Native Completed Kitten's Badly Organized Outdoor Brawl (K-BOOB)

[Kitten-mew!]

The Arena will be allowed, though nobody seems to choose it. Khergits, on the other hand, are up for debate. I'm about an inch from banning them, though, and following suit with the NC.

 

[Blixn]

My personal opinion would be that Khergits would be allowed, and not the Arena. But as you say, I doubt anyone will choose the Arena. And it's just my opinion.

 

[Kitten-mew!]

Any argument for disallowing Arena? I understand the argument that Khergits are broken on open maps is a bit more difficult to ply on organized 7 vs. 7, where team tactics often blunt the edge of horse archery cheese, but it'd also be nice to hear your opinion on that.

MODIFY: Black Shields has been entered as our first (and fattest) competitor!

 

[Blixn]

Regarding Khergits I think that there is no reason for banning a faction for being unbalanced on certain maps since there are plenty other factions that are better or worse than other factions on diffrent maps as well. Why not ban Rhodoks because of them being Superior on some maps?

The Arena I just do not see as a battle map. For example you can get shot on spawn quite easily.

Probably not much of an answer you'll have to lure 'em out of me :p

 

[Kitten-mew!]

With Khergits, I think the thing is that no other faction has such a dichotomy of play based on maps. They're nearly useless on urban maps or just so clearly inferior that they're not worth picking. On wide-open maps they're debated to be the best faction in the game and it wouldn't surprise me to see it banned just because it sucks the fun out of competition. I wouldn't ban Rhodocks for their varied match-ups on maps because those are within reason. There's some variance, yes (wide open maps with less cover being a nightmare for most crossbows), but not to the point where they're either the worst or the best in the game.

Swadia is the closest thing, I think, to having the 'Khergit' syndrome of being either horribly bad or horribly good. On wide-open maps their cavalry is amazing and compensates for their less-than-amazing infantry. Their crossbows have nice armor and shields, though, and things balance out reasonably well for them on most maps.

The Arena is rather silly, yeah. Forest Hideout was banned for the same reason. On the other hand, one team spawns behind a palisade, which is nice for them. Maybe it'll be banned; I was planning on using it for a side-event some day anyways.

MODIFY: Furthermore, for the current format it's possible to pick an open map, they pick whichever spawn, and then you take Khergits, receiving a clear advantage. Another reason to ban 'em.

 

[MrNomNom]

隐藏

I heard a a rumor that the Malions are rallying... Just sayin'
Those Confirmed:
Malion_Capt_Bad_Frawg
Malion_Veteran_Nylon

They are however awaiting replies from:
Malion_Elite_Scott_Grey
Malion_Attacker_Old_Man
Malion_Merc_CALM
Malion_Sergeant_ExtinguishingApe
Malion_Merc_Veggie_Burger
Malion_Capt_Soakkith
Malion_Capt_Deliberate_Noble
Malion_Jane_Martin

The Malions also offer those that retired from Malioness to re-take arms, Those are:
Malion_Sergeant_Greeks
Malion_Attacker_DullShooter
Malion_Merc_Elflauncher

Those that are unable to remember what their name is should seek physcitric help from Dr BlackTide. Please direct your confirmation to me.

Pure rumor.

 

[Kherven]

I think Khergits would be fine.

However, Arena and Forest Hideout definitely should not be considered competitive maps.

 

[Catholic]

I dislike both khergits and Arena. Arena gives an advantage to one team's archers, as well as the infantry if they choose to hide behind the palisade. It's also just... overall, not a scrim map. Khergits are extremely situational. Put them on Village and they'll do poorly, while put them on Random Plains and they'll practically instawin the round.

 

[Mr.X]

I dislike both khergits and Arena. Arena gives an advantage to one team's archers, as well as the infantry if they choose to hide behind the palisade. It's also just... overall, not a scrim map. Khergits are extremely situational. Put them on Village and they'll do poorly, while put them on Random Plains and they'll practically instawin the round.

Disagree with both points. Arena doesn't give one team an advantage any more than any other map does. Just because a team chooses to camp doesn't give them an advantage.

Also, khergits can win on any map, just like any other faction. Depends on the players.

 

[Kitten-mew!]

Arena has one team with a palisade and one team with an open side. I dunno if that constitutes a large advantage, but it kind of seems like it.

 

[peers]

Khergits should obviously not be allowed. Only teams who would use them would be using them solely because of their imbalance.. No serious team would actually use them except maybe nKKK.

 

[Mr.X]

Arena has one team with a palisade and one team with an open side. I dunno if that constitutes a large advantage, but it kind of seems like it.

