Khuzaits don't need no nerf. You need to fix the battle ai FIRST. How are we supposed to make any sort of judgement on how the kingdom is doing when soldiers don't even use shields?
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Khuzait are op
- 主题发起人 durbal
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durbal
Sergeant
Every faction is easy to beat on the battlefield in SP. That doesn't make the game balanced.
Tankred787
Recruit
Hello! Posted this reply on the issue on Reddit not so long ago, so will share it there.
So, infantry archers is basically a hard counter to their mounted counterparts.
Personally, I'm glad that mounted archers can finally do their job properly (and that, mind you, said a guy that used no mounted troops whatsoever from the beginning of the game). They was bad in Warband, unless dismounted and used as a regular archers. And I'm also glad that there is now some use to more advanced tactics and troop positioning.
So, infantry archers is basically a hard counter to their mounted counterparts.
Personally, I'm glad that mounted archers can finally do their job properly (and that, mind you, said a guy that used no mounted troops whatsoever from the beginning of the game). They was bad in Warband, unless dismounted and used as a regular archers. And I'm also glad that there is now some use to more advanced tactics and troop positioning.
LDominating
Regular
I'm gonna leave my 2 cents here.
Khuzaits are busted broken,anyone who says otherwise probably hasn't played against them.
Spamming Archers isn't gonna work,because only Tier 4 and 5 Imp/Aserai can do something effective against them,and Aserai troop cycle tree is just...trash at it's best,they finally get their ACTUAL ranged units at T4,this is unacceptable,devs solve Aserai and give them some actual armor,their highest tier shoes are a T3 dropped from looters.
Spamming Crossbowmen works,but not always since devs decided to nerf Sergeants(they have lower armor than the Palantines as of 1.5.1) to oblivion but yet Khuzait Raiders(T3) still maintains a Tier 6 bow,for some ungodly reason.
And NO!They don't run of arrows,you'll run out of troops before they lose their 48 arrows.
The only HA that runs out of arrows is actual BALANCED Mameluke Cavalry,since they use a shield in exchange for a set of arrows.
As they previously stated,the Lords don't NEED horses to actually upgrade their troops into cavalry,this needs a fix asap.
Going after their villages should be the way to beat steppe people at their own game,without their horses they are very frail,unless it's Darkhan that got a super steroid buff and now rivals the Legionar and Veteran Warrior in terms of armor,why?!
Another fact is that Horse Archers should have a high disadvantage when it comes to range,I believe that steppe bows had very small range because of their small sizes and they couldn't equip bigger bows because it would interfere with their riding.
The things they could for players is to buff Sturgian,Aserai and Imperial Archers,give lower tiers archers longbow (2&3)and T4/5 Sturgians Archers give them the Western Bow(T5 Longbow)or a Woodland Longbow(same bow used by Battanian Fians),don't Vaegirs use in M&B WB longbows?
Same goes for Aserai Tribesman,to get a bow,Steppe Bow tol be specific,Skirmisher gets Longbow,Aserai Archer gets Nomadic Longbow and Aserai Veteran Archer gets the T6 longbow that has nomadic something,I don't know their names.
And in battle,when the horse dies the rider should suffer damage I mean you faceplant that land..it's gonna hurt.I don't know about you,but hitting a tree with a galloping horse at 30mph tends to break some bones.
I think there's no opposition to these changes,other by the quadrillions of Genghis Khans that'll be afraid their "REALISTIC" games will actually become Hard for once.
For campaign Autoresolve,nothing.Cavalry still maintains it's buffs in open battles,BUUUUUUT!!!
Horses now also ask for food,I don't think horses eat only grass from wherever they can,or if not food,higher wages for mounter troops,you gotta take care of that horse,gonna cost you more,horsie boah.
This combined with a few diplomatic changes that'll make expanding factions to attract aggresivness from other factions in order to reduce snowballing,otherwise we can always delete Khuzait,Aliens abducted them to find the cure for cancer,I don't know... just get them off my back.
Khuzaits are busted broken,anyone who says otherwise probably hasn't played against them.
Spamming Archers isn't gonna work,because only Tier 4 and 5 Imp/Aserai can do something effective against them,and Aserai troop cycle tree is just...trash at it's best,they finally get their ACTUAL ranged units at T4,this is unacceptable,devs solve Aserai and give them some actual armor,their highest tier shoes are a T3 dropped from looters.
