MP Native Kingdoms [Persistent Kingdoms Successor]

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Younes

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
People attack castles all the time, especially when there aren’t many defenders/clan members on. Ever heard of a pub war? They happen almost every day. Few people declare war, more and more join over time until small skirmishes turn into an all-out siege. Fun for all involved. Btw, I don’t know who exactly you are referring to as “the majority of the community”, because 80-90% of players are either in clans, about to join one, or part of a family tag group, all of which are totally fine with such chicanery.
Hoarding carts was not a fun thing to do, might be for you as the one stealing. But I can assure you no one likes not having a cart when they want to go farm.
You'd be crippling the enjoyment of one of the main aspects of the game by just stealing all the carts and prohibiting any meaningful gameplay / grind since carts are basically the driving force of the economy. It isn't fun.
Seeing as hundreds of people have enjoyed how PW has gone, after all these years are still playing (late last year on NA, even now on EU) and want to come back when the Bannerlord version comes out, I think the way PW is played isn’t the problem. Reinventing the wheel isn’t necessary.

PW offered a unique concept to warband, but that doesn't mean you have to keep within your limitations of the warband engine. People played and enjoyed it because it was fun, but also because they understood the limitations of warband. You'd not be able to get this kind of module to be popular if you'd do it on a game engine like unity and only have all of what warband had, considering the complexity and wide tools you have on unity.

This isn't about reinventing the wheel, it's about making gameplay less of a 20 mins walk to look for a cart and more of 10 mins of creating a cart which is a lot more enjoyable and less tiresome.

A 1:1 copy of PW might work for the first few years, but it won't take long before a competitor pops up with better features, the way PK was to PW and why people switched.
 

Master_

Regular
People attack castles all the time, especially when there aren’t many defenders/clan members on. Ever heard of a pub war? They happen almost every day. Few people declare war, more and more join over time until small skirmishes turn into an all-out siege. Fun for all involved. Btw, I don’t know who exactly you are referring to as “the majority of the community”, because 80-90% of players are either in clans, about to join one, or part of a family tag group, all of which are totally fine with such chicanery.
I love how you completely skirt what I said. Sure, people attack castles all the time. Who goes to war over carts? Why would anyone force pubs to try and attack a clan for a basic tool in the game?

Just like your 'optimistic' timeframe on when this will release, you throw out numbers like you have any idea as to what you are going on about. Bannerlord isn't PW. Where is this '80 - 90%' figure coming from? Especially considering the goal of bringing in many new players to the fold.

And if all the clans were 'fine' with it, then why did nearly every server after Illuminati's PW_Legacy (Circa 2014?) have a subsect in the rules concerning cart hoarding? It's because the same people you say are 'fine' with it, levied most of the complaints. Drop the self serving narrative becuase you personally enjoyed it, especially when you were just as bad as the old Roman clan under Meridius when it came to hording carts and cart blocking.
Seeing as hundreds of people have enjoyed how PW has gone, after all these years are still playing (late last year on NA, even now on EU) and want to come back when the Bannerlord version comes out, I think the way PW is played isn’t the problem. Reinventing the wheel isn’t necessary.

And if its the same old song and dance, people will quit again and we'll have another dead mod. PK was a refreshing upgrade over PW, and brought back some players who had left after PW's update cycle was done. The core will remain the same, but from the looks of it, Bridge is putting some major changes in place that we should all look forward to. No one wants a 1:1 copy and paste.


See above. I simply will never understand how you can argue that keeping the broken cart system - where clans could horde all of the carts of the map, pubs be damned - is less of an alienation than having clan members change their steam names to reflect it in game. Then again, you are a clan leader, so I should expect your argumentation to be self serving.

Player experience on the server for everyone as a whole > perks for the clans.

Map design really doesn’t have anything to do with it tbh. The “core” rules of A) halting/demanding B) war/war zones C) clogging D) any outlaw rules and E) glitching/abusing scripts are really the only rules that are totally necessary, though it’s not as simple as that. Details need to be given to avoid unwanted outcomes but, like Bridge said, this isn’t the place to discuss server stuff.
Map design has a lot to do with it, as do the core rules. But arguing that with someone who hasn't been a member of an administration team for any real length of time would be a pointless venture, so I'll bow to Bridge's earlier post and leave it be.
As for the breakable vs. placed prop cart debate, I really don’t give a **** either way. I suppose I lean towards the latter as with breakable ones you are removing an aspect of gameplay which has been important in the past and has at the very least made an impact on things. Want to go for a gold mining trip? Gotta find 3 or 4 carts. Instead, you can just grab some wood and craft them. You’re losing something with that system, even if it’s something small, small gimmicks like that build up quick.
It makes less sense to NOT have craftable carts. Why would anyone want to aimless explore the map, searching castles overnight to hopefully find a cart, that may or may not just be dumped in a wall and hidden, or dropped in the water?

