Just another thread about OP Archers.

[Dabos37]

Sure, but maybe its fine to let people enjoy their op archers. And SP Mount and Blade has always been about modding the game to your liking anyway.

I doubt that the 3 or 4 guys here arguing in favor of OP archers represent the majority of people, so not sure why TW should let OP archers unchanged, just to make happy these guys.

And yes, I know that I can simply mod the game to my liking, but same could be said for people who want to play with OP Archers.

Archers are clearly broken and I am just reporting this issue like we are supposed to do in EA.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

I doubt that the 3 or 4 guys here arguing in favor of OP archers represent the majority of people, so not sure why TW should let OP archers unchanged, just to make happy these guys.

And yes, I know that I can simply mod the game to my liking, but same could be said for people who want to play with OP Archers.

Archers are clearly broken and I am just reporting this issue like we are supposed to do in EA.

I don't know why, but I can't help but feel like this is simply how TW intended it to be. I'd like to be proved wrong though. I too dislike the overall strength of ranged combat in this game.

This has been reported on already, and so far we haven't seen much change on it.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

So, why should I even care to get infantry?

To put them in front of archers or HA so enemies attack them first and they die instead of better units.

 

[Dabos37]

To put them in front of archers or HA so enemies attack them first and they die instead of better units.

uhmmm, I prefer to put archers in front, in back and in flanks, so they kill everything before any units die xD. T5 archers are easy to get and not as expensive as noble units, so why just do not spam them?

 

[Dabos37]

I don't know why, but I can't help but feel like this is simply how TW intended it to be. I'd like to be proved wrong though. I too dislike the overall strength of ranged combat in this game.

This has been reported on already, and so far we haven't seen much change on it.

Well, Archers have got some nerfs already but mostly about melee performance. I think that TW is not aware of how OP Archers are, and this is the main reason because they are still broken. Devs are pretty bussy and this is probably not a high priority thing.

On the other hand, maybe you are right and it is something related to multiplayer commander mode or something else.

 

[Apocal]

Well, Archers have got some nerfs already but mostly about melee performance. I think that TW is not aware of how OP Archers are, and this is the main reason because they are still broken. Devs are pretty bussy and this is probably not a high priority thing.

They've received two rounds of nerfs, overall. The first was stripping away their high tier bows. The second didn't have any effect at the time, but almost all of them had their Bow skill reduced. With the new patch (1.4.3) making skills actually function, they've received a moderate buff since now those skills add to accuracy and damage.

There was the original nerf, on release, where archers couldn't see **** at night, but that was patched out.

 

[Dabos37]

Oh yes, I remember these changes. Units making use of skill is a great addition but yes, now archers need some tweaks.

Concerning cavalty, it was performing bad some patches ago but the tests I am doing with dev console are showing a good cavalry performance. It looks like the cavalry strenght has been increased in this patch and they are doing a good job if used in mass.

 

[hruza]

Crecy ended in a long series of melees, lasting well into the evening.

English did not had 100% archers at Crecy, just 30% and those were not melees that French complained about after the battle.

Bannerlord archers are pretty good about making sure that melee doesn't happen in anything approaching an equal battle.

I still remember your videos where you had destroyed arches one on one, tier for tier, with cavalry.

 

[Apocal]

I still remember your videos where you had destroyed arches one on one, tier for tier, with cavalry.

?‍
I never figured out what was going on with that and other people were (are) getting the exact opposite results.

 

[hruza]

?‍
I never figured out what was going on with that and other people were (are) getting the exact opposite results.

I am not getting opposite results. I am getting the same results as you did. I had posted results in the same thread.
I did not play last unstable patch but I doubt that there was something that radically changed the balance.

 

[The Great Grub]

i dont think its a problem with archers but more a problem with ai and armor being very bad in this game, and yes a small army of elite units can hold off a lot of low tier units even in real life

 

[Dabos37]

It is not just the AI, even if the AI use shield wall properly, AI armies get massacred by archers. Elite units should overperform, sure, but by how much should they overperform? The biggest issue currently is that archers are much more effective than cavalry and infantry in battles, so there is not point to recruit anything different to archers, except if you want a 100% cavalry army due to speed. Tier 5 archers should be similar than T5 infantry/cavalry units when we talk about effectiveness, but it is not the case currently.

Plus, try to get T5 cavalry units and then try to get T5 archer units, and then compare the huge difference. Getting T5 cav units require time, planification to try to keep them alive, and horses/war horses. To get T5 archers you just need to fight a few number of battles and them you get the most effective unit in the game without any effort.

Lastly, it is pretty bored to have to fight tons of battles where you do not even need to engage in melee because archers are able to kill everything from distance. Currently my archers are able to kill 70-80% of enemy armies from distance which is not intended for sure. Archers are removing any possible difficulty from battles, and making better the AI at blocking projectiles could help but it wont be enough.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

?‍
I never figured out what was going on with that and other people were (are) getting the exact opposite results.

I don't try to test thing s but I might think it could be people using f1-f3 (suicide charge) versus f1-f4 (slow but smarter attack).

