Knight type Character weapon advice

[Seekster]

As far back as beta M&B I have enjoyed playing as a Knight type character who usually joins the Swadians (which now is more interesting because if they fight more than two factions at once they are uber screwed and having to fight a southern and a northern faction is hard too since they are in the middle of the map).

My typical weapon load out for my Knight type character (when I can afford it obviously is as follows, also I will find the best modifiers if I can afford it but for my purposes here I will list the base item without the modifiers):

-Spiked Mace or Military Hammer

(basically a good one-handed blunt weapon for capturing people and because blunt weapons have a slight advantage against armor (not as much as piercing but more than cutting) I believe, if this is not true then please correct me).

-A Great Sword or Badiche

(this slot is for my long reach 2h weapon for when I want to gallop around cutting off heads, for most enemies I can one shot them with this since if I hit them right and have a decent Power Strike skill).

-Heavy Lance

(I started off with Pikes but then when you couldnt wield them on horseback anymore I went with the Heavy Lance, now couching is different and I am not as good at it anymore so I have recently started looking at the Lance or Light Lance to serve as a replacement as the Heavy Lance is just too slow to be much use outside of couching unless you have plenty of room with is usually not the case in a crowd of Swadian Knights).

-some kind of Kite Shield

(This one is more for aesthetic appeal and to keep my back side protected against those pesky ranged units, speed isnt so important to me as size but I cant use a Board Shield on horseback anymore so meh).


For Sieges I trade this equipment out for a Morning Star (or as I call it a medieval can opener for how well it works against heavily armored troops), a Heavy Crossbow (Siege is just too slow for me), a bag of large steel bolts, and sometimes a board shield though a Kite shield seems to get the job done most times too.


With the most recent versions I have encountered some notable problems with this layout. The Spiked Mace and Hammers are much shorter now than they used to be so I have to ride right up to the guy I want to knock out. That being said they still work well, especially when people are running away ^_^.

A bigger problem with with my 2-hander. I have tried the Great Sword and the Badiche (the longer one) in the most recent version and had mixed results. I think the Badiche is a bit better but like I said when you are in tight quarters which is usually the case, the badiche and other long weapons are severely limited in their use.

With the Heavy Lance, I found that couching is harder to do and so usually after the initial charge the lance is only used to poke the enemy horses in the bum till they fall down and turn their rider into slow ass infantry aka dead meat. Ive always like the reach of the Heavy Lance but now it just seems too slow to fulfill the previously mentioned horse ass poking needle-death roll. I have moved down to the Lance and so far it seems to be working well though its harder to couch with it somewhat.

Anyway I was hoping to maybe get some advice from other people on what sort of equipment layouts have worked for their mounted characters. One thing though, I am a crappy shot so I gave up the bow and arrow long ago so keep it to melee weapons please. Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[Madae]

Morningstars are a traditional knight weapon. If you wanted to be as close to a Knight as possible, that's the best route. Historically, 2handed weapons would not be used while mounted. The weapon would need to be light weight and easy to swing on both sides of the horse, and large, unwieldy weapons would not serve that purpose very well. Not to say that large weapons weren't used on horseback, though - there are some instances of that.

Heavy "knightly" cavalry also rarely fought in close quarters. They usually performed a heavy charge, pulled back to regroup, and then charged again. Their presence was mostly a "shock" tactic, and if close quarters combat was something that needed to be done, it would most likely be done on foot.

In the game, high damage one-handers is what I would use on horseback. Something that can swing quickly (not an issue the more skilled with one-handers you are), but powerful enough to kill most units in a single hit. The Heavy Morningstar is perfect for this - the range isn't altogether to great, but it has very high damage (40, one of, if not the, most damaging one-handed weapon) and the bonus of bypassing a shield is an excellent perk. Military Cleavers, I think, have the same stats, but I prefer a Morningstar for the look (in addition to bypassing shields). Axes would be something else to look into for their bonus against shields.

