Just your Daily CCP Thread

[JD2105]

It is from a neutral perspective really not that important what your personal opinion is to any particular person. Orion pointed out the facts, but as you can possibly tell it's not exactly endorsing the approach. If you are discontent with the current situation, you really shouldn't be disgruntled when someone points out what that situation looks like. Must there be a proper response, sooner rather than later that prohibits faulty bans: No. Should there be one? Yes. Changing the system and clearing up on the reports takes up time though, since you really don't want to rush out a solution that isn't one. You can keep asking about it and in many things that's a fairly good idea, but don't take your expectations as the norm everyone needs to follow, it's almost certain your expectations won't be met one way or the other.
For now all of us can just sit and wait, and arguably a few days or even a few weeks are time spans that might be okay if the presented solution after that time is worth the wait.

Treading a thin line having someone who represents a company telling the playerbase they don't care about their concerns. That'l for sure grow trust and sell products. I have said multiple times in this thread I am willing to give the devs time to make a response and create a plan, but I'm not gonna let mods act like this is a non issue when it clearly is

 

[Maroon]

someone who represents a company

You mean Icenova and Orion? Orion is a volunteer moderator on the forums, Icenova moderates a small subsection of the forums. They don't work for Taleworlds in any way.

 

[IceNoVa]

You may want to reread the debate. I even stated specifically that there should be a proper response while explaining the neutral position Orion is trying to take, which is the ideal stance for moderation purposes. It does not necessarily reflect ones opinion, however I can say from personal experience that it is often the more beneficial not to fuel the flames when there is no fire brigade in sight.
There's been quite a few people wondering about some threads regarding this topic getting locked, and I remember that when this issue first popped up I had to lock two of them because the thing derailed into xenophobic and racist comments. We might even agree with some of the points people are adressing, but the main nature for our intervention is when those turn the nature of the debate to the worse.

I'm not gonna let mods act like this is a non issue when it clearly is

Nobody said it was a non-issue, only that it is no use to shake your fist vigorously at the screen when you wait for the proper response like everyone else, moderators included.

 

[eddiemccandless]

Nobody said it was a non-issue, only that it is no use to shake your fist vigorously at the screen when you wait for the proper response like everyone else, moderators included.

That was a beautiful mental image, thank you for that ?.

 

[Gunslinger1127]

You may want to reread the debate. I even stated specifically that there should be a proper response while explaining the neutral position Orion is trying to take, which is the ideal stance for moderation purposes. It does not necessarily reflect ones opinion, however I can say from personal experience that it is often the more beneficial not to fuel the flames when there is no fire brigade in sight.
There's been quite a few people wondering about some threads regarding this topic getting locked, and I remember that when this issue first popped up I had to lock two of them because the thing derailed into xenophobic and racist comments. We might even agree with some of the points people are adressing, but the main nature for our intervention is when those turn the nature of the debate to the worse.

Nobody said it was a non-issue, only that it is no use to shake your fist vigorously at the screen when you wait for the proper response like everyone else, moderators included.

Please clarify what neutral position. I got 2 warnings points for 1 warning been on this fourm since 2015 never had a warning before, probably cause someone didnt like my non political correctness, doesnt seem neutral to me. But aslong as people are political correct they can call people "Sociopaths" Non political correct is marked as flaming even though I have not targeting anyone. I just was getting frustrated that people keep talking about players being racist even tho to me that is offtopic and not is the point of this ( Pretty much as political correct as you can get) . Also I don't like how your speaking for orion that he is neutral, that isnt "neutral" to me either. My Opinion, if the moderators were neutral the community would know and people wouldnt feel like this right now. They wouldnt need to tell the community that they were neutral.
I would send a pm to Orion but I have before and he just ignored me, Again doesnt seem neutral to me.
Tbh I think the community and moderators and devs are stressed cause something like this has never happen before in TW games.

Respectfully, Gunslinger

 

[JD2105]

You may want to reread the debate. I even stated specifically that there should be a proper response while explaining the neutral position Orion is trying to take, which is the ideal stance for moderation purposes. It does not necessarily reflect ones opinion, however I can say from personal experience that it is often the more beneficial not to fuel the flames when there is no fire brigade in sight.
There's been quite a few people wondering about some threads regarding this topic getting locked, and I remember that when this issue first popped up I had to lock two of them because the thing derailed into xenophobic and racist comments. We might even agree with some of the points people are adressing, but the main nature for our intervention is when those turn the nature of the debate to the worse.

