Khuzait Solution

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five bucks

Squire
I just checked out stats again, and I don't understand why the Khan's Guard get to have superior polearm stats to the likes of Druzhinnik Champions and Vanguard Faris. That should be reduced.
Agreed, I wonder if they even had comparison charts up when they were writing up the skills for each unit. I sincerely hope it's all placeholders until the day when weapon skills for AI are changed to really matter.
I think t6= 6 t1s is really boring though. It might not be as realistic, but its more fun for strong units to feel seriously strong. I'd make them more expensive though.
I think T6=6 T1s at once is a good compromise, as there are some people out there (that I've argued with at length) like Antaeus who have the polar opposite opinion to you and think that the current situation is good, and also people like myself and Apocal who think that Swadian Knight levels of performance are too much.

So if there are people who want melee elites to be (un)realistically weak, and people who want melee elites to be superhuman powerhouses, maybe it's best to meet in the middle with something vaguely realistic for the default, and then everyone can mod it to the extremes they want.
Or bardiches.
That would be a really nice thematic link to Vaegirs. Good idea.
 
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DragonSpear

Recruit
Just give the Khan's Guard a shield.. that makes the glaive 1H and the worst melee advantage is gone.
maybe also nerf the polearm skill, they are horse archers and not Elite Cataphracts.
 
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Just give the Khan's Guard a shield.. that makes the glaive 1H and the worst melee advantage is gone.
maybe also nerf the polearm skill, they are horse archers and not Elite Cataphracts.
I don't like the idea of a glaive and shield at all. You might as well just swap out the glaive for a sword and make Khan's Guard more of a deluxe Mameluke.
 
I dunno guys I beat them up really bad with just my party in 1.6.4 and took thier Oduck and made a kingdom and they still haven't counter attacked after a week. I think their cultural malice may actually hurt them if you go really hard against them. Only time will tell but I think they're not as resilient as they used to be.
 

Antaeus

Sergeant at Arms
I dunno guys I beat them up really bad with just my party in 1.6.4 and took thier Oduck and made a kingdom and they still haven't counter attacked after a week. I think their cultural malice may actually hurt them if you go really hard against them. Only time will tell but I think they're not as resilient as they used to be.

I agree. They seem timid to me. They struggle to hold their own cities against the Northern Empire and Sturgia, and I haven't had any trouble rolling them on the field.

Player issue?
 
Keep them as they are for field battles, but give them a negative multiplier for Forrest battles and sieges. And give them a bigger negative culture score to make it harder for them to take over the map. Please do not make them less dangerous in open field.
 

Antaeus

Sergeant at Arms
Keep them as they are for field battles, but give them a negative multiplier for Forrest battles and sieges. And give them a bigger negative culture score to make it harder for them to take over the map. Please do not make them less dangerous in open field.

But they're timid on the map as well. They haven't steamrolled anything in my experience in a year.
 
Keep them as they are for field battles, but give them a negative multiplier for Forrest battles and sieges.
But horse archers (and all archers) are perfectly perfect in trees, because trees do absolutely nothing but annoy the human player! Ai just shoot between them magically while looking into the trees give me a headache.
It's a good idea though, hopefully once they add the terrain they can add some terrain buffs/unbuffs for terrain. I would also be okay with thier being some kind of shielding or -damage for the units positioned inside the trees, from those outside the trees, in live battle.
 
But horse archers (and all archers) are perfectly perfect in trees, because trees do absolutely nothing but annoy the human player! Ai just shoot between them magically while looking into the trees give me a headache.
It's a good idea though, hopefully once they add the terrain they can add some terrain buffs/unbuffs for terrain. I would also be okay with thier being some kind of shielding or -damage for the units positioned inside the trees, from those outside the trees, in live battle.
I think the most difficult part of a proper implementation is having the AI select favorable terrein for the engagement depending of the army composition. I hope it can live up to the expectations, otherwise it is only the player who benefits.

