It's been months - Why is death in battle STILL only enabled in player battles? It ultimately ruins every playthrough.

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vertibird

Recruit
Another great facepalm for me. Recently I reinstalled the game to start playing again with 1.5.10 but quickly started to be disappointed by just reading forums. I didnt know death is for only player battles. This is really immersion breaking...
 
As 1.6 still hasn't addressed this issue (or at least I couldn't see it in the change log), is there a mod to enable death in AI vs AI battles? I can't find one on the nexus but maybe I'm searching for the wrong thing. I'd like to start a new campaign but it's pointless while death is in player battles but not AI battles, for reasons already stated.
 

Phwoar

Recruit
I think a potential solution is to make time pass faster, thus making dynasties more viable, the faster the pups come of age the less the death of their elders will will have an impact.
 

vonbalt

Knight at Arms
WBNWVCM&B
I think a potential solution is to make time pass faster, thus making dynasties more viable, the faster the pups come of age the less the death of their elders will will have an impact.
The Pacemaker mod did exactly that and the pacing of the game feels sooo much better to me it's almost unreal, it's configurable but the default settings shortened the 21 days/season (84 days/year) of vanilla to 7 days/season (28 days/year) and the pacing is awesome, dynastic play is finally viable without passing too fast, i can actually enjoy my character and see him gets old, his siblings come to age and become my companions/lords and then play with his children by around mid-late game instead of conquering the entire known world before my first child even gets to puberty lol
 
Just to update this thread, @Duh_TaleWorlds has said on this issue:-
There is an open ticket for it. I suspect it will be part of either 1.6.1 or 1.6.2. Of course, the only true and reliable answer is SoonTM.

If you see this Duh, thanks for the update. If you don't mind I have two related questions if you're able to answer:-
  • Can you tell us what death % chance you have have settled on (or think will be settled on)? My gut instinct from day 1 was that it would need to be reduced down to about ~2%, but obviously I don't have access to months of data.
  • Will the death % chance be the same in in both player battles and AI vs AI battles? i.e no artificial difficulty by having the death % chance higher in player battles (immersion breaking)...
Thanks!
 
Just to update this thread, @Duh_TaleWorlds has said on this issue:-


If you see this Duh, thanks for the update. If you don't mind I have two related questions if you're able to answer:-
  • Can you tell us what death % chance you have have settled on (or think will be settled on)? My gut instinct from day 1 was that it would need to be reduced down to about ~2%, but obviously I don't have access to months of data.
  • Will the death % chance be the same in in both player battles and AI vs AI battles? i.e no artificial difficulty by having the death % chance higher in player battles (immersion breaking)...
Thanks!
To my knowledge, the desired death count is ~4-5/ year at this point. However, there will likely need to be balancing over time since missions may not behave as expected.
 

cyberonn

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
To my knowledge, the desired death count is ~4-5/ year at this point. However, there will likely need to be balancing over time since missions may not behave as expected.
Does TW have any plans to make lords escape from a battle that is not going well? Not only it makes sense for it to be this way but it would also lessen the amount of deaths of the lords in missions. It would add field battles more strategic depth because we can try to circle the enemy to not let them escape. And if an animation of surrender could be added, enemies that are circled in and acknowledged that they have lost the battle, they can put their weapons down and surrender to not die for a lost cause. Lords could surrender as well if they think that there is no escape. Lords with valor and honor can fight until they get neutralized but not all of them should do it like this.

Generally, Lords should manage the battle from afar and if they understand that they are going to lose the battle, they should take all their fast elite troops with them so that they won't be caught by the same party again and they can escape, leaving the loot and the expendable soldiers behind.

And if you can let us do this for ourselves with not just a "try to escape" button but with a chance to escape in a mission, taking all our horsemen with us and leave the footsoldiers, that would be amazing.

With this system, since Lords won't lose all their army, they could come back to the action quicker. The outcome of the battles wouldn't be all the same, sometimes you get the Lord as a prisoner and sometimes you cannot. Strategy of the field battles would be deeper. Game might be more balanced because lords could replenish their party quicker, and they wouldn't die at the current rate which is too high.

