Khuzait is unplayable on TDM

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Screenshot says it all. Every other faction has a better starting selection of units, and it isnt even close. This is yet another reason to lower the Spear Infantry back to its original 120g price.

Alternatively, raising the starting gold for all factions up to 130 or even 150 would greatly improve class variety and help newer players actually get to enjoy loadouts other than those equivalent to a singleplayer looter.

 

[Yukmouth++]

Spear inf should've never been increased to 130 in the first place.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Spear inf should've never been increased to 130 in the first place.

I still want to know what part of the khuzait roaster justifies their inf not having 3 lives on max gold

 

[Yukmouth++]

I still want to know what part of the khuzait roaster justifies their inf not having 3 lives on max gold

Spear inf is arguably very very strong for its price, quite honestly one of my favorite class, but when you look at the whole "kit" for Khuzait, they need to be 120.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Spear inf is arguably very very strong for its price, quite honestly one of my favorite class, but when you look at the whole "kit" for Khuzait, they need to be 120.

Believe me, I know

 

[Hans 77]

I don't know, Spear Infantry punches pretty hard for a 130 class (especially considering their recent armor and movement speed buffs).

The 130 price tag works pretty well in Skirmish -considering Spear Inf's pluckiness and the fact you can pull some economic hocus pocus and get a 3rd life as Rabble or Steppe Bow with max gold. The heavy inf of other factions can only go 2 (if that) and done.

The problem with playing Spear Inf in TDM is you have to go up against absolute murderers in the form of menav cav, menavlions, Fianns, Sharpshooters, Cataphracts, and Varyags en masse.

The other factions just have a lot of weight to throw around (in TDM) when it comes to vs. Spear Infantry (who are mostly a cost-effective medium unit).

That said, I actually see Khuzait do pretty well in TDM when people embrace their identity as a cavalry-dominant faction and mount up. The Nomad class is steadily improving and becoming one of the most enjoyable light cav to play as.

 

[Mushbeast]

Khuzait, whilst still pretty bad, probably aren't the worst team for TDM. I've found Sturgia to be at the very bottom of the food chain with their lacklustre archers, fairly expensive heavy infantry, tiny shields and ridiculous short spears. They get chewed up by archers, cav, and most other infantry.

I don't like the meta that Khuzait brings with it's archer and cav spam, the two things that ruin TDM for me, but atleast their horses die quick.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

I don't know, Spear Infantry punches pretty hard for a 130 class (especially considering their recent armor and movement speed buffs).

The 130 price tag works pretty well in Skirmish -considering Spear Inf's pluckiness and the fact you can pull some economic hocus pocus and get a 3rd life as Rabble or Steppe Bow with max gold. The heavy inf of other factions can only go 2 (if that) and done.

The problem with playing Spear Inf in TDM is you have to go up against absolute murderers in the form of menav cav, menavlions, Fianns, Sharpshooters, Cataphracts, and Varyags en masse.

The other factions just have a lot of weight to throw around (in TDM) when it comes to vs. Spear Infantry (who are mostly a cost-effective medium unit).

That said, I actually see Khuzait do pretty well in TDM when people embrace their identity as a cavalry-dominant faction and mount up. The Nomad class is steadily improving and becoming one of the most enjoyable light cav to play as.

Show me the Khuzait win rate in Tournaments up to this point and then type all of this again underneath it.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Khuzait, whilst still pretty bad, probably aren't the worst team for TDM. I've found Sturgia to be at the very bottom of the food chain with their lacklustre archers, fairly expensive heavy infantry, tiny shields and ridiculous short spears. They get chewed up by archers, cav, and most other infantry.

I don't like the meta that Khuzait brings with it's archer and cav spam, the two things that ruin TDM for me, but atleast their horses die quick.

Sturgia has access to 4 classes right out of the game, with all 4 of them being better than the 2 which Khuzait gets with 120 gold.

My main gripe is how miserable Khuzait is when you have default gold, which considering how you can have default gold at up to a 2-1 k-d if you are unlucky, is quite often.

 

[Mushbeast]

Okay yeah, I feel you there. I'd honestly agree with Spear Infantry being slightly cheaper once again. I'd say the only redeeming quality about the rabble is having access to the pike, which is almost essential on the cav-fest that TDM is, but other than that they're pretty useless so it's easy to get stuck with no gold.

Most of the time people always team-stack the opposite side to the Khuzaits or Sturgia because it's simply no fun playing as them. You just don't get the tools to counter problems, and your 'speciality units' ie. archers/horse archers/heavy infantry aren't really that special compared to say Vlandia or Empire that have monstorous infantry, archers and cavalry. The design is just flawed in so many ways...