I haven't had much luck using two-handed weapons on horses. True, they have great range, but they suffer a damage penalty when used on horse with one hand and my great sword has issues killing a unit with one swing (whereas my Morningstar does not). It also has reach issues when in very close quarters, and that can get annoying quickly. Lances are mildly useful, since you can only couch and target a single unit with it. I never kill more than one person at a time with a couched lance and unless the unit(s) are almost dead already, I rarely trample others for enough to do anything to them either.

The best weapons, in my opinion, are the Morningstar/Heavy Morningstar, and a regular one-handed spear for the extra reach - you can't couch with this spear though (not that I care personally). A one-handed spear attacks quickly and has about 50 more range than a Morningstar (80-90'ish for a Morningstar, 130-135 for a Spear). The longer reach for catching fleeing units makes up for it's lower damage.

 

[Charlie Brooker]

Masterwork Long Arming Sword is always interesting. :3

 

[Occam]

My character is currently equipped with

Tempered Long Arming Sword
I rarely use my 1hander from horseback  but I keep it in the first slot for ambushers, drunks and assassins.

Reinforced Huscarl Shield
With 4 or 5 points in shield skill size doesn't matter much so I was using a Thick Knighly Heater shield for a while because I like the look better but it broke on me during one prolonged siege so I decided to go with something more durable. Steel shields are good too and I can block all arrows shot at me with it but I found the huscarl first when I was shopping. I might change to a steel shield later just because the size seems more appropriate on horseback.

Balanced Jousting Lance
Blunt damage for taking prisoners. I really only get one blow in with it on the initial charge then maybe a few more chasing routers at the end of the fight. If you like to fight with your lance as well as couch it I would suggest trying a Balanced Double Sided Lance. It's the fastest and shortest lance (120 reach I think) making it the most useful when the 2 cavalries are all knotted up. I like Light Lances too but I think the Double Sided is better for active thrusting.


Heavy Great Long Axe
This is the weapon I do most of my fighting with. It has 127 reach and does 56c damage...that's 36c damage with the penalty for using it one handed from horseback but it is more than made up for by the movement bonus. The reach is great for fighting enemy cavalry, which I concentrate on doing at the beginning of every battle to take them out before they can kill my foot soldiers. In sieges I stand just out of reach of the enemy and keep slashing overhead between my men. I get a lot of kills and the only real danger to me are the archers.

I carry a siege crossbow in my bags and when I remember to equip it I go into the siege armed with the crossbow, huscarl shield, and axe. I hold the shield up to block arrows as I approach then I switch to the axe and chop away.

 

[LBaeldeth]

My character's a bit more eastern-Europe-y than the common knight, but the weapon loadout is similar. I like to have two one-handed weapons available for dealing with different situations.

Slot 1: Heavy Morningstar. Perfect for ripping up troops with heavier armour and/or big shields.

Slot 2: Balanced Sarranid Cavalry Sword. Good reach, high damage, high speed, this is my weapon of choice for dealing with mobs of bandits or other light troops. I chose Sarranid over Arming, Nordic or Sabre because I like the weapon model better.

Slot 3: Varies. I rarely actually use something other than the first two from horseback. I've experimented with bardiches, hafted blades and two-handed scimitars; might give a spear or double-headed lance a go next.

Slot 4: Reinforced Knightly Kite Shield.

In a siege I swap the shield for a Rhodok door and both 1h weapons for a siege crossbow and bolts.

 

[StinkyMcGirk]

Morningstar is the safe choice since it only receives a 15.5 % damage penalty one handed - but if you get dismounted the slow speed will give you problems unless you use it two handed, so you want to have both proficiencies in good standing to get the most from it.  Heavy great longaxe (press x to swing on horseback) is the anti cavalry choice with its monstrous damage, bonus against shields, and 127 range - pair this with a steppe charger or if you're bold, spirited/champion sarranid horse.  If you're going to use a polearm, I've found the balanced light lance and the balanced long awlpike to be my favorites.  The long arming sword is the most adaptable weapon that excels in just about any mounted situation.  If you're on the ground, though, the long arming sword can be too long in tight melees with enemy cavalry, and the quicker slashing attacks take a while to cut through heavy armor.  If it's masterwork, it's even better than the heavy great longaxe or morningstar for fighting armored enemies in my mind.

