Khergits Counter

[LAWolves]

It's a common opinion that Khergits are unbalanced, especially on open maps, where they have plenty of room to manoeuvre.

In addition they have the fearsome (or gay) Horse Archers which are incredibly effective at (laming) harassing enemy forces without ever having to enter combat.

Their Lancers have a very well balanced loadout to choose from:
good swords, axes, lances, hafted blades and great high-end armors, warhorses and coursers.

They can fight effectively any other faction being extremely deadly on horse and being able to hold their own even on foot.

Against the Swadians they can use their horse archers to kill Swadian's horses and knights, which are Swadia's pride, make short work of Crossbowmen with hafted blades and render the 2 handed swords useless with bows.
Against the Vaegirs they can employ Armored cavalry to cut down Vaegir Archers and Mounted Archers to prevent and exploit of the Bardiche, thus leaving the Vaegirs with few options having only par to inferior cavalry.
Against the Nords they could crush the opposing Scouts and have the freedom to play with slower preys circling around with Cavalry, even the most skilled Huskarl would rather stay at home than having to deal with Horse Archers.
Against the Rhodocks they would make short work of any 2-Hander as even the "Horsebane" Pike is useless against arrows and the Rhodock cavalry would hardly stand a chance to Lancers, the Crossbowmen having no one able to defend them from Cavalry charges would fall soon.
Against the Sarranids they could employ a more versatile rooster of archers, coupled by some Heavy Cavalry and defeat the Sarranid Mamelukes during the first minutes, fighting their Infantry at about the same level and their archers being slightly superior not even the Sultanate would usually be able to stop the Khergits on an open map.

Even if they are superior in the open field, and quite capable on foot too they can't be considered unbalanced as the aspect that makes them so strong can be countered by any other faction. Even the Romans lost against the Horse Archers but they eventually came to a solution: fight fire with......more fire

Interesting part here        Interesting part here        Interesting part here        Interesting part here       

The superiority (gayness) of the Khergits stands in their Archers who can provide effective cover of several other lacks they have but even Horse Archers have weak point, they are not as effective as a usual Archer for what concerns "Number of aimed shots per minute" and this means that employing an appropriate number of Archers to systematically eliminate horses while Infantry provide protection from charges and Cavalry keeps harassing the Archers so that they cannot start circling the Footmen.
This tactic can be simplified saying that Kergits are weak to Archers and Ranged in general.


Hope this WallOfText was of some help to someone,
LAWolves

 

[ell_geezy]

It's easy to say that, But in reality it doesn't work like that, The kergh horse archer is more likely to win against the archers because they can manoeuvre while been extremely accurate. Whilst the archers have to stand still and get shot from all angles. then the horse archers circle around the infantry and shoot from all angles nullifying the shield, then you have the ninja horseman roaming about karate chopping you from behind when you aren't looking. Damn pesky kerghies, When playing against the kerghs i consider killing at least a quarter of there team each round a success regardless of the out come. i.e If it's 20v20 if you kill 5 kerghies you have won the match. this keeps me sane lol


Uthred

 

[Marin Peace Bringer]

It's easy to say that, But in reality it doesn't work like that

This is true, it is easy to say/know how to beat a certain tactic/faction/map but when you play with a group of random people, it is hard to get them organized, and because countering Khergits is harder them most factions, it is even HARDER, to get them organized.

 

[ell_geezy]

still really hard when you do have them organized


Uthred

 

[LAWolves]

Horse Archers offer a much bigger target, especially when circling, which helps the foot-archers aim quicker and keep strafing. Of course if the Khergits employ a well balanced team, with the sufficient number of Lancers to stop Archers and the sufficient number of Mounted Archers to kill Infantry and Cavalry, possibly with some experienced man among their Horse Archer then the party is over.

For what concerns organization it's not my business, I just exposed what's the best weapon to use against them, using it well and making others use it right is not something neither me or you can control.

 

[ell_geezy]

you say that a horse offers a bigger target but he is moving all the time and you are static he is like 70% more chance that he is going to kill you than him.


Uthred

 

[LAWolves]

you say that a horse offers a bigger target but he is moving all the time and you are static he is like 70% more chance that he is going to kill you than him.