Goes back to earlier points; having the cart system remain that of PW's serves no one but the clans.
In general, I think we should move towards more “aspects” of gameplay rather than less. For example, revamping the crafting system, making farming more in depth, with more preparation stages. It’s things like that which clear up a lot of the monotony of what in reality is just left clicking and pressing f over and over, as at its core there really isn’t much to do on PW. And, if that means it will be slightly more inconvenient to get a cart, that’s okay with me.
I completely agree with this sentiment, though you contradict yourself. You say that "I think the way PW is played isn’t the problem" and that you dont want to reinvent the wheel, yet want revamps to break up the monotony. Not sure where you stand on it based on your post.

But back to the matter at hand;
I thought about some sort of durabillity system for unused carts: if the designated card/boat is too far away from any player for N amount of time and|or unused for N amount of time, it will slowly degrade over time until it despawns, making room for new props to be crafted(there is probably an option to make limits on these things). So making them destroyable would be a result of said mechanic. Not sure about it yet tho, might be too much work for such a small triviality, but definitely something to think about
A durability system would be nice, though I do see ways that could be abused - just have a guy during a siege pick it up and drop it again every once in awhile to infinitely hold the cart and keep others from spawning. However, that's an infinite improvement over the old PW system.

As for boats, we had set number of those in PW as we all know. Had to reset them after they were 'destroyed' and sunk. Are you suggesting here that boats are going to be craftable too then?
 