Spamming Crossbowmen works,but not always since devs decided to nerf Sergeants(they have lower armor than the Palantines as of 1.5.1) to oblivion but yet Khuzait Raiders(T3) still maintains a Tier 6 bow,for some ungodly reason.
And NO!They don't run of arrows,you'll run out of troops before they lose their 48 arrows.
The only HA that runs out of arrows is actual BALANCED Mameluke Cavalry,since they use a shield in exchange for a set of arrows.
As they previously stated,the Lords don't NEED horses to actually upgrade their troops into cavalry,this needs a fix asap.
Going after their villages should be the way to beat steppe people at their own game,without their horses they are very frail,unless it's Darkhan that got a super steroid buff and now rivals the Legionar and Veteran Warrior in terms of armor,why?!
Another fact is that Horse Archers should have a high disadvantage when it comes to range,I believe that steppe bows had very small range because of their small sizes and they couldn't equip bigger bows because it would interfere with their riding.
The things they could for players is to buff Sturgian,Aserai and Imperial Archers,give lower tiers archers longbow (2&3)and T4/5 Sturgians Archers give them the Western Bow(T5 Longbow)or a Woodland Longbow(same bow used by Battanian Fians),don't Vaegirs use in M&B WB longbows?
Same goes for Aserai Tribesman,to get a bow,Steppe Bow tol be specific,Skirmisher gets Longbow,Aserai Archer gets Nomadic Longbow and Aserai Veteran Archer gets the T6 longbow that has nomadic something,I don't know their names.
And in battle,when the horse dies the rider should suffer damage I mean you faceplant that land..it's gonna hurt.I don't know about you,but hitting a tree with a galloping horse at 30mph tends to break some bones.
I think there's no opposition to these changes,other by the quadrillions of Genghis Khans that'll be afraid their "REALISTIC" games will actually become Hard for once.
For campaign Autoresolve,nothing.Cavalry still maintains it's buffs in open battles,BUUUUUUT!!!
Horses now also ask for food,I don't think horses eat only grass from wherever they can,or if not food,higher wages for mounter troops,you gotta take care of that horse,gonna cost you more,horsie boah.
This combined with a few diplomatic changes that'll make expanding factions to attract aggresivness from other factions in order to reduce snowballing,otherwise we can always delete Khuzait,Aliens abducted them to find the cure for cancer,I don't know... just get them off my back.
Dr-Shinobi
They are not OP on the battlefield! On the map however its another story! which now with second eyes and thoughts are actually cooling down a little by little on every version
And heres another one. Its Battania but an mercenary lord based from Khuz. AI carried and saved my ass in this one bigtime..It was an miracle ive never experienced again so far for sure....And i must add that they are both in Challenge/Hardcore mode so my AI have no buffs
Khuz can be hard to meet on the battlefield at times but they are certainly not Op there in my opinion but balanced
Re:
Found another golden moment in my life serving the Empire Legion having a worthy brawl with the Khuzs
And heres another one. Its Battania but an mercenary lord based from Khuz. AI carried and saved my ass in this one bigtime..It was an miracle ive never experienced again so far for sure....And i must add that they are both in Challenge/Hardcore mode so my AI have no buffs
Khuz can be hard to meet on the battlefield at times but they are certainly not Op there in my opinion but balanced
Re:
Found another golden moment in my life serving the Empire Legion having a worthy brawl with the Khuzs
最后编辑:
They're AI, they are just walking money bags that give you prisoners to recruit
Beat them up, take their fiefs take their lunch money. No faction to back me up, all on my own.
Edit: WTF why do they both have the exact same dudes behind them lol
Khuzait marksman is a great unit, forest bandits are good and fian champions are probably the best unit in the game. If you position a archer line well they will absolutely destroy an equal or lesser sized HA formation (and anything else), not to mention if you back them up with your own HA formation to flank.
Really, infantry and Cav just suck and if you use them as your main force you're going to have a bad time. Inf is good in SW as defense in front of Archers and HA. Cav you can kinda do the same thing with. Both take heavy losses on attack( not standing in SW) and Cav often fails to connect it's attacks.
The Khuzait problem is all with AI on AI stuff, not with player versus AI. It is annoying how they come back with 200 t2 HA though, I admit it, but it's okay.
Dr-Shinobi
Never seen that playing all the versions and 800+ hours but its good to hear that theres varieties out there
bearmans
Recruit
It's actually not khuzaits in battle that bothers me, it's khuzaits on the campaign map. It just seems insane that their armies end up passively faster than the others, they get to pick and choose their battles just via the way the general AI works.
I still haven't had a game where khuzait the faction wasn't doing very well...