Nobody said it was a non-issue, only that it is no use to shake your fist vigorously at the screen when you wait for the proper response like everyone else, moderators included.

Again, continue to try and misrepresent my whole point here to make me look like some forum troll. You claim Orion has pointed out the facts yet he dismisses the whole point of the post:

"TW have admitted that the 10-year bans were a mistake. There is no point in using that as a point of argument anymore. "

The whole reason we are here is it may be still happening and we lack information.
Then, this:

"K, so you didn't read the statement Callum made in the first thread like this where he said all of those bans were reduced in length to days, not years. What do you want, a screenshot of their ban list? Statements are all you can hope to get, and you aren't entitled to those, either. The report system & vetting criteria are still being determined. Put your pitchfork away and just wait for answers with the rest of us. "

We are just supposed to be okay with wrongful bans because they were reduced to weeks AFTER the issue was pointed out?

Is this not dismissive? Was the mod that banned me from the steam forums for posting about this and told me I was spreading "baseless conspiracy theories" not dismissive? I get you want to be Mr. Neutral in this situation but the visual for TW is not great, with the mods seemingly trying to save face for the devs, and it seems like even you guys are left out of the loop, left here to calm the the upset mob while TW continues to seemingly ignore it.

EDIT: Gramatical errors

 

[Gunslinger1127]

Again, continue to try and misrepresent my whole point here to make me look like some forum troll. I have repeatedly stated. You claim Orion has pointed out the facts yet he dismisses the whole point of the post:

"TW have admitted that the 10-year bans were a mistake. There is no point in using that as a point of argument anymore. "

The whole reason we are here is it may be still happening and we lack information.
Then, this:

"K, so you didn't read the statement Callum made in the first thread like this where he said all of those bans were reduced in length to days, not years. What do you want, a screenshot of their ban list? Statements are all you can hope to get, and you aren't entitled to those, either. The report system & vetting criteria are still being determined. Put your pitchfork away and just wait for answers with the rest of us. "

We are just supposed to be okay with wrongful bans because they were reduced to weeks AFTER the issue was pointed out?

Is this not dismissive? Was the mod that banned me from the steam forums for posting about this and told me I was spreading "baseless conspiracy theories" not dismissive? I get you want to be Mr. Neutral in this situation but the visual for TW is not great, with the mods seemingly trying to save face for the devs, and it seems like even you guys are left out of the loop, left here to calm the the upset mob while TW continues to seemingly ignore it.

Lets wait till they respond to mine I agree with some of your points, but I think I did mine better. and I don't want to see you warned for flaming. I might get muted for just mine from how I feel towards them right now.

 

[JD2105]

Lets wait till they respond to mine I agree with some of your points, but I think I did mine better. and I don't want to see you warned for flaming. I might get muted for just mine from how I feel towards them right now.

I would hope the mods wouldn't ban/warn me and realize I am not here to flame or troll anyone. I have also said repeatedly that I love the game and the community so my frustration does not come from a place of hate or anger, just wanting information. Hopefully this whole situation can be a point of growth between the playerbase and the devs/moderators regarding transparency and trustworthiness, I still have hope the dev's have the communities best interests in mind. Time will tell but each day that goes by with no clarification on the issue decreases the trust between the community and TW

 

[Ueki]

Simple: he never was. There are no warnings, actions, or reply bans associated with his account from any time. He even posted in this thread right before someone else posted a bogus screenshot saying he couldn't post here.

the screenshot you claimed as bogus is also uploaded by "upsetuser" on a Taiwan forum since he cannot reply to this thread.
He mentioned that he cannot post after he replied eddie. When he want to reply again, thing on that screenshot happened.

i just got an video which captured by him. He is still unable to reply to this thread right in this moment.
it seems what your reply is not accurate
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FYGJPcDFuzZWL5xCLlHh-jN0QRlCSzDx/view
or is there misoperation he did which lead to this?

FYI: timezone is GMT+8

I can even feel his frustrations.
He already got banned ingame for what he didnt do(cheating) with no explanation , twice
and now even got banned on the official forum when the Mods said he did not

And here is another video to show the 2nd ban is real,
what OP posting is real, not a fake news with only a picture(or you can say its a fake new with a video)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GOei-UOwKYYRrm2Uw_2BQK2cW4cndGxX/view

he still got banned in MP to 12 May 2030 right this moment, right now.