Roy1012

Archduke
I love how you completely skirt what I said. Sure, people attack castles all the time. Who goes to war over carts? Why would anyone force pubs to try and attack a clan for a basic tool in the game?
Well, as I mentioned, as long as there is a rule against hoarding, it’s fine. There have been such on every major server for the past few years.
Bannerlord isn't PW. Where is this '80 - 90%' figure coming from?
The past few years of playing the game and witnessing how things have gone down.
Especially considering the goal of bringing in many new players to the fold.
I don’t think anyone is doubting this but, if things have worked fine in the past to interest players. I don’t see why it would be different in Bannerlord, and would rope players in any less.
And if all the clans were 'fine' with it, then why did nearly every server after Illuminati's PW_Legacy (Circa 2014?) have a subsect in the rules concerning cart hoarding? It's because the same people you say are 'fine' with it, levied most of the complaints.
I’m talking about them being fine with having to find carts, not the hoarding of carts. As I’ve mentioned, I’m all for anti-griefing rules including banning hoarding carts.
Drop the self serving narrative becuase you personally enjoyed it, especially when you were just as bad as the old Roman clan under Meridius when it came to hording carts and cart blocking.
Find one instance of me/my groups cart blocking. I’ll wait. As for hoarding, I suppose you’ve got an argument there but, once rules were implemented it was highly discouraged amongst us.
And if its the same old song and dance, people will quit again and we'll have another dead mod.
You act as if PW/PK was a failure. What failure? It was one of the most long-lasting mods, outlasting pretty much every warband mod out there. The fact it was alive and populated well into 2020, and is still going, is a testimate to its genius. Sure, people get bored and stop playing, but they do that for every game. I don’t play medieval II total war anymore, does that make that 16 year old game terrible?
PK was a refreshing upgrade over PW, and brought back some players who had left after PW's update cycle was done.
I don’t think you’re very connected with what has been going on in the past few years on PW/PK. Pretty sure PW’s update cycle ended in 2015 or soon after, no? If anything, it either stayed the same (EU) or even grew (NA) after that time, at least on NA largely due to the activity of large clans hosted by people like Shadow, Beefy, Matthew, Jake and myself. We even pulled people from other games and modules and boosted the population for some time. I never saw the population on an NA server get to 200 until 2017, well after I joined the community.
The core will remain the same, but from the looks of it, Bridge is putting some major changes in place that we should all look forward to. No one wants a 1:1 copy and paste.
I’m not saying I do. I’m just saying that taking out an aspect of the game and another thing that you have to “worry about” is probably something to be concerned about. Just like how I’m sure everyone would like a more in depth farming system, it’s another thing you need to pay attention to, which is always good.
See above. I simply will never understand how you can argue that keeping the broken cart system - where clans could horde all of the carts of the map, pubs be damned - is less of an alienation than having clan members change their steam names to reflect it in game. Then again, you are a clan leader, so I should expect your argumentation to be self serving.
Again, if you have rules against this and enforce them, then it isn’t a problem. Just like since 2016 on NA (and as far as I know on EU, during my time in the Lannisters there was no issue with this and we often returned carts to enemies to make sure we wouldn’t be accused of breaking the rule), this has not been an issue.
Map design has a lot to do with it, as do the core rules.
The core rules obviously have much to do with it as I pointed out, but what does map design have? Does castle layout determine how many RDMs there will be? The only thing I can think of is if the merc camp is in a secure, central location so that people will be enticed to declare from it and thus not break a war declaration rule, but other than that I really can’t think of one.
It makes less sense to NOT have craftable carts. Why would anyone want to aimless explore the map, searching castles overnight to hopefully find a cart, that may or may not just be dumped in a wall and hidden, or dropped in the water?
Firstly, carts come to the surface so they can easily be seen and acquired by boat. Secondly, my argument points out that it’s sort of making it the “easy way out”. There’s no challenge if you want to go mine some gold. Just craft a cart real quick and Ichi-go-to-the-polls. Now, obviously, there’s an important distinction to be made here. What things should be made easier for convenience’s sake, and what things should be made harder for gameplay’s sake? To me, the clear answer is things that are far too tedious to make anything a challenge, such as planting every individual seed in a different part of the field. That takes way too long and would not be fun, whereas buying a wheat sack and throwing them in is work, but it’s reasonable. I think looking for and acquiring a cart is more than reasonable, and makes the game a little bit more challenging.
Goes back to earlier points; having the cart system remain that of PW's serves no one but the clans.
That has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I completely agree with this sentiment, though you contradict yourself. You say that "I think the way PW is played isn’t the problem" and that you dont want to reinvent the wheel, yet want revamps to break up the monotony. Not sure where you stand on it based on your post.
Well, what I mean is that we should be adding aspects to gameplay, but not going too far. Keeping true to the model and goal of the game is a recipe for success, and if there are things that can be improved by Bannerlord having a better engine I’m all for it, as long as it’s adding more aspects of gameplay rather than less. I just don’t see finding a cart as a monotonous task. Maybe I’m in the minority on that, but I think spending a few minutes to find a cart is a reasonable price to pay in order to fill up a cart and reap the benefits. I don’t think crafting it is enough.
A durability system would be nice, though I do see ways that could be abused - just have a guy during a siege pick it up and drop it again every once in awhile to infinitely hold the cart and keep others from spawning. However, that's an infinite improvement over the old PW system.
I assumed he meant a few hours by this. Like you won’t see the same carts if you log off and come in the next morning.
As for boats, we had set number of those in PW as we all know. Had to reset them after they were 'destroyed' and sunk. Are you suggesting here that boats are going to be craftable too then?
That’s something that could be good to be craftable, as PW play has proved boats need a major overhaul if they want to be relevant for gameplay.
 

Younes

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
Firstly, carts come to the surface so they can easily be seen and acquired by boat. Secondly, my argument points out that it’s sort of making it the “easy way out”. There’s no challenge if you want to go mine some gold. Just craft a cart real quick and Ichi-go-to-the-polls. Now, obviously, there’s an important distinction to be made here. What things should be made easier for convenience’s sake, and what things should be made harder for gameplay’s sake? To me, the clear answer is things that are far too tedious to make anything a challenge, such as planting every individual seed in a different part of the field. That takes way too long and would not be fun, whereas buying a wheat sack and throwing them in is work, but it’s reasonable. I think looking for and acquiring a cart is more than reasonable, and makes the game a little bit more challenging.
Gathering carts wasn't a challenge, it was an annoyance. You really have to make a distinct difference here. Also, the hardest part about mining gold wasn't finding a cart, it was getting there before massive clans did / getting there the minute it generated.
 