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Most of the time people always team-stack the opposite side to the Khuzaits or Sturgia because it's simply no fun playing as them. You just don't get the tools to counter problems, and your 'speciality units' ie. archers/horse archers/heavy infantry aren't really that special compared to say Vlandia or Empire that have monstorous infantry, archers and cavalry. The design is just flawed in so many ways...

Agree with this.

As I said in my big Khuzait thread, having Khuazits main "flavor" be horse archers, and then making horse archers really unfun to play as and play against, is bad game design. Another solution needs to be found for the faction. The most positive change has been giving their lancer a lance as long as the other faction's lances, but that only served to make the Khuzait heavy cav on par with the other factions and doesnt set them apart in any way.

Lancer having glaive isnt unique when empire gets the same unit for half the cost.

 

[KSHMR]

You know the problem is that we have a class system that performs different for each gamemode. If we had a normal equipment selection way like in Warband, the standard gold would be the same and you choose what you think is best.

However, this class system forces you into a specific class and decreasing gold because its suitable for TDM or Siege doesnt mean it is suitable for other gamemodes like Skirmish.

In skirmish you got 300 gold and spend it as you like. In TDM you have a starting amount that yo need to increase. This means factions with good lowcost classes are significantyly stronger. However, in TDM once you get CAv. You **** everyone by just x lancing around the map 24/7. (AKA-> infinite gold)

This is likely never going to be entirely playable unless we get a mod that lets us pick equipment for a standard starting amount of gold.

 

[jon01]

I always play as Khuzait on TDM just so I don't have to face Horse Archers, and because Spear Infantry is pretty close to an optimal build for me while not costing much.

 

[hoonii]

Idk you spawn rabble>when you die you get 130 gold=nomad spawn or keep spamming rabble till you get glaive cav, that is why there is so many light cav for Khuzait in tdm because your second spawn is light cav.

 

[Mushbeast]

Idk you spawn rabble>when you die you get 130 gold=nomad spawn or keep spamming rabble till you get glaive cav, that is why there is so many light cav for Khuzait in tdm because your second spawn is light cav.

I don't like that design philosophy one bit myself, I prefer to play infantry all the time and this just adds to the frustration of cavalry spam in TDM. When prices for cavalry are raised this will become a big issue for Khuzait as well.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Idk you spawn rabble>when you die you get 130 gold=nomad spawn or keep spamming rabble till you get glaive cav, that is why there is so many light cav for Khuzait in tdm because your second spawn is light cav.

Forcing players to play as the undisputed worst class in the game in order to optimally built toward better classes is AWFUL game design

“our mechanics require that you have a bad time before you are allowed to have a good time.” What? No?

That’s a design philosophy that you see in total war or other strategy games, but what Taleworlds completely fails to consider is that those bad units in strategy games come with the benefit of being cheaper so you can spam them out and get more of them...you can’t play as multiple characters at once in a PvP game like this.

 

[hoonii]

Forcing players to play as the undisputed worst class in the game in order to optimally built toward better classes is AWFUL game design

All roads lead to the same question: Why in the hell khuzait spear infantry was nerfed by making its cost 130 instead of 120?????

 

[flashn00b]

If TaleWorlds insists on keeping the 130 cost for the Spear Infantry, I'd suggest that the Eastern Spear and Eastern Long Spear should be swingable for 23 and 18 blunt damage respectively. At the very least, this should improve the Spear Infantry's ability to duel in large open areas.

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

i hope they add a khuzait 2h infantry class,
in tdm 2 handers usually dominate and having a faction without a infantry 2 hander dooms you to fight with a 1 hander sword against other factions higher movement speed 2handers,
which encourages people to just play cavalry and archer, and frustratingly annoying horse archer which is more annoying to play against unless it is in a strategic long term battle (battle mode when?) where you can out wait their arrow supply

 

[KSHMR]

i hope they add a khuzait 2h infantry class,
in tdm 2 handers usually dominate and having a faction without a infantry 2 hander dooms you to fight with a 1 hander sword against other factions higher movement speed 2handers,
which encourages people to just play cavalry and archer, and frustratingly annoying horse archer which is more annoying to play against unless it is in a strategic long term battle (battle mode when?) where you can out wait their arrow supply

People playing as Khuzait are encouraged to play cavalry because Khuzait is a cavalry faction, sounds logical right?