 

[Gunslinger1127]

And here is another video to show the 2nd ban is real,
what OP posting is real, not a fake news with only a picture(or you can say its a fake new with a video)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GOei-UOwKYYRrm2Uw_2BQK2cW4cndGxX/view

he still got banned in MP to 12 May 2030 right this moment, right now.

It is sad the community have to go to such lengths to try and prove. Sometimes the Moderators are wrong and they should accept this.

 

[Hsuan325]

Someone do not know what is authority and responsibility.
They just have authority but fail to understand responsibility.
That is a disaster.

 

[Ueki]

It is sad the community have to go to such lengths to try and prove. Sometimes the Moderators are wrong and they should accept this.

It is understandable that the Mods do not know the progress on things since they only manage the forum as Volunteer.

 

[JD2105]

It is understandable that the Mods do not know the progress on things since they only manage the forum as Volunteer.

Of course, I think most of us aren't upset that the mods can't give us the information we want, it seems pretty clear they do not have all the info, but a shame to see them so dismissive of our concerns. In the meantime I will give them the benefit of the doubt on this but am hoping they try and use their positions to try and get a bit of transparency as they have a more direct line of contact than we do to the developers.

Good detective work btw, just watched the videos and the second ban does seem to be legit, hopefully we can get some answers for him

 

[IceNoVa]

Please clarify what neutral position. I got 2 warnings points for 1 warning been on this fourm since 2015 never had a warning before, probably cause someone didnt like my non political correctness, doesnt seem neutral to me. But aslong as people are political correct they can call people "Sociopaths" Non political correct is marked as flaming even though I have not targeting anyone. I just was getting frustrated that people keep talking about players being racist even tho to me that is offtopic and not is the point of this ( Pretty much as political correct as you can get) . Also I don't like how your speaking for orion that he is neutral, that isnt "neutral" to me either. My Opinion, if the moderators were neutral the community would know and people wouldnt feel like this right now. They wouldnt need to tell the community that they were neutral.

Just to clarify, the neutral perspective I was adressing was refering to Orion's statement

We are entitled to a license to play the game, but TW (and pretty much every studio/publisher in the world) reserves the right to revoke access to multiplayer at any time for any reason they see fit. It's a private company with none of the legal obligations of a public service or institution. You are not entitled to anything else.

Which is simple listing of facts without specifically saying that this is a good or bad thing, hence it is a neutral statement. I adressed this when I wrote

Must there be a proper response, sooner rather than later that prohibits faulty bans: No. Should there be one? Yes.

The whole point of stating the obvious is really rather simple: People wait for a statement and threads, as we have unfortunately have to see on numerous occasions, devolve the debate during that waiting time into a political debate that ends up with xenophobia and borderline racism and/or some less than charming suggestions regarding current globabl events. It's fairly obvious that none of that belongs into the On-Topic section of a video game.
Other users prefer not to ride the xenophobia train as much, but prefer to spin theories and/or seek confirmation for their anger, which is also not the purpose of threads like these. The reason moderation then intervenes is pretty much the same: it's not going anywhere and instead of excessive insluts and racial slurs a thread is full of misinformation or some slim pickings that people use to fuel their anger when the appropriate way to proceed should be to wait for the official reaction and their plans to prevent unjustified bans in the future.
As I said, that may take a bit of time since a system alteration must work before it's pushed out. Regarding an appropriate waiting time for that I can only give guesstimates, hence I suggested a few weeks earlier.

No one on here is disputing that unjustified bans are something bad and that those should be prevented at all cost, but rather that the nature of the debate surrounding this issue could use a little more patience.

Regarding the sociopath/warning issue: If you feel a post violates the rules, file a report. Namecalling will at the very least be snipped and the user notified of their wrong doing, however context matters a lot for decision making.. Warnings are a matter of pm since they're off-topic and not in need of public debate. I'll have a look and send you a pm though.

 

[Ueki]

Just to clarify, the neutral perspective I was adressing was refering to Orion's statement

Which is simple listing of facts without specifically saying that this is a good or bad thing, hence it is a neutral statement. I adressed this when I wrote

The whole point of stating the obvious is really rather simple: People wait for a statement and threads, as we have unfortunately have to see on numerous occasions, devolve the debate during that waiting time into a political debate that ends up with xenophobia and borderline racism and/or some less than charming suggestions regarding current globabl events. It's fairly obvious that none of that belongs into the On-Topic section of a video game.
Other users prefer not to ride the xenophobia train as much, but prefer to spin theories and/or seek confirmation for their anger, which is also not the purpose of threads like these. The reason moderation then intervenes is pretty much the same: it's not going anywhere and instead of excessive insluts and racial slurs a thread is full of misinformation or some slim pickings that people use to fuel their anger when the appropriate way to proceed should be to wait for the official reaction and their plans to prevent unjustified bans in the future.
As I said, that may take a bit of time since a system alteration must work before it's pushed out. Regarding an appropriate waiting time for that I can only give guesstimates, hence I suggested a few weeks earlier.