Master_

Regular
Well, as I mentioned, as long as there is a rule against hoarding, it’s fine. There have been such on every major server for the past few years.
Can agree with that, but making them craftable would remove the need for that rule in general, which would be preferred.
The past few years of playing the game and witnessing how things have gone down.
As for PW, fine. Lots of people were in clans. But unless you have some sort of legitimate source, please refrain from making sweep percentage stats out of thin air - just like the aforementioned 'six week' estimate the Froi went on about that was made. PW had a thriving pub community once upon a time, I hope Bannerlord follows suit.
I don’t think anyone is doubting this but, if things have worked fine in the past to interest players. I don’t see why it would be different in Bannerlord, and would rope players in any less.
Fair. But the goal should always be to bring in new players. I recall the days when Avalon and Nexus had full or near full servers on a nightly basis, not the sad 100ish we had by then end.
I’m talking about them being fine with having to find carts, not the hoarding of carts. As I’ve mentioned, I’m all for anti-griefing rules including banning hoarding carts.
No one was 'fine' with it though. The only reason the 'hording' of carts entered the ruleset was due to the sheer volume of complaints. To stay on with the thread; the whole thing would be a nonissue if carts became craftable.
Find one instance of me/my groups cart blocking. I’ll wait. As for hoarding, I suppose you’ve got an argument there but, once rules were implemented it was highly discouraged amongst us.
I remember having to handle multiple complaints on your clan in the past concerning cart blocking with one in particular; specifically in Brack castle on the Normandy map. Only reason I remember it was because I physically had to intervene and end the war because both sides (Blackfyres vs some sort of coalition? I don't recall) just cart blocked their respective castles, ignored members of the staff to stop, and just continued. The war wouldn't end, and both sides used the 'warzone rule' to wipe a bunch of pubs. Had to intervene, reprimand both sides, and force the war to end, which I rarely did. Can count the number of peak time wars I had to end on one hand, so when that happened, **** had properly hit the fan. However, I'll concede the point that I don't remember if you were personally online and leading at the time, but I remember clearly that the Blackfyres held Brack castle and had blocked the gates and flag cap point with carts.

I don't have screenshots on the matter because I was an admin for most of PWs life cycle, I didn't play the mod itself much during peak time.
You act as if PW/PK was a failure. What failure? It was one of the most long-lasting mods, outlasting pretty much every warband mod out there. The fact it was alive and populated well into 2020, and is still going, is a testimate to its genius. Sure, people get bored and stop playing, but they do that for every game. I don’t play medieval II total war anymore, does that make that 16 year old game terrible?
By no means was it a failure, but it did die due to lack of interest, bad servers, and development ending. It is was only a "failure" of a mod per say in the sense that it died, at least in terms of NA.
I don’t think you’re very connected with what has been going on in the past few years on PW/PK. Pretty sure PW’s update cycle ended in 2015 or soon after, no? If anything, it either stayed the same (EU) or even grew (NA) after that time, at least on NA largely due to the activity of large clans hosted by people like Shadow, Beefy, Matthew, Jake and myself. We even pulled people from other games and modules and boosted the population for some time. I never saw the population on an NA server get to 200 until 2017, well after I joined the community.
PW's NA population plummeted for a time after Clarky got DDoSed and his one server (I can't remember which one it was) died off. Think it was celestial that took over after that? But when PK dropped, pops climbed up again, at least for a time. At least that's how I remember how it went down; but I concede that I haven't been active in PW/PK since 2019ish I think, so I'll leave that be. You've been more active than I in recent memory so you're probably correct.