I know TW doesn't have a plan like this, don't mind me asking at first but please think about this.This seems to fix so many things.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
Does TW have any plans to make lords escape from a battle that is not going well? Not only it makes sense for it to be this way but it would also lessen the amount of deaths of the lords in missions.
They already do in 1.5.10 and 1.6.0. Even in utter curbstomp battles where I slaughter the other army 50:1 there are usually one or two lords who escape. Closer battles, something like half make it out.
 

Bovice

Recruit
Completely agree, this is the singular issue preventing me from firing up a new campaign. Realizing my play through was ultimately doomed due to lord extinction, really killed my motivation to continue. I hope it gets adjusted soon.
 
Completely agree, this is the singular issue preventing me from firing up a new campaign. Realizing my play through was ultimately doomed due to lord extinction, really killed my motivation to continue. I hope it gets adjusted soon.
Playing 1.6 i am t3 and part of a kingdom had about 15 battles with Lords apart of my Army and no one has died yet. so there has been some changes
 

cyberonn

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
They already do in 1.5.10 and 1.6.0. Even in utter curbstomp battles where I slaughter the other army 50:1 there are usually one or two lords who escape. Closer battles, something like half make it out.
Hmm thanks for pointing that out. I didn’t know that since I haven’t played the game since 1.5.3. But do they escape in the mission too or do they escape like in Warband where you kill the Lord with your own hands and they still somehow escape. If it is like the second one, then it won’t help the high noble death ratio for missions. They shouldn’t get knocked out too. And they should escape taking some troop with them and we should be able to see them on the map escaping after the battle.
 

cyberonn

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
This. Though quite pointless since they suffer a great speed penalty and you catch them to battle again. It happens in 1.5.9 as well.
They should leave their burden behind and escape with the fastest troops. If that speed penalty still affects them badly, maybe that penalty can be removed and maybe a speed bonus could be implemented because of the fear factor.
 

Lesbosisles

Knight
@Duh_TaleWorlds, I remember you mentioning that death in simulated battles (AI vs AI) will probably be included with the 1.6.1 or 1.6.2, but now I can't find your message about it.

Was that a dream, or did you really told that? :grin:
 
To my knowledge, the desired death count is ~4-5/ year at this point. However, there will likely need to be balancing over time since missions may not behave as expected.
Just to add my 2 cents, as someone whose played a lot of Warband with mods that give a chance for death anything above around 2% becomes very punishing and imho it leaves factions devastated over time. While 4-5% doesn't seem like a lot for one battle when there are 100's-1000's of battles a year it definitely takes a toll, but I guess we'll see how it plays out. Any time frame on when this will happen?
 

Tryvenyal

Sergeant at Arms
Does TW have any plans to make lords escape from a battle that is not going well?
An requirement for them to escape the battle is that they still stand up - which lords very rarely do after first few clashes.

1. Make AI lords not commanded by the player be alot more carefull.
2. Disable death in battle for all first X years. No benefit in killing of lords and famillies while player hunts Looters...(Mainly to protect familly-members and companions during such battles)
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
4-5 refers to total combat deaths / year in Calradia. Having said that, recent tweaks put it closer to 5-10.
Good i think 5-10 yearly will be a good balance, although have you guys addressed the need for more children at the start of the game so overall adult population doesn't drop too drastically in the first 18 years?
  • We need a lot more pregenerated kids in the game, spaced out so they dont all become adults at once. I would suggest at least another 100. Even with a 2% death rate we are looking at between 182-270 total pop after 18 years.
  • The birthrate should be around 0.25 kids/clan/year or another way to think of it the kids need to come of age (18 years old) at a rate of 0.25/clan/year. This will help keep the population from growing to much even when considering the death rates.
  • With the assumption/requirement of at least 100 more starter kids and a growth rate of 0.25 kids/clan/year, I think the best death rate to help keep a small natural growth in population is 3%. If you look at the net growth table you can see 3% death rate has a net growth of 6 new adults a year, which if the population doesn't drop drastically thanks to the new 100 starter kids in the first 18 years would keep the total world population about 20% bigger than it started 40 years ago.
  • Without those additions I would suggest bumping it down to 1% for 1.5.6 so population doesnt drop to far down after 18 years, although the potential growth of the overall population could be a problem long term.
Some context for the above
1% = 4 deaths a year
2% = 8 deaths a year
3% = 12 deaths a year

I did this analysis during 1.5.5 so if any big population changes have happened it might not be as accurate.
 
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