair.

I think there are more factors besides horse/barding/spear length.

Aserai spearmen, all pikemen, most heavies, and all medium infantry (Spear Infantry/Wildling with Throwing Spear) can stab most cavalry units quite competently, and the Knight and Mameluke have the worst self-defense capabilities should they ever lose their horse.

Druzhnik has the Bastard Axe
Khuzait Cavalry Mace is almost on par with the Khuzait Heavy Mace, and is still faster than the Vlandian Cavalry Sword
Cataphract has the Imperial Battle Axe, though he has his own reasons for being the worst heavy cavalry in the game

 

[Wardrobe_Fuat]

I think there are more factors besides horse/barding/spear length.

Aserai spearmen, all pikemen, most heavies, and all medium infantry (Spear Infantry/Wildling with Throwing Spear) can stab most cavalry units quite competently, and the Knight and Mameluke have the worst self-defense capabilities should they ever lose their horse.

Druzhnik has the Bastard Axe
Khuzait Cavalry Mace is almost on par with the Khuzait Heavy Mace, and is still faster than the Vlandian Cavalry Sword
Cataphract has the Imperial Battle Axe, though he has his own reasons for being the worst heavy cavalry in the game

Having longer lance means they are less likely to risk their horse on encounters since they can hit from farther away. Also Having better maneuverable horse mans, you will get hit less, its hitpoints being higher and horse armor means the horse will die by even less chance. And the soldier armor is also the highest, which means he will have the most chance to survive on the horse and even when he falls down.
I am mostly talking about how it happens in tdm/siege.

 

[flashn00b]

Having longer lance means they are less likely to risk their horse on encounters since they can hit from farther away. Also Having better maneuverable horse mans, you will get hit less, its hitpoints being higher and horse armor means the horse will die by even less chance. And the soldier armor is also the highest, which means he will have the most chance to survive on the horse and even when he falls down.
I am mostly talking about how it happens in tdm/siege.

Longer lance/horse armor isn't an end-all be-all. Human error is still a factor to consider, and the Knight's armor is mostly meaningless if his weapon's so painfully slow that he'll much sooner die to a thousand paper cuts than have a decent sword to fend off attackers.

From what i've seen in skirmish and captain, Battanian and Khuzait pikes will still ruin a Knight's day, and a heavy infantry's spear is JUST long enough to headstab a horse without necessarily getting skewered by a long lance. The knight's overspecialization on mounted combat over defending one's self is still a very exploitable weakness, vs. the Sturgian and Khuzait heavy cavs' superior self-defense options.

The only time i can imagine the Vlandian Cavalry Sword really saving a dismounted knight is if you're good at kick-slashing, which only works in a 1v1 context. If multiple players are targeting you after a successful horse kill, then you're already dead.

 

[Wardrobe_Fuat]

Again I repeat myself.
"I am mostly talking about how it happens in tdm/siege." Where armor, horse armor, horse maneuveribility, horse health, lance lenghth, shield size matters so much.