I’m not saying I do. I’m just saying that taking out an aspect of the game and another thing that you have to “worry about” is probably something to be concerned about. Just like how I’m sure everyone would like a more in depth farming system, it’s another thing you need to pay attention to, which is always good.
Fair, +1. From your previous post your 'not reinventing the wheel' didn't make sense in that regard, but thank you for clarifying.
Again, if you have rules against this and enforce them, then it isn’t a problem. Just like since 2016 on NA (and as far as I know on EU, during my time in the Lannisters there was no issue with this and we often returned carts to enemies to make sure we wouldn’t be accused of breaking the rule), this has not been an issue.
I recall it being an on and off issue. It'd be a non-issue for weeks and then a major war would start and someone would be dumb enough to try it again; whole server would flip out and then it'd calm down again. I'd simply like to see it not even be an issue anymore. If you can't cart horde or block castles with undestroyable props, no one can complain about it.
The core rules obviously have much to do with it as I pointed out, but what does map design have? Does castle layout determine how many RDMs there will be? The only thing I can think of is if the merc camp is in a secure, central location so that people will be enticed to declare from it and thus not break a war declaration rule, but other than that I really can’t think of one.
Map design does have to do with RDM numbers. Certain maps - depending on commoner spawn - had more RDMs happen. Shattered realm was terrible for commoner spawn - I saw more complaints in that specific area of the map, the spawn below the town watch - than anywhere else on the whole map. Certain maps - PK's version of shattered realms I think it was, with the two tiered castle on the mountain, across from the sand one - was a constant bed for spawn camping/rdm complaints. Same goes for cart blocking on the narrow pathway to the second tier in that same castle. Certain areas on various maps simply were problematic due to how they were designed. Confined spawns that can be blocked off with carts (Commoner spawns specifically) are something I hope we don't see in this new iteration. But I am no map maker by any means, so I'll leave that to those people.
Firstly, carts come to the surface so they can easily be seen and acquired by boat. Secondly, my argument points out that it’s sort of making it the “easy way out”. There’s no challenge if you want to go mine some gold. Just craft a cart real quick and Ichi-go-to-the-polls. Now, obviously, there’s an important distinction to be made here. What things should be made easier for convenience’s sake, and what things should be made harder for gameplay’s sake? To me, the clear answer is things that are far too tedious to make anything a challenge, such as planting every individual seed in a different part of the field. That takes way too long and would not be fun, whereas buying a wheat sack and throwing them in is work, but it’s reasonable. I think looking for and acquiring a cart is more than reasonable, and makes the game a little bit more challenging.
I disagree for previously made points; you alienate any new/pub players, and open the door for people to cart horde. If you remove the causation, you prevent the end result. But no sense in beating a dead horse.
That has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Again, I disagree for the above mentioned reply.
Well, what I mean is that we should be adding aspects to gameplay, but not going too far. Keeping true to the model and goal of the game is a recipe for success, and if there are things that can be improved by Bannerlord having a better engine I’m all for it, as long as it’s adding more aspects of gameplay rather than less. I just don’t see finding a cart as a monotonous task. Maybe I’m in the minority on that, but I think spending a few minutes to find a cart is a reasonable price to pay in order to fill up a cart and reap the benefits. I don’t think crafting it is enough.
I'd like to see a middle ground in this then. Make craftable carts smaller than carts in PW in terms of storage. Less risk in getting one, less reward for filling it. Like a wheel barrel or something of the like rather than crafting a full horse cart? Not sure, but needs to be a happy medium.
I assumed he meant a few hours by this. Like you won’t see the same carts if you log off and come in the next morning.
Ah, that would make sense. I'd rather see it at, lets say, 2 or 3 hours to degrade from lack of use? Wouldn't risk being lost during peak, but will start to clear out as the servers drop pop for the night.
That’s something that could be good to be craftable, as PW play has proved boats need a major overhaul if they want to be relevant for gameplay.
I agree. I'd personally like to see more than one 'standard' boat if they become craftable. Making naval warfare more worthwhile - trading ships with little cover vs warships (I,e fast long boats, medium speed but sturdy triremes, and slow but heavily protected turtle ships). Probably far fetched, but I'd like to make the island castles more feasible and worth using.
 