No one on here is disputing that unjustified bans are something bad and that those should be prevented at all cost, but rather that the nature of the debate surrounding this issue could use a little more patience.

Regarding the sociopath/warning issue: If you feel a post violates the rules, file a report. Namecalling will at the very least be snipped and the user notified of their wrong doing, however context matters a lot for decision making.. Warnings are a matter of pm since they're off-topic and not in need of public debate. I'll have a look and send you a pm though.

We do understand that things need take times.
reviewing the reasons of these unjustified bans take times, building new banning review system take times.

But i believe that there should something TW are already have the answers and can tell us.
for example: how the cooperation-ship TW with the Chinese forum? Since reports on the Chinese forum were executed so fast, a special report windows TW granted is a reasonable doubt.
i mean, all these "background" things TW should able to answer without taking too much time.
that also can help us to better understand what TW is doing and calm down
However, all we got for now is "we are investigating now and new system will be plant" but people got banned again

 

[Orion]

Please clarify what neutral position. I got 2 warnings points for 1 warning been on this fourm since 2015 never had a warning before, probably cause someone didnt like my non political correctness, doesnt seem neutral to me. But aslong as people are political correct they can call people "Sociopaths" Non political correct is marked as flaming even though I have not targeting anyone.

Ask in public, be answered in public. Your warning was given because you made sweeping generalizations about Chinese people & players, including that they are overwhelmingly more likely to cheat and racially discriminate against others. You also said that this incident was "a taste of their own medicine," all of which is clearly inflammatory and baity. Don't mistake neutrality for inaction. It was 2 points, which carries with it no limitations or restrictions on your account. The details of our warning system can be found in the second section of the forum rules, after the parts where it says flaming, baiting, and discrimination are not allowed.

the screenshot you claimed as bogus is also uploaded by "upsetuser" on a Taiwan forum since he cannot reply to this thread.
He mentioned that he cannot post after he replied eddie. When he want to reply again, thing on that screenshot happened.

i just got an video which captured by him. He is still unable to reply to this thread right in this moment.
it seems what your reply is not accurate
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FYGJPcDFuzZWL5xCLlHh-jN0QRlCSzDx/view
or is there misoperation he did which lead to this?

FYI: timezone is GMT+8

I can even feel his frustrations.
He already got banned ingame for what he didnt do(cheating) with no explanation , twice
and now even got banned on the official forum when the Mods said he did not

I don't know what to tell you. I have checked every single thing within my power that could be restricting his access to this forum, but there is nothing. He has no warnings, mutes, bans, reply bans, or even deleted posts. He has done nothing that is against our rules and nothing--that I can see--has been done against him. I'll check with Janus and see if it's an issue with a VPN, as we do have many restrictions on those and I know it's common for Chinese users to utilize them. If that is the case, then the restriction was applied automatically.

[Edit]

He needs to update his email address. The email address he used to register wasn't confirmed, so the forum automatically set his account to require an updated email address and confirmation. Once he does that, his account should begin working properly. To reiterate, he was not banned or punished in any capacity. He's just ignoring the message telling him to verify his email address. Janus just edited the message to make it clear that users who don't confirm their emails will be unable to post until they do.

We are just supposed to be okay with wrongful bans because they were reduced to weeks AFTER the issue was pointed out?

Mistakes usually do go uncorrected until they are pointed out. They were also reduced to something like 10 days, but that's not really the point.

I would hope the mods wouldn't ban/warn me and realize I am not here to flame or troll anyone.

We completely understand the frustrations people have with this issue. As Nova has said, we're not trying to suppress it, we're just trying to keep discussions from devolving into racially-charged mudslinging. This thread remains open because it is a valid concern for the community and they do deserve a place to voice that concern, as long as it's kept within the forum rules.

We do understand that things need take times.
reviewing the reasons of these unjustified bans take times, building new banning review system take times.