 

[Dabos37]

I don't try to test thing s but I might think it could be people using f1-f3 (suicide charge) versus f1-f4 (slow but smarter attack).

I am making about 1000% more tests than you and uploadinmg tons of videos, while you only repeat the same silly thing about F1-F3, or your only argument about cavalry kill archers in custom battles. Archers in actual battles are MUCH more effective than cavalry/infantry.

After the lastest patches where vlandian cav got improved armor, plus units using skills now, it is true that most of the times cavalry units are now able to defeat archers in perfect conditions (1 vs 1 in custom battles), but this does not change the fact about Archers are like 5 times more effective than infantry and cavalry in actual battles, when they are correctly used, and when the chaos does not allow you to perform perfect charges with cavarly over and over like in custom battles. Anyway, there is not need to continue making vacum tests in custom battles, when looking this videos is pretty clear that archers are much supperior than infantry/cav:










On the other hand, what are you talking about F1-F3 xDDDDD? With archers you do not even need to do that, you just need to start the battle, go for a coffee, back 3 minutes later, and then the battle is over with 0 losses from your side xD. I do not get why you repeat the "noobs doing F1-F3" argument over and over, when archers are actually the most noobfriendly unit in the game currently, c'mon...

 

[stevehoos]

They're not. Your'e mad cuz bad.


No and I'm not going to. I play this game everyday with and against all types of archers and I know all about them. They're functional. Not op, no even 'good' until the highest tiers, just functional.

Archers are shredding un

It is not just the AI, even if the AI use shield wall properly, AI armies get massacred by archers. Elite units should overperform, sure, but by how much should they overperform? The biggest issue currently is that archers are much more effective than cavalry and infantry in battles, so there is not point to recruit anything different to archers, except if you want a 100% cavalry army due to speed. Tier 5 archers should be similar than T5 infantry/cavalry units when we talk about effectiveness, but it is not the case currently.

Plus, try to get T5 cavalry units and then try to get T5 archer units, and then compare the huge difference. Getting T5 cav units require time, planification to try to keep them alive, and horses/war horses. To get T5 archers you just need to fight a few number of battles and them you get the most effective unit in the game without any effort.

Lastly, it is pretty bored to have to fight tons of battles where you do not even need to engage in melee because archers are able to kill everything from distance. Currently my archers are able to kill 70-80% of enemy armies from distance which is not intended for sure. Archers are removing any possible difficulty from battles, and making better the AI at blocking projectiles could help but it wont be enough.

Yep, and there are some in here saying archers are not overpowered,.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Tier 5 archers should be similar than T5 infantry/cavalry units when we talk about effectiveness, but it is not the case currently.

Yes and Cavalry and Infantry need to be improved. If you nerf archers and HA then all units will suck and the whole game will suck. We'll just patch it out and and it to the **** up list. Honesty though, while I agree infantry and Cav under perform, I sincerely think that you are a bad player and that your 'tests' and opinions about battles are among the poorest examples to judge anything by.

Plus, try to get T5 cavalry units and then try to get T5 archer units, and then compare the huge difference

It's not a huge difference for me. True with ranged you can afk against looters, with infantry and cav you should always run interference but the actual time and ease isn't different. They don't get less exp per kill. If you're letting ranged units kill-steal them first that's your problem, press f4 .

melee

disorganized hand-to-hand combat in battles fought at abnormally close range with little central control once it starts.

 

[Dabos37]

Are you aware that what you say does not make any sense? So, I am a bad player who complains about the game is too easy? Maybe I am a bad player, but this makes even worse that I find the battles too easy due to OP archers. If a bad player complains about an OP unit which is unbalanced and makes the game too easy, I do not even want to think about what a good player thinks about it. Seriously, take a moment to think before writing.

It's not a huge difference for me. True with ranged you can afk against looters, with infantry and cav you should always run interference but the actual time and ease isn't different. They don't get less exp per kill. If you're letting ranged units kill-steal them first that's your problem, press f4.

It is the funniest part, so I should hold fire to let other units to join to the party and get some archers' leftovers?

By the way, if my tests are not good, have you any suggestion to test this?

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

It is the funniest part, so I should hold fire to let other units to join to the party and get some archers' leftovers?

If you want them to get exp YES, or leave the archers at home as i would and only stack 1 unit type for faster leveling. I'm not trying to flame you but you sound incompetent and clumsy anytime you describe something you do in the game.

 

[Dabos37]

If you want them to get exp YES, or leave the archers at home as i would and only stack 1 unit type for faster leveling. I'm not trying to flame you but you sound incompetent and clumsy anytime you describe something you do in the game.

So, you are basically saying that I should stop using archers (F4 or just left them at home) in order to be able to make some use of other units?

Plus you say that archers are not OP, and the problem is that everything else sucks and should get buffs (not sure about which buffs infantry in player's hands could get, but ok).

Thanks for your contribution to this thread, and I am going to try to be more compentent in the future. Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[The Great Grub]

the palatine guard are the best archer unit in the game imo might not be as good as the fian champian but take a lot less time to recruit and train