Roy1012

Archduke
Can agree with that, but making them craftable would remove the need for that rule in general, which would be preferred.
I don't think having less rules for the sake of having less rules is necessarily a good thing.
As for PW, fine. Lots of people were in clans. But unless you have some sort of legitimate source, please refrain from making sweep percentage stats out of thin air
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhVzY7i2n9v8mrlEzBkiC_Yo37gM0N8Nk Here's 7 hours worth.
- just like the aforementioned 'six week' estimate the Froi went on about that was made.
Never happened lol
PW had a thriving pub community once upon a time, I hope Bannerlord follows suit.
Eh. I don't see it being a good or bad thing one way or another, as long as they are "of consequence", as in, a pub faction fighting in a war. People sitting around in a city square doing absolutely nothing during the big wars is just going to lag the server.
No one was 'fine' with it though.
I spoke with Matthew, he said his guys were fine with it. My guys were, and I know that Beefy's guys were, once the rule was enforced. That's like 70% of the NA community for the past few years, so...
I remember having to handle multiple complaints on your clan in the past concerning cart blocking with one in particular; specifically in Brack castle on the Normandy map.
That was 7 years ago, back in 2015 when we started. That hasn't been the case since.
However, I'll concede the point that I don't remember if you were personally online and leading at the time, but I remember clearly that the Blackfyres held Brack castle and had blocked the gates and flag cap point with carts.
Don't have a recollection of this, but I've been in many wars so...
By no means was it a failure, but it did die due to lack of interest, bad servers, and development ending. It is was only a "failure" of a mod per say in the sense that it died, at least in terms of NA.
I suppose, but the fact it survived longer than most shows it was the greatest of the failures, I suppose.
PW's NA population plummeted for a time after Clarky got DDoSed and his one server (I can't remember which one it was) died off. Think it was celestial that took over after that? But when PK dropped, pops climbed up again, at least for a time. At least that's how I remember how it went down; but I concede that I haven't been active in PW/PK since 2019ish I think, so I'll leave that be. You've been more active than I in recent memory so you're probably correct.
Sure, things ebb and flow. There are more active times than not, but that's just how any game goes.
If you can't cart horde or block castles with undestroyable props, no one can complain about it.
Eh, I suppose. Would be nice to have breakable boundaries like carts in castles, so I suppose that's a plus to it.
Map design does have to do with RDM numbers. Certain maps - depending on commoner spawn - had more RDMs happen. Shattered realm was terrible for commoner spawn - I saw more complaints in that specific area of the map, the spawn below the town watch - than anywhere else on the whole map. Certain maps - PK's version of shattered realms I think it was, with the two tiered castle on the mountain, across from the sand one - was a constant bed for spawn camping/rdm complaints. Same goes for cart blocking on the narrow pathway to the second tier in that same castle. Certain areas on various maps simply were problematic due to how they were designed. Confined spawns that can be blocked off with carts (Commoner spawns specifically) are something I hope we don't see in this new iteration.
Not gonna lie, I have absolutely no clue what Shattered realms is. I suppose you do have an argument regarding the commoner spawn, though having it in a neutral area not near any castles would be great. I hope in regards to spawn blocking you aren't talking about people blocking spawns, as thats necessary and important for the gameplay of siege warfare. I totally agree they shouldn't be allowed to be blocked by carts or horses, though.
If you remove the causation, you prevent the end result.
I suppose that's the best argument for it, which is a strong argument. And thinking it over, I'm a bit more on the fence than I was before. But, IDK, could be the "easy way out".
I'd like to see a middle ground in this then. Make craftable carts smaller than carts in PW in terms of storage. Less risk in getting one, less reward for filling it. Like a wheel barrel or something of the like rather than crafting a full horse cart? Not sure, but needs to be a happy medium.
Should probably have it one way or another. Whichever way that is, should be for all of them.
Ah, that would make sense. I'd rather see it at, lets say, 2 or 3 hours to degrade from lack of use? Wouldn't risk being lost during peak, but will start to clear out as the servers drop pop for the night.
Sounds good to me.
I agree. I'd personally like to see more than one 'standard' boat if they become craftable. Making naval warfare more worthwhile - trading ships with little cover vs warships (I,e fast long boats, medium speed but sturdy triremes, and slow but heavily protected turtle ships). Probably far fetched, but I'd like to make the island castles more feasible and worth using.
I've wanted there to be certain "trade goods" which you can transport and get a profit with at another spot on the map. Like, some kind of silk which you can buy at once castle and sell for a big profit at the next. Completely useless beyond that purpose. It could be awesome to have ships be the "good", like in Age of Empires 2, having trade carts go between markets, you can take a specific ship to another port for a profit. It would be nice to have different varieties of ships, it would be nice for a clan to consider whether they want to attack by boat or by land, and have both be equally viable.
 