Ruins has one side with a village. Snowy village has one side with a barn. Village has one side with a village. Ruined Fort haas one side with a village. Battle on Ice (which is always forgotten for some reason) has one side with boats. Field by the river is pretty symmetrical imo. Nord Town is pretty symmetrical as well.

So it looks like we've narrowed the list down to Field by the River, Nord Town, and Random Plains/Steppes. Amirite?

 

[Kitten-mew!]

Battle on Ice is a terrible map to begin with because you can go up into the mountains with all the trees. Snowy Village is a pretty bad map, IMO, but usually it doesn't degenerate into spawn camping. You of all people should know how irrelevant the barn can be because of MotF anyways. Ruins, one side (bar cavalry getting there way faster) has access to the central ruins one one side has access to the arches on top of their village, so that always seems to be pretty balanced out no matter how you slice it.

I'm not saying it's a ban-worthy advantage. I'm actually in -favor- of keeping Arena because it's, to me, a fast-paced map that doesn't support camping or running to enforce a draw. Sorry if I unthinkingly said something  like that, I was not thinking well enough. Maps like Nord Town, FBTR, Ruins, and stuff are more popular anyways and constitute most of the battles. Fringe picks are often Village and Port Assault. For all the claims of balance, it's difficult to really have both teams be satisfied by rerolls on Random maps.

 

[Mr.X]

Battle on Ice is a terrible map to begin with because you can go up into the mountains with all the trees. Snowy Village is a pretty bad map, IMO, but usually it doesn't degenerate into spawn camping. You of all people should know how irrelevant the barn can be because of MotF anyways. Ruins, one side (bar cavalry getting there way faster) has access to the central ruins one one side has access to the arches on top of their village, so that always seems to be pretty balanced out no matter how you slice it.

I'm not saying it's a ban-worthy advantage. I'm actually in -favor- of keeping Arena because it's, to me, a fast-paced map that doesn't support camping or running to enforce a draw. Sorry if I unthinkingly said something  like that, I was not thinking well enough. Maps like Nord Town, FBTR, Ruins, and stuff are more popular anyways and constitute most of the battles. Fringe picks are often Village and Port Assault. For all the claims of balance, it's difficult to really have both teams be satisfied by rerolls on Random maps.

Port! I knew I forgot one. See that's just my point. Every map can have some sort of advantage if you want to play it that way. And I've grown to love snowy village after all the matches we played on it. And I don't really think you should be worried about camping on such a small map as arena. The only reason I consider Forest Hideout not a good battle map is because the spawns are in sight of each other with no obstacles in between. Most good archers can headshot easily from spawn to spawn.

 

[Kitten-mew!]

Yeah... I'm basically considering Arena to be unbanned, even if it's not the optimal map, just because there's a low danger of it being picked and abused. On the other hand, Random Plains/Steppe Large and/or Forest Hideout are just begging for it.

The more muddled matter is probably like Khergits.

 

[Mr.X]

Hmph. Not sure I like banning random maps. Basically the teams should simply make sure everyone knows it's live before the reset, and then stick with whatever is generated. It's extremely rare that a map will be unplayable. If it seems to be, the admins should get a confirmation from both teams before resetting, though, imo, you really shouldn't be allowed to reset. Maybe 1 reset if your nice. That's the chance you take by picking a random.

 

[Kitten-mew!]

Agreed. I banned Random Plains / Random Steppe Large for just being too big for 7 vs. 7 though, not just for other balance issues. Random Plains / Steppe Medium is a bit of a gamble for both sides and you have to be flexible, but it is available.

 

[Mr.X]

Good. I also doubt many people would even want khergits involved anyway, so it shouldn't be too hard to decide.

 

[Kitten-mew!]

Yeah, they're on their way out once I work up the energy to edit in one line of text. ^^;

 

[Rhade]

Honestly..

Khergits shouldn't be an option. You're only going to pick them if you get an extreme advantage on the map, and if I remember correctly double factions aren't allowed so you can't even really go Khergit vs Khergit. We can nit-pick all we want, but the fact is that Khergits are inherently inbalanced and bring an entire can of worms better left unopened.

I could care less about Arena, really, but the palisade is a bit cheap. All the same, however, your map should be slightly to your advantage.

As to Random Plains, I don't think players should be punished by choosing it and not allowed re-rolls. If you pick random plains, you're basically looking for a pretty flat map. If you choose plains and it gives the enemy a giant, towering mountain next to their spawn, I'm sorry, but that's bull****. You should really be allowed re-rolls in those kind of situations. I'm not saying infinite, but really now, flat plain maps determine skill a lot more than who can camp more, and you shouldn't be punished by having to roll the dice. Random plains should just be flat or more or less flat with a few rolling hills; basically, a pretty even map.