For siege defense:  poleaxe, heavy great long bardiche, morningstar, regular voulge, balanced sword of war, balanced two handed sabre are all good choices for spamming overhead swings.

For siege offense:  Masterwork heavy Xbow or siege Xbow + 3x large bag of steel bolts.

So... for a classical knight type, ideal load-out would be:

Masterwork Long Arming Sword
Shield of choice
Balanced Light Lance
Balanced Military Pick / Spiked Mace (any fast short range armor piercing weapon)

Then just switch to the Xbow + 3x bolts during offensive sieges.  Maybe switch to one of the long slashing polearms for defensive sieges, or stick with your long arming sword for convenience.

Equipped in that order.  At least that's how I'd set it up so that if you're ambushed in a town, the long arming sword is the first to draw, and if you couch with the light lance and have your momentum stopped or get dehorsed, the military pick is the next on your weapon swaps for the resulting mob-melee.

 

[Madae]

This shouldn't bother me as much as it does, but this is the second time I've seen someone refer to the Morningstar as a two-handed weapon.

For future reference;

http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Mount%26Blade/Weapons

 

[Occam]

Wikis are often incomplete.

Check ingame, Morningstars are labeled 'Two-handed/One-handed'.

Wielded 2handed they have the full listed damage and speed.
They can also be wielded 1handed with a shield at 15% less damage and speed.

 

[XSevSpreeX]

Wikis are often incomplete.

Check ingame, Morningstars are labeled 'Two-handed/One-handed'.

Wielded 2handed they have the full listed damage and speed.
They can also be wielded 1handed with a shield at 15% less damage and speed.

This is true. Whenever a weapons says "Two-handed/One-handed" it shows the stats when using it 2-handed. But I think it's a 35% penalty for using it 1-handed, rather than 15%.

Anyways, what I do for a knight character is:

Masterwork Long Arming Sword (if you think it's too long you can go for something a bit shorter)
Reinforced Knightly Heater Shield (you can use 2 if you want, I do because I don't truly see the need for 3 different weapons at once, unless you want a blunt)
Any 1 handed spear that you can couch lance with (If it's not 1-handed obviously you can't use a shield, which is more useful in WB because even when your shield isn't up it'll still block projectiles, unlike in vanilla M&B where you could shoot through shields that aren't on your back or held up)

 

[Madae]

Wikis are often incomplete.

Check ingame, Morningstars are labeled 'Two-handed/One-handed'.

Wielded 2handed they have the full listed damage and speed.
They can also be wielded 1handed with a shield at 15% less damage and speed.

Hmm, so it does - strange that I never noticed that before.

 

[Crossbow Joe]

(basically a good one-handed blunt weapon for capturing people and because blunt weapons have a slight advantage against armor (not as much as piercing but more than cutting) I believe, if this is not true then please correct me).

No blunt does the most damage against armour, then pierce and cut is severely reduced
Usually If I make a knight character I use a heavy lance, knightly heater shield, long arming sword and usually I have the last one free. Though in sieges its always good to replace the lance with a crossbow and the free space with some bolts or just have the bolts on you at all times

 

[Blackfish]

My impression is also that piercing damage ignores 50% of armor while blunt damage only ignores 25%.

 

[Jock]

This is my knight type of character. Of course you can wear Plate Armor and a Full Helmet, but I don't like them.

Spoiler

The weapons are Morningistar and a Balanced Light Lance. The shields are Thick Heavy(I'm not sure about the Heavy) Knightly Heater Shields.

 

[Crossbow Joe]

My impression is also that piercing damage ignores 50% of armor while blunt damage only ignores 25%.

This is the code for it in native
armor_soak_factor_against_cut      = 0.8
armor_soak_factor_against_pierce    = 0.65
armor_soak_factor_against_blunt    = 0.5

 

[Blackfish]

Huh, I see... I suppose I'll have to re-think how I choose a weapon. Is there a blunt weapon comparable to the morningstar? (Decent range, swing only and one-handed, I mean.)