I still haven't had a game where khuzait the faction wasn't doing very well...
TheShermanator
Sergeant
Yes, this. While horse archers are good in battle, a decent player with archers and cav can ultimately deal with them in that arena. The problem is that, at the macro campaign level, AI to AI, they consistently beat down other factions.
LDominating
Regular
I'm so sad players take defense of Khuzaits just based on preference and not gameplay wise,we get it dude,you cringe Genghis Khan into a save file trying to Throat Sing,stay in line,we all did play Khuzait and broke our vocal cords trying to Throat Sing...also..it isn't hard pressing F1+F3
10/10 times Khuzait take over the map,no DOUBTS,no made up conspiracy w/e,it's a fact that you know.
YES!You can beat them!Yes you will do so,I took 2 of their cities and 4 castles by myself on realistic before I deleted my save file because Sturgia and NE got deleted AGAIN.
But this doesn't mean I had a good time fighting them,nobody does,it isn't fun fighting against them because they are BROKEN in all matters.
Yes use Archers blah blah blah more of your "TIPS" were already employed.
Yes dudes,everyone uses Archers against Horse Archers,your tips are useless and not helpful.
Nobody used Shock Infantry against them,I guarantee...maybe the AI.
And the dude with the 2 videos,my dude,I'll point you the error of your ways.
Firstly,you fought a Vlandian Lord that switched to Khuzait,no doubt Khuzait conquered the map in your gameplay to make such a distant lord to switch sides on the other side of the world,but you'd still take their defence,really sad.
Secondly,you didn't fight any HA,you fought Melee Cavalry which has been scientifically proven to suck ass.
Thirdly,you didn't even comand your battles,you just F6 them?!
Fourth,you lost so many troops it;s hard to call that a WIN,especially against melee cavalry,omg.
Here's the REAL problem,once you look past your save where you beat Monchug's army of Nomads and proceeded to come here and say "THEY ARENT HARD TO BEAT" and dive deep with your eyes into their units' eqiupment,you might think the devs smoked something before putting that on there.
Alright,let me educate you my Khuzait's brain players.
Khuzait Raider(T3 HA)has better Armor and Bow and more Arrows than the easiest accesible T3 and T4 archers from Imperial lands,which are the only archers that MIGHT stand up to them,press N and check it yourself.
Not only that but T4 KHA have actually better armor and BOWS than all T4 ranged units,with the exception of B. Heroes,but they are noble troops so we don't count them.
Darkhans rivals and sometimes beats the Legionaries,Veteran Warriors and Oathsworn in either one of the 3 elements,weapon,armor or throwable.
Quite the achieved unit that goes through better tiers than Sturgia and Batttania does,because yea...BALANCED Khuzaits are BALANCED.
Their Melee Cavalry is almost as good as Vlandian ones.almost..1 unit that might lose in a contest for the better type of cavalry,so yay.
Their foot archers are 2nd best base archers in the game,they are below Palantines in terms of Bow and Armor but better Atlethics and more Arrows,but they beat Aserai Master Archer in all terms,armor,bows and arrows.
Why are you arguing after I put these 4 elements of Khuzait needing desperate nerfs.
-Taking over the map in less than 2 years.
-Having the most powerful units in High and Low tiers.
-Beign hard to beat due to lack of counterplay.
-Having a lot of Clans with multiple parties,no matter how many times you beat them they just keep coming back.
10/10 times Khuzait take over the map,no DOUBTS,no made up conspiracy w/e,it's a fact that you know.
YES!You can beat them!Yes you will do so,I took 2 of their cities and 4 castles by myself on realistic before I deleted my save file because Sturgia and NE got deleted AGAIN.
But this doesn't mean I had a good time fighting them,nobody does,it isn't fun fighting against them because they are BROKEN in all matters.
Yes use Archers blah blah blah more of your "TIPS" were already employed.
Yes dudes,everyone uses Archers against Horse Archers,your tips are useless and not helpful.
Nobody used Shock Infantry against them,I guarantee...maybe the AI.
And the dude with the 2 videos,my dude,I'll point you the error of your ways.
Firstly,you fought a Vlandian Lord that switched to Khuzait,no doubt Khuzait conquered the map in your gameplay to make such a distant lord to switch sides on the other side of the world,but you'd still take their defence,really sad.
Secondly,you didn't fight any HA,you fought Melee Cavalry which has been scientifically proven to suck ass.
Thirdly,you didn't even comand your battles,you just F6 them?!
