Just remove horse archers from the game

[Aggrobiscuit]

Wow that is some cheese tactic against cav archer dominant forces. For horse archers to beat that they’d have to know when to do the clockwise rotating cantabrian circle, shooting outward and then falling away from your front line. If they could only turn right they’d wreck you lmao. IMO devs need to fix that ASAP if it’s an issue that’s ridiculous lmao.

They should be able to turn right. All good horse archers should be able to fire ambidextrously, as they trained that way because of this very problem. I'm surprised that Taleworlds don't know about the Chinese, Greek and Mongolian horse archers (to name a few), given their research into military history.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

If horse archers could shoot to both sides they'd be totally unbeatable. That's like their one and only weakness.

 

[KyDeezy]

If horse archers could shoot to both sides they'd be totally unbeatable. That's like their one and only weakness.

200 Legolases... Sounds like fun

 

[rektasaurus]

They should be able to turn right. All good horse archers should be able to fire ambidextrously, as they trained that way because of this very problem. I'm surprised that Taleworlds don't know about the Chinese, Greek and Mongolian horse archers (to name a few), given their research into military history.

I’m sure at least one person there does know. I’d be okay if the didn’t put ambidextrous shooting for cav archers. Better ai decisions and less aimbot javelins would be nice though.

Also the recruit system is starting to feel a little strange. I keep sending them in to die in huge numbers just to level them and for some reason they refuse to use one of the many shields I have in my inventory. I also always have to keep them around in case I lose a lot of infantry or archers. I wish there was a way to reclass an infantry unit to archer or something. Like a dude picked up a bow yesterday and he can suddenly no longer use a shield and wear armor? Idk

 

[Marajah]

They're very accessible TO YOU TOO! AI gets their troops cheated in so it doesn't matter 'how hard' to get xyz is.... nothing is hard for them.
Cav is NOT the counter! Cav is bad because of bad AI and side weapons not able reach enemies! Archers/HA are the counter! You can make t2 empire archers and easily amass them, they're the most common recruit in the game!

I would like to have units prioritize at type of enemy too, I think that would be a huge improvement to M&B. However doing what I described will absolutely destroy AI horse archers.

That's the point. I suppose most of us don't like how easy it is to make huge archers/horse archers doomstacks compared to building any other kind of efficient army. You can literally answer anyone having problems in field battles in this game with: RECRUIT MORE ARCHERS! They are strong and easy to get. That's quite poor balance. So it does matter how hard it is to get xyz because it limits the player's options.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

That's the point. I suppose most of us don't like how easy it is to make huge archers/horse archers doomstacks compared to building any other kind of efficient army. You can literally answer anyone having problems in field battles in this game with: RECRUIT MORE ARCHERS! They are strong and easy to get. That's quite poor balance. So it does matter how hard it is to get xyz because it limits the player's options.

You can't build a efficient army, but it has nothing to do with archers an HA being functional. I don't think you're a most of us. You're a few who want to play big strong sword men beat up everyone fantasy game and can't because archer shoot you so you're mad.

 

[Urzahil]

I've found some good counters to horse archers. The biggest one is have some very good heavy cavalry to beeline for them. Vlandian vanguards are awesome for that job and so is crafting that "sword spear" for maximum cut damage and combined with the Horse Killer trait you can kill or unhorse enemy HA pretty easily. Basically you want to use your own mobile formations to "screen" the HA away from your less mobile units like the infantry until they can smash into the enemy infantry. Charge them with your own cavalry, keep them busy.

The downside to the Khuzait HA is that they're not useful in sieges because that takes away their biggest advantage - mobility. Just one of several reasons Khuzait really blows at siege warfare.

Part of the problem is that the AI is awful at keeping an army together. Historically, armies didn't spread out all over the place chasing willy nilly..that's where the biggest problem is. I've lost count of the number of times when I screamed at the AI to "keep the ****ing army together!" That's the problem in a nutshell.

I use Realistic Battle which significantly nerfs horse archers by boosting heavy armor - it also nerfs player archery big time too by forcing you to use a more realistic arch to your shots the further away you are, the greater the arch which makes it very difficult for you to be the machine gunner archer of death..lol

 

[Aggrobiscuit]

The downside to the Khuzait HA is that they're not useful in sieges because that takes away their biggest advantage - mobility. Just one of several reasons Khuzait really blows at siege warfare.

In live battles maybe, but in simulations they're just fine at sieging judging by how quickly they take over the map.

 

[MaRzz]

HA is good for SP. Not for MP bc nobody likes playing against it.

 

[Marajah]

You can't build a efficient army, but it has nothing to do with archers an HA being functional. I don't think you're a most of us. You're a few who want to play big strong sword men beat up everyone fantasy game and can't because archer shoot you so you're mad.

Who's mad? Take your assumptions elsewhere. Take the whole discussion elsewhere if you can't take criticism to an idea without feeling personally attacked to a point you gotta be smug.

It's a fact archers over perform and no one said they shouldn't be functional. They should be. Also It just shouldn't be as hard to get infantry/cavalry promoted at decent rates. More viable choices in a game are usually better than go mass archers or lose to the khuzait

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Who's mad? Take your assumptions elsewhere. Take the whole discussion elsewhere if you can't take criticism to an idea without feeling personally attacked to a point you gotta be smug.

It's a fact archers over perform and no one said they shouldn't be functional. They should be. Also It just shouldn't be as hard to get infantry/cavalry promoted at decent rates. More viable choices in a game are usually better than go mass archers or lose to the khuzait

You're mad. You're mad that horse archers are better then infantry and Cavalry. They're barely functional so saying they are over performing is actually asking for them to not function.

