Khuzait horse archers are OP AF

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gaffa79

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They are accurate and in numbers just is a mower.

What is a good match up to hold out or win against large amount of them?!
 
Kinda sux when get captured, escape and build up ****ty army and same horse archers get you - so far 3 times in a row. !
 
You could try lots of shield soldiers in circle formation with a bunch of archers in square formation in the middle. Hopefully the shields will block enough arrows for your archers to pick off a few enemies, then do a final charge. Or get a helluva lot of crossbows, they tend to one-hit-kill the less armoured archer cavalry.

But yeah, I just never, ever messed with the kerghit in MB 1 because those horse archers are way hardcore.
 
Well, there are several things you can do
For starters, if you have strong economy and access to imperial recruits, have some time to level up an army and have horses, you can get a lot of Imperial Bucellarii who are formidable counterparts to the Khuzait mounted archers. They are basically Palatine Guards on horses - well armored, have good bows, carry two quivers and a sword, so even though their stats are lower than stats of Khuzaits, they are more or less on par with them.
If you have your own fief or disciplinarian perk, you can also go hunt forest bandits, recruit and convert them into Battanian Cyborg Champs. You probably already know what these beasts can do. As far as infantry screen goes, you don't want too many of melee troops, it's not going to help much, and you want some shields and good armor in it for your guys to survive, so imperials in a shield wall are the way to go. Or heavy cavalry if you are rich. Also, mounted archers aren't so great in sieges, they resolve them no problem, but they aren't so scary in actual battle, so make sure you have enough people in your garrison, especially archers and crossbowmen, and feel free to defend there leading your men. Or just lead the attack and siege THEM. Sure, they have a lot of archers, but that doesn't differ much from regular assault. Might also want to ravage their villages which produce horses to delay their recovery even further if you can't get their land with siege.
The weakest point of nomads is they REALLY need their horses. Horses allow them to blitzkrieg like it's going out of fashion, but it also makes them weaker in a war of attrition it you concentrate on that. They have a lot of horses to begin with and they produce a lot, but eventually they will just run out of them, their riders will deteriorate in quality and more of their people will go on foot because unlike Warband, lords DO have to get actual recruits and find horses in Bannerlord. You want to deny them from that and either gradually grind their forces down or claim several decisive victories to deplete their reserves. And when you'll see armies of some random foot guys instead of mounted forces they used to have, you'll know you are winning.
 
You could try lots of shield soldiers in circle formation with a bunch of archers in square formation in the middle. Hopefully the shields will block enough arrows for your archers to pick off a few enemies, then do a final charge. Or get a helluva lot of crossbows, they tend to one-hit-kill the less armoured archer cavalry.

But yeah, I just never, ever messed with the kerghit in MB 1 because those horse archers are way hardcore.


I shall keep trying combos to figure it out thanks for the tip.
 
I use a fairly balanced army and I found having Battanian archers combined with charging my calvary when they get close is effective. I have an infantry line to shield my archers and also my own cavalry archers.
 
You could try lots of shield soldiers in circle formation with a bunch of archers in square formation in the middle. Hopefully the shields will block enough arrows for your archers to pick off a few enemies, then do a final charge. Or get a helluva lot of crossbows, they tend to one-hit-kill the less armoured archer cavalry.

But yeah, I just never, ever messed with the kerghit in MB 1 because those horse archers are way hardcore.

AI is smart enough to hit circle troops in their backs or PWN archers. Circle will, however, prevent archers from fighting back effectively.
And it isn't really needed at all, because horse archers aren't really scary while charging, unless they have a hoard of khan guards.
Crossbowmen... Too long reload rate for a field battle, IMO. Archers are twice as fast and volume of arrows really matters. Crossbows will work wonders in sieges where they are going to have some time and will be able to use their shields in melee, but I doubt they will work better than good archers out there.
 
I use a fairly balanced army and I found having Battanian archers combined with charging my calvary when they get close is effective. I have an infantry line to shield my archers and also my own cavalry archers.
Infantry doesn't actually shield your archers, they are basically decoys.
 
Yes, yes they are. Massed archer fire should take them out, but they're incredibly tanky so they can just sit there and casually wipe out archers without a sweat. Then in sieges they are some of the best defenders and attackers because they're ranged. They need a huge nerf.
 