Fourth,you lost so many troops it;s hard to call that a WIN,especially against melee cavalry,omg.
Here's the REAL problem,once you look past your save where you beat Monchug's army of Nomads and proceeded to come here and say "THEY ARENT HARD TO BEAT" and dive deep with your eyes into their units' eqiupment,you might think the devs smoked something before putting that on there.
Alright,let me educate you my Khuzait's brain players.
Khuzait Raider(T3 HA)has better Armor and Bow and more Arrows than the easiest accesible T3 and T4 archers from Imperial lands,which are the only archers that MIGHT stand up to them,press N and check it yourself.
Not only that but T4 KHA have actually better armor and BOWS than all T4 ranged units,with the exception of B. Heroes,but they are noble troops so we don't count them.
Darkhans rivals and sometimes beats the Legionaries,Veteran Warriors and Oathsworn in either one of the 3 elements,weapon,armor or throwable.
Quite the achieved unit that goes through better tiers than Sturgia and Batttania does,because yea...BALANCED Khuzaits are BALANCED.
Their Melee Cavalry is almost as good as Vlandian ones.almost..1 unit that might lose in a contest for the better type of cavalry,so yay.
Their foot archers are 2nd best base archers in the game,they are below Palantines in terms of Bow and Armor but better Atlethics and more Arrows,but they beat Aserai Master Archer in all terms,armor,bows and arrows.
Why are you arguing after I put these 4 elements of Khuzait needing desperate nerfs.
-Taking over the map in less than 2 years.
-Having the most powerful units in High and Low tiers.
-Beign hard to beat due to lack of counterplay.
-Having a lot of Clans with multiple parties,no matter how many times you beat them they just keep coming back.
I'm sorry you're sad, guess you'll have to wait for the balance updates like everyone else.
not in my games lol
They rarely have bushwakers and never seen a fian on them
I don't think "wait for the horse archer to get here and shoot them all" is hard...
Have you played with death enabled? They don't come back when they die in battle, and no relation loss
Don't worry I'm sure the updates coming
Soon ? ? ?
Maximum997
Squire
Horse archers are still the best army against a player. Infantry of archer heavy armies just dont have any chance against a player. They cant do almost any damage
I am playing as Sturgia. And i never ever help my armies. Becouse they perform on actual battles so badly against Khuzaits that autoresolve is actualy better.
If you're actually using archers as your counter, that explains why you seem to be having a uniquely bad time.
There is no ****ing way.
Dr-Shinobi
We must be playing different games then because im not having problems at the battlefield without touching the AI. Would it happen that we would loose at times?...yes but as it should
最后编辑:
When facing Khuzait try these tactics
-Put your archers up against any large boulders/rocks or a group of trees or some other barrier even putting yourself on one side of a river can make a difference. If need put yourself up on the tallest hill you can reach or at even move to the edge of the map .
-Have your infantry go into shield wall and stay put. They should be about 20-30 feet in front of your archers so they can still shoot.
-Have your archers spread out, do not put them into a circle or square unless most of the opponents are actually cavalry.
-Use F6 command for your cavalry or have them follow you and just defend against the HA. Don't chase them across the field, just chase them away.
-If you have horse archers use F6 command on them but make sure they don't stray off and hunt infantry or foot archers so keep an eye on them. If you're worried about keeping an eye on them and cav then have them both follow you.
Vlandian crossbow men are incredibly against HA and palatine guards are pretty good too. If you've done it correctly and you're not vastly outnumbered your infantry should've soaked up much of the arrows and you shouldn't have lost too many men. By the time the Khuzait infantry/archers get to you, you should've put a good dent in the HA numbers. I've used this strategy many times against the Khurzait and had good success.
Khuzait don't have the best T5 units except HAs. Imo the best foot archers in the game are Vlandian crossbow men (excluding elite units), the best infantry is Empire, the best cavalry imho is Vlandian although many people will argue that one. The biggest advantage that Khuzait have right now isn't in battle but on the campaign map. Their speed on map gives them the edge at ganging up or getting away from other factions and imho is the biggest issue with balance right now. All that being said I'd rather face Khuzait that face Battania any day of the week because facing 40-50 Fians is going to ruin your day real fast.
It seems to me you started your kingdom in khuzait realm. So it is no surprise that they didn't expand much since you were there to fight them (and they're easy to beat in real battle). The problem with khuzait steamrolling occurs when the player is leaving them alone for a sufficiently long time that their advantage on the map and in auto-calc allow them to beat the empire senseless.