Master_

Regular
I don't think having less rules for the sake of having less rules is necessarily a good thing.
Its not just for the sake of having less, its to simplify the rules as to make the game more accessable to new players. But as Bridge stated, not the place to discuss rules.
Here's 7 hours worth.
Good for you. You've missed the point, but to each their own.
Never happened lol
Oh lord, don't say that too loud. Froi might hear you.
Eh. I don't see it being a good or bad thing one way or another, as long as they are "of consequence", as in, a pub faction fighting in a war. People sitting around in a city square doing absolutely nothing during the big wars is just going to lag the server.
Fair enough, but to each their own. If a group of people want to do what Gwae and the Gypsy clan did - sit in a little house and chill as neutrals - then so be it.
I spoke with Matthew, he said his guys were fine with it. My guys were, and I know that Beefy's guys were, once the rule was enforced. That's like 70% of the NA community for the past few years, so...
Good for you. You aren't the one who had to listen to these same guys complain about it on a nightly basis lol.
That was 7 years ago, back in 2015 when we started. That hasn't been the case since.
It was more recent than that - I'm thinking early 2019ish? It's been awhile since I was an HA on a stable server.
Don't have a recollection of this, but I've been in many wars so...
As stated, I'm not sure if you were there or not. All I clearly remember is Blackfyre's doing it, but it's really unimportant. Just put your clan as one I kept an eye on during wars once upon a time.
I suppose, but the fact it survived longer than most shows it was the greatest of the failures, I suppose.

Sure, things ebb and flow. There are more active times than not, but that's just how any game goes.

Eh, I suppose. Would be nice to have breakable boundaries like carts in castles, so I suppose that's a plus to it.

I don't really see the need to respond to all of these individually, we've derailed the thread more than we should have at this point. Moot points. Dropped a few minor things below as well, would rather keep on topic.

Not gonna lie, I have absolutely no clue what Shattered realms is. I suppose you do have an argument regarding the commoner spawn, though having it in a neutral area not near any castles would be great. I hope in regards to spawn blocking you aren't talking about people blocking spawns, as thats necessary and important for the gameplay of siege warfare. I totally agree they shouldn't be allowed to be blocked by carts or horses, though.
Correction; was called Realm Divided, my mistake. Shattered realm was a server. Had to dig through my old files for the actual map name itself. Pretty sure its that one. The one with the big castle in the center over a river, separated by a bridge. I don't have any screenshots of it anymore. But yeah, the spawn was down an alley beside the town watch half of the castle, and every time there was a war, that spawn got camped because 'warzone lol'.

And using players to block is completely fine depending on the situation. I don't see any legitimate reason to human wall to block commoner, outlaw, or neutral factions for ****s and giggles. But yeah, for war, there's never been any issue with that as far as I've ever seen on any server. At least none that I had any involvement in.
I suppose that's the best argument for it, which is a strong argument. And thinking it over, I'm a bit more on the fence than I was before. But, IDK, could be the "easy way out".
Will all depend on how the beta run goes I think. We'll see. But hey, its an idea.
I've wanted there to be certain "trade goods" which you can transport and get a profit with at another spot on the map. Like, some kind of silk which you can buy at once castle and sell for a big profit at the next. Completely useless beyond that purpose. It could be awesome to have ships be the "good", like in Age of Empires 2, having trade carts go between markets, you can take a specific ship to another port for a profit. It would be nice to have different varieties of ships, it would be nice for a clan to consider whether they want to attack by boat or by land, and have both be equally viable.
The trade goods idea sounds interesting. A 'silk road' type of mechanic.

I'm all for ships, they were under developed on PW/PK. Doing a naval assault was pretty well useless on PW most of the time just by how the boats functioned.
 

Roy1012

Archduke
Good for you. You've missed the point, but to each their own.
You asked for proof and I showed you such.
Correction; was called Realm Divided, my mistake. Shattered realm was a server. Had to dig through my old files for the actual map name itself. Pretty sure its that one. The one with the big castle in the center over a river, separated by a bridge. I don't have any screenshots of it anymore. But yeah, the spawn was down an alley beside the town watch half of the castle, and every time there was a war, that spawn got camped because 'warzone lol'.
Putting the commoner spawn in the same place as a usable castle is a recipe for disaster I agree. Since, it has been amended on those maps like that and Great Divide, they put it outside the main castle (In both cases, it was Praven)
 

Master_

Regular
You asked for proof and I showed you such.
'Proof'. You mean you showed you playing with your clan, which isn't a statistic by any degree. Again; waste of time to keep arguing when your own evidence of any such claims is anecdotal, when no such data on the playerbase exists. Especially the playerbase for Bannerlod's version as its not even out yet.
Putting the commoner spawn in the same place as a usable castle is a recipe for disaster I agree. Since, it has been amended on those maps like that and Great Divide, they put it outside the main castle (In both cases, it was Praven)
I don't recall the spawn on Realm Divided being moved outside of the castle; only change I remember was the removal of the Town Watch faction in general. Made that half of the castle useless, and didn't really solve the issue. As for Great Divide, wasn't that the map with the commoner spawn inside of the mine outside of the main town? Was a good spawn - no reason for anyone to be killing fresh spawns.

