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Khuzait bankruptcy problem

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Zorion_no

Veteran
SO guys with weak/poor Khuzaits: if you siege Chakaind and sit there building all the siege gear and starving them, how many armies show up to fight you? 1? None? 4 or 5 in a row? I ask because to me the concept of poor AI doesn't matter if they still make endless armies. I haven't fought the khuzait since 1.6.4/5 but then they were capable of sending consecutive armies.
Basically what the other guy said.

The problem is that as soon as they are defeated/beaten up from NE at the start, they are so poor they cant muster big enough parties with their lords to have 40% or more.
Parties below the 40% cant join armies.

So basically in my play now 2nd play in 1.70 they have again come to the point of 4 holdings, 4 clans left in the kingdome, including King.
And its 1000-1500 days into the game.

I'm starting to lean towards that its many factors.
in 1v1 if you want to put it that way, the armies/units of Khuzait is good.
They are perhaps abit weaker overall, but they counter that with the speed bonus, so they can outrun most still.

I'm starting to see a pattern where its actually more that something is "wrong" with the NE they are way to powerful.

Seriously they where at war with 3 factions (Includeing the one I was part of, and until I made a "mop up army" to take out their loose lords etc, they where winning all the time).
Constantly you saw lord x from Western Empire been caught, then followed by Southern Empire and Sturgia(my faction).

Since Khuzait start war with NE I'm thinking its more to do with that poor economy mixed with "too powerful NE" set them up for a recipe.
Not to mention that Aserai and SE will start ganking them, and takeing land on top of it.

Trade is also somewhat mared with the endless hordes of steppebandits, same for villagers.

When Khuzait are at peace you still see all the time "lord" was taken by bandits etc. they cant even get around to collect troops before they get jumped by the throng of bandits.

that said if you remove the NE out of the equiation, it still seem that they are suffering from being so horribly poor, their towns being 3,5 k prosperity so not that "supermuch in taxes" While the NE start with several 5-7K which is double the amount of taxes etc.

I also see at start that almost always one of the SE clans join NE (without any war between them etc)(this prolly dont help either).

I've very rarely seen merc-clan name joins Khuzait.
On the other hand I see merc-clans join NE all the time..

I was vocal about nerfing the Khuzait back in time, but atm unless they are joined by the player, they are "doomed" in all my plays, and my faction isnt at war with them "that much either".
We've only taken 1 city + 3 castles in total.
 

Dogacan

Regular
WB
I was vocal about nerfing the Khuzait back in time, but atm unless they are joined by the player, they are "doomed" in all my plays, and my faction isnt at war with them "that much either".
We've only taken 1 city + 3 castles in total.
As someone who has played Khergit/Khuzait for a very long time I have to agree that they are only really strong when the player joins their kingdom. It's so easy to imprison nearly the entire enemy kingdom as the player and have other lords do the "dirty work". As much as I love playing whilst using the classic Mongol tactic (mass rain of arrows into horse charges), it is currently too powerful. The fact that Khuzait noble T4 units will absolutely obliterate any non-Khuzait unit doesn't sit right with me. Polearms that can swing are currently devastating, when you add a charge bonus to that damage you will just oneshot anything that moves. In all of my Khuzait playthroughs I barely lose troops if I fight on favourable terrain, which you should be able to do since your entire army can easily consist of only mounted troops. IMO a good change would be to swap the Kheshig's (Steppe War) bow and the Khan's Guard's (Steppe Recurve) bow, give them piercing arrows whilst significantly reducing the damage output with polearm swings on horseback. I'm sure this has been debated before, haven't been on the forum for a long time. :mrgreen:
 

Antaeus

Sergeant at Arms
I have to admit... in my current campaign, after the initial period, the Kuzaits offered no real opposition, so I think the thread is onto something.

I started out owning Husn Fulq due to rebellion, and I've managed to conquer all Kuzait cities with my 4 parties. I haven't even gathered armies because my parties are all 200+ and mine is nearly 400. When they gather armies their armies are 2-300 strong made up of parties of 40 or so.

And I agree, there's something funny up. Because I've uplifted some new clans as I've gone, and bribed over a couple of others... and all their parties are similar in size - only my parties are larger than 80 and even owning 4 cities, I still have to war constantly to not go bankrupt.

My 370 strong party of Kuzait high tier and noble troops is basically god mode. But my uplifted clans are struggling to hold parties of 40 recruits together, that get stomped by imperial parties unless they're in an army. So I'm now left running from top to bottom of the map putting out fires. I think I'm going to have to start taking empire cities just to bring in some money.
 
As someone who has played Khergit/Khuzait for a very long time I have to agree that they are only really strong when the player joins their kingdom. It's so easy to imprison nearly the entire enemy kingdom as the player and have other lords do the "dirty work". As much as I love playing whilst using the classic Mongol tactic (mass rain of arrows into horse charges), it is currently too powerful. The fact that Khuzait noble T4 units will absolutely obliterate any non-Khuzait unit doesn't sit right with me. Polearms that can swing are currently devastating, when you add a charge bonus to that damage you will just oneshot anything that moves. In all of my Khuzait playthroughs I barely lose troops if I fight on favourable terrain, which you should be able to do since your entire army can easily consist of only mounted troops. IMO a good change would be to swap the Kheshig's (Steppe War) bow and the Khan's Guard's (Steppe Recurve) bow, give them piercing arrows whilst significantly reducing the damage output with polearm swings on horseback. I'm sure this has been debated before, haven't been on the forum for a long time. :mrgreen:
You understand this is the only advantage they get? They suck at sieges and fighting on any terrain that isn't clear of obstacles.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
This topic is fake news, Khuzait still make endless armies in 1.7. It doesn't matter if the encyclopedia says they're all poor or average you still have to fight bull**** armies forever. I don't think the game punishes the AI for anything related to money at all. Oh no money do troops desert NO, does garrison desert NO. Oh how many troops does a poor clan have ALL OF THEM. Nothing matter for the AI. Nothing matters at all except if you have to fight or not, as long as they still make an army cinstantly and you have to fight it over and over nothing else matters.
LE1A5.jpg
 

Dogacan

Regular
WB
You understand this is the only advantage they get? They suck at sieges and fighting on any terrain that isn't clear of obstacles.
They don't suck in any fights IMO, if your goal is to siege with your army you need to build your army appropriately. Khan's Guard are still heavily armored top tier archers in sieges. Obviously you will want a sizable amount of shielded infantry, which you can recruit from anywhere. The difference between shielded infantry in the current version is not that big, their job is mostly to block projectiles anyways. My point is that they don't have to siege if you just want to join the Khuzait kingdom and stay there. The AI actually does a fine job sieging if you don't touch the pool of parties that are available to build an army with. I don't care what you put against a Khan's Guard charge it will die, even if the layout is horrible you can still charge and easily win the fight. I have quite literally rounded up 200 Khan's Guard and took entire kingdoms with that stack of units without going back to recruit more units. Sure you can do the same with Fian Champions but the ease in which you can kill entire kingdoms will be much, much more tedious. It's too time consuming to chase parties with a size of 150-200 when you have 125+ fian champions and 75 infantry/mounted units. If you build your character accordingly by going for the map movement enhancing perks and a full Khan's Guard army the game becomes a cake walk currently.
 
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