But i believe that there should something TW are already have the answers and can tell us.
for example: how the cooperation-ship TW with the Chinese forum? Since reports on the Chinese forum were executed so fast, a special report windows TW granted is a reasonable doubt.
i mean, all these "background" things TW should able to answer without taking too much time.
that also can help us to better understand what TW is doing and calm down
However, all we got for now is "we are investigating now and new system will be plant" but people got banned again

Sadly, our community manager is currently unavailable, and for a reason that would be very inappropriate of me to share. This does delay the response to this issue, among other things, but it is what it is.

 

[upsetuser]

Ask in public, be answered in public. Your warning was given because you made sweeping generalizations about Chinese people & players, including that they are overwhelmingly more likely to cheat and racially discriminate against others. You also said that this incident was "a taste of their own medicine," all of which is clearly inflammatory and baity. Don't mistake neutrality for inaction. It was 2 points, which carries with it no limitations or restrictions on your account. The details of our warning system can be found in the second section of the forum rules, after the parts where it says flaming, baiting, and discrimination are not allowed.


I don't know what to tell you. I have checked every single thing within my power that could be restricting his access to this forum, but there is nothing. He has no warnings, mutes, bans, reply bans, or even deleted posts. He has done nothing that is against our rules and nothing--that I can see--has been done against him. I'll check with Janus and see if it's an issue with a VPN, as we do have many restrictions on those and I know it's common for Chinese users to utilize them. If that is the case, then the restriction was applied automatically.

[Edit]

He needs to update his email address. The email address he used to register wasn't confirmed, so the forum automatically set his account to require an updated email address and confirmation. Once he does that, his account should begin working properly. To reiterate, he was not banned or punished in any capacity. He's just ignoring the message telling him to verify his email address. Janus just edited the message to make it clear that users who don't confirm their emails will be unable to post until they do.

Mistakes usually do go uncorrected until they are pointed out. They were also reduced to something like 10 days, but that's not really the point.

We completely understand the frustrations people have with this issue. As Nova has said, we're not trying to suppress it, we're just trying to keep discussions from devolving into racially-charged mudslinging. This thread remains open because it is a valid concern for the community and they do deserve a place to voice that concern, as long as it's kept within the forum rules.

I change my email to out look and now i can finally speak again,problem solved

 

[Ueki]

I don't know what to tell you. I have checked every single thing within my power that could be restricting his access to this forum, but there is nothing. He has no warnings, mutes, bans, reply bans, or even deleted posts. He has done nothing that is against our rules and nothing--that I can see--has been done against him. I'll check with Janus and see if it's an issue with a VPN, as we do have many restrictions on those and I know it's common for Chinese users to utilize them. If that is the case, then the restriction was applied automatically.

[Edit]

He needs to update his email address. The email address he used to register wasn't confirmed, so the forum automatically set his account to require an updated email address and confirmation. Once he does that, his account should begin working properly. To reiterate, he was not banned or punished in any capacity. He's just ignoring the message telling him to verify his email address. Janus just edited the message to make it clear that users who don't confirm their emails will be unable to post until they do.

Problem solved, appreciated for your help.

 

[Orion]

 

[upsetuser]

Right. I am sorry you are upset but this also isn't evidence that the ban occurred on that day. Also I never mentioned photoshop.

Sorry for accusing you for the photoshop line

I am showing you the evidence I can get but to achieve more you needs to ask TW about it there is NO WAY i can acquire the data you need

TW never tell nor show me when you got banned so you need to ask TW about it

but here is the thing

1.first ten years ban occur in 5.4 so i post it on the internet

2.Callum maks a statement says ban reduce to 7 days which is 5.11

3.after 5.11 i got unbanned so i get in and play few match and i didn't cheat

4.busy in real life,on 5.17 i got spare time and log in then i found out i was banned again for ten years

If you need evidence all I can show you is two evidences of me getting banned

1.5.4 for:inappropriate bahavior for this one I only got photo

2.5.17 for:cheat involement for this one I got video captured today

But the former one is easy to get on internet,which is because I was the one who spread it out

Since it is expire now I wont get any evidence about the first ban now,nothing I can do about it

Most importantly,I give my Staem ID and nickname I used and I am willing to let TalesWorld show my log to everyone,if I am indeed cheating,then problem solved,if not,unbanned me and apologized,is there any trouble for TW to do so?

this is my second ban,angry and upset I am

SteamID: nomal1992
Nickname:中國武漢共產黨肺炎 (Not meant to troll here but this is my steam nickname)