I agree that trees on the battlemap should impact the ai as well. No commander should send cavalry into the woods. And archers should be impacted with reduced vision. Against an enemy with more horsepower and/or archers the AI should find shelter in the woods on the campaingmap and in live battle.
 

Brew

Squire
Trees do provide some cover, as you can see lots of the arrows/bolts stuck on sides of them when you hold alt. Just not as much as warband.
 

S01DIER

I think they should remove bows next, Like really how can a infantry man play when there is arrows flying everywhere
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
But horse archers (and all archers) are perfectly perfect in trees, because trees do absolutely nothing but annoy the human player! Ai just shoot between them magically while looking into the trees give me a headache.
It's a good idea though, hopefully once they add the terrain they can add some terrain buffs/unbuffs for terrain. I would also be okay with thier being some kind of shielding or -damage for the units positioned inside the trees, from those outside the trees, in live battle.
Arrows don't go through trees and the trees do interrupt their lines of sight.

It doesn't matter that much in BL because the forests are laid out so players can actually ride or walk through them, not tangled old growth were you're limited to handful of broken tracks or having the pathfinder beat his way forward with a machete.
 

Thrangor88

Recruit
The real problem is the AI which breaks the formations until the end of the battle for a charge in the middle of the field. Which gives the rider the joy of killing without consequence. The Sturgians should form a formation in the forest, impact the charge, counterattack, and then return to formation. So on, I win this way .... Then the commanders who rush into enemy formations solo ... They lead, he should be back for 80% of the battle.
 
Enough is enough!
Since day 1 of game's launch i've been hearing people talk **** about Khuzait being strong or blah blah blah.
except i never once felt it. not once.

in the beginning when the Horse Archer AI would actually charge and circle your army shooting until they are out of arrows. that was annoying at best. a simple circle formation and hold arrows solved all the problems. But now, they made things easier. the horse archer ai only skirmishes, shoots in round and runs back. doing almost 0 damage to your actual army.
i send a cavalry formation 80% in numbers of the horse archers against them, rinse and repeat, and i'll kill all the enemy HA with a loss of less than 10%. but i usually bring a cavalry force 3x the numbers of the enemy HA, so i can easily crush them with little if any losses.

Khuzait can now steamroll the entire map again.
Do you actually play the game, or do you just sit afk in a town running the time for 100 game years and see if all the factions are balanced still or one takes over?

Once again, Never understood the argument against steamrolling, like what? do people wanna play 500 game year campaigns spanning over 2000 hours? people want to take a town 15 times to finally hold it? Just endless seesaw repeat? like if the player is to "finish" the game at any reasonable amount of time (eg: sub 200 hours), there needs to be a steamrolling mechanic so the player can steamroll the map, instead of having to fight inch by inch tooth and nail for every town and castle and village.
 
I will say though, even though the Khuzait are handle able, it is annoying how many horse archers they can get in a short time. I now fought 4 back to back armies of about 600, each with about 200 horse archers, yes it's almost all t2 tribal horse men, but they're still annoying and no other faction gets so many of thier best troops type all the time.
 

LDominating

Regular
I will say though, even though the Khuzait are handle able, it is annoying how many horse archers they can get in a short time. I now fought 4 back to back armies of about 600, each with about 200 horse archers, yes it's almost all t2 tribal horse men, but they're still annoying and no other faction gets so many of thier best troops type all the time.
Now you see it.
As a Sturgian and S.Empire player,it gets annoying fast.
Do this on multiple playthroughs and see how it feels.
 

Antaeus

Sergeant at Arms
Now the Asari are a faction that can be difficult to fight. But they're also very passive on the map now. With only 2 pathways of advance it seems more passive than the Kuzaits

As I've mentioned... javelin armed cavalry are next level scary. I prefer to use them for this reason. I'm a whole lot more scared of a mass of a hundred Asari cavalry than I am of Kuzaits. I can pass through a whole mass of Kuzaits with a couple of minor arrow wounds... but passing through a clump of Faris... each with a one hit javelin missile... scary stuff.
 
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