Also; @Bridge, what types of classes can we expect? Will it be the same as PW/PK or will things be added/removed/changed?
 

Roy1012

Archduke
'Proof'. You mean you showed you playing with your clan, which isn't a statistic by any degree. Again; waste of time to keep arguing when your own evidence of any such claims is anecdotal, when no such data on the playerbase exists. Especially the playerbase for Bannerlod's version as its not even out yet.
I gave you five years of things going on in the mod. What do you want, an academic paper? By that logic, nobody can make any statements about the mod, since I’m pretty sure there’s no peer reviewed thesis papers on pw 🤣
I don't recall the spawn on Realm Divided being moved outside of the castle; only change I remember was the removal of the Town Watch faction in general.
This was done in 2017 or possibly even earlier; that’s the earliest I remember. Just kind of goes to show how out of touch you are with how things have actually been going on PW.
Also; @Bridge, what types of classes can we expect? Will it be the same as PW/PK or will things be added/removed/changed?
I have never once seen anyone take the traveler class. Pls remove
 

Master_

Regular
I gave you five years of things going on in the mod. What do you want, an academic paper? By that logic, nobody can make any statements about the mod, since I’m pretty sure there’s no peer reviewed thesis papers on pw 🤣
What a coincidence - you cant give a statistical amount of players without proper data. That's how statistics work. Especially when we have to include future players, which makes it a literal prediction that - again - you't can't make without pulling a number out of your ass. It's not by my logic, its by, you know, logic in general.
This was done in 2017 or possibly even earlier; that’s the earliest I remember. Just kind of goes to show how out of touch you are with how things have actually been going on PW.
I didn't play the mod as a player, the commoner spawn never affected me. And I while I can't dispute changes being done in 2017 to the map, I can completely say that the old version still ran until 2019. Oasis, I know for a fact, ran it at the end of its life cycle.

But regardless, multiple maps have suffered from poor map design is the point I was making. Maps with certain features cause an uptick in complaints and rule breaking by the nature of the map itself.
I have never once seen anyone take the traveler class. Pls remove
Or at least give it a purpose other than literal trash.
 

Bridge_Troll

Veteran
WBNWVC
Also; @Bridge, what types of classes can we expect? Will it be the same as PW/PK or will things be added/removed/changed?
Tbh haven't put much thought into the class system yet, so will be mostly the same for starters I guess. There was the idea to make a hybrid between training classes and then you can level within that class in a limited way ,loosing this progress when you train another class. But this needs much more thought or we might just stay within a fixed stat<>class system.
 

Faer

Knight
I really like the traveler class for roleplaying, not a warrior but can use sword,can ride faster horse, so roleplaying options are huge.. But, it needs a specific systemical purpose definitely.
 

Roy1012

Archduke
I like what PK did with the Knight class. Made it sort of a mix between of sergeant/man at arms. This sort of change was a step in the right direction. Perhaps something like a sergeant who is more proficient in crossbows but worse in infantry-type combat? It’s use would be niche, like the Footman and lancer classes, but that’s sort of the point, no? Also, a “ranger” class that can use both xbows and bows would be interesting.

Classes specific to types of weaponry is quite nice imo. An infantry class specific to swords vs one for maces/blunt weapons would be interesting, to say the least. But it’s something that needs to be taken slowly (don’t want to introduce too many classes at once and completely **** the meta), and can’t be too drastic. No more than 10-15% change in values between the classes (as in, the swordsman class is only 10-15% better than macemen with swords, and 10-15% worse with maces). At least that’s my two cents.

I really like the traveler class for roleplaying, not a warrior but can use sword,can ride faster horse, so roleplaying options are huge.. But, it needs a specific systemical purpose definitely.
I don’t see the harm in designing rp classes, as long as people actually want to use them and it isn’t at the detriment of combat modding (taking too much time away from it).
 
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