 

[Hughes]

Best one-handed blunt weapon, I think (combining range, damage, and speed) is the Heavy Military Hammer.
Best two-handed blunt weapon I think is the Heavy Warhammer or Heavy Iron Mace. I don't think there's a blunt weapon that's both one- and two-handed.

If you're making a knightly character, there's few weapons more knightly than the Sword. I recommend the Balanced Heavy Bastard Sword; if you stab with it, you deliver good piercing damage against heavily armored opponents, and slash to cut down the ones in leather or cloth. Finally it lets you carry both a one- and two-handed weapon in a single slot.

I also have a knightly character, using the Balanced Heavy Bastard Sword, Balanced Lance, Reinforced Knightly (or Heavy) Kite Shield, and a thrown weapon like War Darts; during sieges I swap out the lance and darts for bow and arrows.

 

[phantom67]

Whats the general opinion of Bastard swords? I kinda like them since you can use them on horseback along with a shield, but I've you're in close quarters, you can easily switch to Two-handed. I like the versatility.

 

[Hughes]

Bastard sword's my favorite weapon. Nice long reach on horseback, not too long for melee, decently fast, versatile for so many situations: piercing and slashing, good damage one-handed and devastating with two hands.

 

[Soogie]

I usually equip my character with a balanced long arming sword, balanced long awlpike, The best Huscarl shield i can find, and a heavy military hammer for taking prisoners. I perfer long, quick swords for my mounted characters because they excel in taking out large bunches of infantry quickly. I ride up to the group, smash into the first few, and then spam overhead swings, with my knights and companions at my side to offer me cover and support. This tactic can also be used to take out large groups of cavalry that are bogged down (you couldn't really do that with a short one hander).

For taking out cavalry that are on the move, i prefer my balanced long awlpike. It's 185 reach is great, and its fast enough to be used to kite large groups of troops while continuously stabbing at them. I dont like couching, because stabs nearly always kill everything in one hit anyway and are much faster.

I personally dont really like using one-half handers and two handers from horseback. The speed and damage penalty they get turns me away from them. I want my primary weapon (my balanced long arming sword) to be quick enough to kill large groups of enemies and powerful enough to be used even when im not moving.

 

[StinkyMcGirk]

Huh, I see... I suppose I'll have to re-think how I choose a weapon. Is there a blunt weapon comparable to the morningstar? (Decent range, swing only and one-handed, I mean.)

Probably the closest to what you want is the spiked staff, but it has drastically lower damage, doesn't crush through, and much higher (117 vs. 85) range.  I'd stick with the morningstar for reasons detailed below:

Basically, piercing damage does less damage when it's a small amount, but once it clears the armor's soak factor, has greater potential to cause a lot of damage - so large amounts of piercing damage are fantastic.  This is why morningstars, larger xbows, awlpikes, and military picks are great in the right hands.

Blunt weapons have a 15% easier time clearing the soak factor of armors (which is basically a number directly subtracted from the damage), but are 25% less effective than piercing weapons in terms of what % of the total damage is lost due to the armor AFTER bypassing the soak.  This makes blunt weapons ideal for inflicting fast attacks dealing smaller damage.  The knockdown chance also works best with fast weapons.  It also makes them a little better suited to close quarters combat with a very heavily armored enemy, as you're unlikely to be able to perfectly line up your hits when countering, and blunt weapons are almost guaranteed to inflict some damage.  The knockdown also becomes a blessing in these situations.

So... in the beginning of the game when you need victims for ransom and your companions have low power strike - I say fast short range blunt weapons is the way to go.  Later on when you're sieging a lot, and you need to companions to one or two hit KO medium to heavy armor - switch to balanced military picks or morningstars wielded in two hands.  Actually, I should also mentions sieges in particular:  Enemies knocked out by a blunt weapon can recover if you don't take their fortifications on the first try.  Enemies killed by piercing weapons don't have that luxury.