Infantry is harder to promote because they die easier in combat. You need many more foot soldiers to grind into advanced infantry because they have to exchange blows to get exp. You also need more real life time as it takes longer for infantry to reach and enemy in battle.

You're worry should be: Why doesn't infantry use it's shield effectively? Why does armor not reduce more damage? Why does Cavalry miss it's attacks so often? It has nothing to do with ranged units.

Also, you can make Khuzait horseman just as easily as raiders. So there's you easy fast Cav. They won't hit **** but you can make em.

 

[Apocal]

The downside to the Khuzait HA is that they're not useful in sieges because that takes away their biggest advantage - mobility. Just one of several reasons Khuzait really blows at siege warfare.

Their biggest advantage is mobility, but saying they aren't useful in sieges is like saying archers aren't useful. Since that's exactly what they become.

If you care to cheese things, you can kill like 75% of the garrison just by going a bit more than halfway up the ladder with all your Khuzait archers arrayed behind you. Watch them basically machine gun the defenders on the wall until more file in, over and over, until barely anyone is left except the block of guys defending the gate.

 

[rektasaurus]

Their biggest advantage is mobility, but saying they aren't useful in sieges is like saying archers aren't useful. Since that's exactly what they become.

If you care to cheese things, you can kill like 75% of the garrison just by going a bit more than halfway up the ladder with all your Khuzait archers arrayed behind you. Watch them basically machine gun the defenders on the wall until more file in, over and over, until barely anyone is left except the block of guys defending the gate.

Isn’t it supposed to be harder to shoot up into the ramparts?

 

[Apocal]

Isn’t it supposed to be harder to shoot up into the ramparts?

It isn't that hard because the AI doesn't know how to use cover effectively and even if it did, the siege party brought more archers.

 

[Urzahil]

Their biggest advantage is mobility, but saying they aren't useful in sieges is like saying archers aren't useful. Since that's exactly what they become.

If you care to cheese things, you can kill like 75% of the garrison just by going a bit more than halfway up the ladder with all your Khuzait archers arrayed behind you. Watch them basically machine gun the defenders on the wall until more file in, over and over, until barely anyone is left except the block of guys defending the gate.

I use the Realistic Battle mod. It significantly nerfs archery not only by adding more arc the further out you shoot, it also significantly buffs heavies' armor.

 

[rektasaurus]

Honestly this thread should be closed. Horse archers should never be removed and there is another thread discussing the issue of missiles vs armor.

 

[matamor]

These kind of ideas should be removed from forums.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Their biggest advantage is mobility, but saying they aren't useful in sieges is like saying archers aren't useful. Since that's exactly what they become.

If you care to cheese things, you can kill like 75% of the garrison just by going a bit more than halfway up the ladder with all your Khuzait archers arrayed behind you. Watch them basically machine gun the defenders on the wall until more file in, over and over, until barely anyone is left except the block of guys defending the gate.

I've had difficulty getting archers to perform well in siege so far. I put them where they should be good to shoot enemies and they .....don't..... they get shot though..... it's very annoying because they're really good archers and I can easily shoot down the enemy from these positions.
And if I let them charge it's a disaster unless I have them hold fire. It's really silly but they take far more losses attacking just as infantry. This is with walls down though.
I will keep trying though, I love to murder garrisons and I love sneaking in when the wall are down and creeping around snipping with my army safe at the edge of the map.

I play the game wrong.

 

[Apocal]

I've had difficulty getting archers to perform well in siege so far. I put them where they should be good to shoot enemies and they .....don't..... they get shot though..... it's very annoying because they're really good archers and I can easily shoot down the enemy from these positions.

Sometimes you have to toggle F4 repeatedly during sieges to get them to start using their bows. I don't know why.

I use the Realistic Battle mod. It significantly nerfs archery not only by adding more arc the further out you shoot, it also significantly buffs heavies' armor.

If you're going to come into threads discussing balance, it is considered appropriate to mention any balance-changing mods that you use before you bring up your experiences. Those experiences aren't totally invalid, but saying that horse archers are bad in sieges is a bit misleading for anyone unaware that you run a mod that nerfs their performance.

Otherwise, Khuzait horse archers are perfectly competent at sieges. Although I had the experience of them being even better with Armor Does Something because they wear better protection (at higher tiers) than militia archers, so they could win archery duels even easier with that mod. I don't know how it compares to Realistic Battle mod or even if that is still relevant, since it was quite a few patches ago.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Sometimes you have to toggle F4 repeatedly during sieges to get them to start using their bows. I don't know why.



If you're going to come into threads discussing balance, it is considered appropriate to mention any balance-changing mods that you use before you bring up your experiences. Those experiences aren't totally invalid, but saying that horse archers are bad in sieges is a bit misleading for anyone unaware that you run a mod that nerfs their performance.

Otherwise, Khuzait horse archers are perfectly competent at sieges. Although I had the experience of them being even better with Armor Does Something because they wear better protection (at higher tiers) than militia archers, so they could win archery duels even easier with that mod. I don't know how it compares to Realistic Battle mod or even if that is still relevant, since it was quite a few patches ago.

Oh good to know! I know I played some warband mods that had issues like that in sieges.

Just to be clear, my Heavy Horse archers and KG ****ing bulldoze the garrisons when I have them hold fire and charge, it's just the shooting in general I have trouble getting the AI to do in sieges. The Khan's guard is absolutely the best unit in the game IMO and the Heavy HA is pretty incredible too. No mods for me btw.