Yes, yes they are. Massed archer fire should take them out, but they're incredibly tanky so they can just sit there and casually wipe out archers without a sweat. Then in sieges they are some of the best defenders and attackers because they're ranged. They need a huge nerf.
Not as good as crossbowmen on defense, who always hide behind battlements on reload, their reload rate doesn't matter as much and they have shields to help them in melee. And for attacks, unless my archers are battanian cyborg champs and enemy battlements are destroyed, heavy infantry actually works much better even with current bugged pathfinding.
 
Infantry doesn't actually shield your archers, they are basically decoys.
Sure, but they're decoys with shields and throwing weapons. So while the horse archers shoot at my tanky infantry and fight with my calvary, they get hit with throwing weapons and heavy archer fire. I also try to position my horse archers to the side so as to get some cross fire going.
 
It's not op, it just functions, unlike cavalry and infantry.
I'm playing Khergits and my allies always have only like 30% or less HA (and even less actual heavy HA) so I don't know what you're worried about.
I've never seen the AI make a full cav or H,A or even close, army. If you've made OP HA army... well you know what you did.
HA is good against AI because AI always charges their worthless infantry at you, then tries to get in some formation (and never does).

Archers are the hardest for HA. One battle the AI archers accidentally got on the little bridge that on some maps and it was the longest I ever seen archers live and many good horses killed and a few HA too.

The main thing I see is that HA ai does it's job, it moves and shoots, or just shoots. I see infantry constantly raising and lowering it's shields, getting punked for it.
I see Cav running all around Helen Keller style and getting nothing done unless you hold their hand.
 
They are very good in flat open ground, and much less effective in cramped areas.

They will always try to circle around in a counter-clockwise direction. You can use this to your advantage since you know where they are going to go most of the time. Of course they are pretty slippery but they are less dangerous when their group is broken up. Cavalry won't kill them very well but they can distract them and break them up enough for your archers to pick them off.
 
You just noob againts them. GIT GOOD noob. Terrain , Formation. Its all about stratergy, if you cant Deal with them dont fight them Pfttt
 
You are not the first person to be troubled by horse archers....Genghis Khan conquered half the world with horse archers and nobody managed to come up with a good counter. The only thing that stopped him was his own death...otherwise the other half of the world would have been his as well.

Back to your problem, my solution is to try to pick terrain where they will have difficulty maneuvering, have a lot of my own my archers (spread out formation), infantry in shield wall, wait until they start to weave back and forth and hit them with cavalry quickly then withdraw, then hit them again.

Their advantage is their mobility, only terrain can help you there but picking a spot to defend where they can't circle you and move too well, like a narrow pass or hill. Let your archers do their thing and the cavalry will hopefully do the rest. Infantry are best kept away from them and only use them as a lure.
 
Repost from steam forums about Khuzait HA:
1) Very easy to train since they go from recruit to a mounted archer immediately and barely take any losses from there
2) Hills and forests have very little effect on them
3) Heavy archer are really well armored and kick ass in melee, loosing only to high tier melee oriented soldiers, which they can pepper with arrow before engaging
4) No tactics needed, F6 and forget about them
5) They decimate garrison from distance in sieges
6) Most of the infantry is brain-dead when it comes to using shields for cover. Like, increasing range to shieldwall, forces HA to shoot in arch and now arrows are hitting heads because AI doesn't cover faces with shields
7) Heavy cavalry which costs roughly the same money to raise is rather not very effective against them:
a) because AI is brained when using spear outside of direct charge
b) because they often charge while chasing on slower horses or having no momentum
c) the more of them are in the chase, the more they get peppered with arrows
d) Kherjits are often use glavier type of weapon as polearm, not a spear, the damage output when fighting mounted with no momentum is about 6-7 times higher :cool:
Yes, you can counter them by using tactics and specific unit composition but you don't have to do that against any other enemy, except Forest Bandits

A lot of the problems is not them being OP because "stats" but certain mechanics of the game just not working well. They don't need nerf, the game needs to be fixed in a number of other places first. If AI can cover their faces when making shield wall, if cavalry can attack and defend properly when they loose momentum, then situation might be very different.
The only thing I would argue is regarding their bows. Not only bows in Bannerlord are weaker only to javelins, the bows that can be used on horseback are only marginally weaker to longbows and etc. In Warband, the best bow had a piercing damage at the median of all weapons and starting bows where at the lower end. I assume that Khuzait heavy archers are using Steppe War Bow, which is 66 pierce damage. Comparing this to other weapons, I have to conclude that these bows are at the higher end of piercing damage among all weapons (besides javelins). This doesn't cover noble HA, who's weapons are probably in 80 piercing range as it is on Noble Bow.
 
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