Uthred

If you can't kill his steppe horse while he circles you, you're a bad archer (nothing personal), and his accuracy is (supposed to be) much lower due to the continous movent. I don't think there's a better way to fight them, if you have one be free to post it.

 

[ell_geezy]

that's the point archers sound good on paper but it just doesn't happen, there isn't really any counter to kerghies, oh wait there is. It's called Village =) lol


Uthred

 

[SockMonkeh]

Only newbies think Khergit are overpowered.

 

[ell_geezy]

i never said they were overpowered just said that is very hard to counter them


Uthred

 

[Seawied86]

Only newbies think Khergit are overpowered.

pretty much.

Infantry just needs to carry some throwing weaposn to take out horse archers. Once the HA is on foot, he's just a flat out crappy archer. Chase em down, hack up their shield, and take him out.


While khergits have horses for all their troops, and a variety of weapons, they never get the top tier weapons that the nords, swadians, etc all get.

 

[SockMonkeh]

i never said they were overpowered just said that is very hard to counter them


Uthred

I never called you a newbie.

 

[ell_geezy]

ah neither you did, touche.

While khergits have horses for all their troops, and a variety of weapons, they never get the top tier weapons that the nords, swadians, etc all get.

You are right they don't, but do the kerghits ever really give you a chance to get top tier equipment


Uhtred

 

[superhit1000]

In a organized battles Khergits are fairly hard to beat.

 

[Big_Mac]

Only newbies think Khergit are overpowered.

Exactly.

Truth be told, they suck. Sure they can zerg and trample opponents, but their units are quite poor really and can be easily outmatched by the other factions.

 

[Archonsod]

Khergits are pretty much a one trick (steppe)pony. Once you work out how to deal with that trick, they're a walk over.

 

[Dent]

In theory it all works out, when you have some Lancers and some Archers. In reality I'm constantly facing Khergit teams that are composed of all horse archers, and then any new person who joins the server sees that they're in the lead and joins them making it further unbalanced and then gloating over it after they gangbang me for the tenth time when I'm trying to convince my useless teammates to stop charging them with a two hander and just camp the damned ruins. *breathes.*

If you camp a high enough place with enough crossbows/bows, the Khergits will have to dismount or will be unhorsed eventually. On foot they're not going to make it unless the skill of their players is better, which is what's supposed to happen.

 

[CalCD]

The problem is that you need a bit more planning than usual to beat khergits whilst they dont really need a large amount of teamwork to win - one (good) horse archer could easily keep 5 non archers occupied , firing arrows at them if they try to run away and chopping down others if they turn their backs on the horse archer. To beat a horse archer, all you "need" to do is to wait until they run out of arrows, but then you still have a capable cavalry unit left who can still murder you with ease if you're not careful about it. The obvious solution would be to shoot them down, but it is a lot harder to shoot a moving target down than a stationary target and generally you will die before you can shoot them down - since horse archers get shields as well, you may still get killed if they survive getting shot down, as they simply switch into infantry/archer mode. They are inferior archers/infantry when not on horseback, but if they do die quickly it enables them to get back on a horse again and continue to circle-shoot. They are pretty much the most versatile troop in the game, able to shoot you down or cut you down and able to survive very well due to the mobility of the horses.

Since the only way you are going to kill competent khergits is by working together, it makes sense that most people would find them OP considering the amount of effort needed to kill just one - ideally two archers, to shoot them from their horses and kill archers threatening infantry, and two infantry men with anti cav weapons to protect the archers from lancers or dehorsed khergits. Cavalry doesnt really help, as you get shot down rather frequently with horse archers able to keep out of range until your horse gets shot down or you die.

Thankfully most people dont know how to use khergits to their full effectiveness, so they tend to die quickly in a situation where archers and infantry have cover and can avoid getting mobbed by horses.
(But i still hate them.)

 

[LAWolves]

I'd rather consider the situation being a battle. As most other modes are completely fictional(respawn) and can hardly be campared to real warfare and thus neither its tactics.

 

[MadocComadrin]

Usually the best counter is finding cover and picking the oblivious ones off. Normally, if the other team is a bit organized and patient, they go down faster than a "woman with questionable life choices."

On a side note, one time at Nord Town, it was Khergits v. Nords. The Khergits decided to organize themselves and managed to beat the Nords in a mostly infantry fight. That was probably the most epic round I played in.